List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

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Grrr said:
The difference between Richmond and Hawthorn from memory, was that the Hawks actively traded out players whereas Richmond's have all been wanted players who want out.
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We let our older players go. Hill was really the only young player we wanted to keep but didnt.

Rioli and Bolton are easily young enough to still be around when the Tigers can rise again.

2 years ago Hawthorn were still on the downward part of our 10 year rebuild. BF was 100% sure of this.

And Im sure you remember 2015 and where the Tigers were going. Even 2016.
 
HairyO said:
We let our older players go. Hill was really the only young player we wanted to keep but didnt.

Rioli and Bolton are easily young enough to still be around when the Tigers can rise again.

2 years ago Hawthorn were still on the downward part of our 10 year rebuild. BF was 100% sure of this.

And Im sure you remember 2015 and where the Tigers were going. Even 2016.
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2016 we hit rock bottom, 13th after 5th in 2015, sack Hardwick etc.
 

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powerrrrrrrrrrrr said:
I think it’s going to fail with a North like fallout coming.

You still need some good senior bodies around to support all these young guys. It’s all well and good having a handful of top picks, however first you need them to all come on well and develop but then they need support around them.

They’re cutting too deep IMO alongside all their retirements. In for a world of pain for a few years.
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A lot of it, if it all happens, doesn't seem to be them cutting. It seems to be as much players wanting out now the success period is over. Melbourne seem to be in a similar position, though the rat-run is smaller and one or two have been avoided.

Losing players that way is a concern in its own way, although Richmond are a big club and the extra resources should avoid the hell with years still to run at North. (I say that, but Carlton also went through a couple of generations of players before becoming competitive again and had the resources to avoid it.)
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Richmond are setting themselves up for a decade or longer of mediocrity. You can't cut this deep and develop a winning culture again. Blue struggled through a decade of false dawns because of it.

I absolutely love it. Keen for Richmond to bounce between the Spoon and 9th until the 2040's.
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Difference being is we still have premiership players, nank, broad, Vlaustin, balta, lynch, Mcintosh, Prestia, short, plus experienced players like taranto and hopper to help guide the kids. What successful players from a winning culture did the blues have besides Judd? We also have Blair Hartley and Francis Jackson who were the architects of the dynasty, again who did Carlton have?
You are comparing a recent dynasty club with a club who has been in the wilderness for 30 years.
 
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powerrrrrrrrrrrr said:
I think it’s going to fail with a North like fallout coming.

You still need some good senior bodies around to support all these young guys. It’s all well and good having a handful of top picks, however first you need them to all come on well and develop but then they need support around them.

They’re cutting too deep IMO alongside all their retirements. In for a world of pain for a few years.
Click to expand...

yep and mark neeld's melbourne as well. has it ever worked?
 
Unlike Hawthorn, Richmond has a really poor history at the draft. The last time they had a draft hand like they'll have in 2024 they drafted;

ND:

1. Brett Deledio
4. Richard Tambling
12. Danny Meyer
16. Adam Pattison
20. Dean Polo
36. Luke McGuane
52. Dean Limbach
65. Mark Graham

PSD:
1. Trent Knobel
6. Ty Zantuck

Rookie:
1. Will Thursfield


I say let them 'tank' all they want
 
Wojcinski said:
Unlike Hawthorn, Richmond has a really poor history at the draft. The last time they had a draft hand like they'll have in 2024 they drafted;

ND:

1. Brett Deledio
4. Richard Tambling
12. Danny Meyer
16. Adam Pattison
20. Dean Polo
36. Luke McGuane
52. Dean Limbach
65. Mark Graham

PSD:
1. Trent Knobel
6. Ty Zantuck

Rookie:
1. Will Thursfield


I say let them 'tank' all they want
Click to expand...

I won't deny we haven't had the strongest draft history, but that draft happened 20 years ago. Do you really think that's the same Richmond now?
 
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Grrr said:
The difference between Richmond and Hawthorn from memory, was that the Hawks actively traded out players whereas Richmond's have all been wanted players who want out.
Click to expand...
Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O’Meara were both contracted, and traded for draft picks rather than being held to their contract.

Richmond are doing the exact same thing with Rioli and Bolton.
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O’Meara were both contracted, and traded for draft picks rather than being held to their contract.

Richmond are doing the exact same thing with Rioli and Bolton.
Click to expand...

Hawthorn didn't want them though, and gave them away for nothing. They had little to no value.

Richmond are going to get multiple first round picks for Rioli and Bolton. Both of them have tremendous value right now.
 
Rich01 said:
Probably all the media.
They work on a can’t lose policy.
Suggest clubs to run a certain path. Criticise them if they don’t, or if they do.

The fact that Baker and Graham were offered considerable long term contracts to stay, and Rioli and Bolton were on plump long term deals but decided to jump ship, will be totally forgotten and be all the clubs fault come mid season.
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The club could put up a fight with contracted players, Rioli and Bolton. The reigning B&F and the player touted as successor to Dusty.
 

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FlowersByIrene said:
Richmond are setting themselves up for a decade or longer of mediocrity. You can't cut this deep and develop a winning culture again. Blue struggled through a decade of false dawns because of it.

I absolutely love it. Keen for Richmond to bounce between the Spoon and 9th until the 2040's.
Click to expand...
Whatever we do it will be criticized in the media anyway, if we cut deep that's what they say if we keep a few experienced players around, they will say we haven't committed fully, it's all just nonsense.
 
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  • #65
adock said:
Hawthorn didn't want them though, and gave them away for nothing. They had little to no value.

Richmond are going to get multiple first round picks for Rioli and Bolton. Both of them have tremendous value right now.
Click to expand...
Lloyd Meek ain’t nothing. Cooper Stephens might have turned out to be nothing, but we also used the pick from Mitchell’s trade to trade up for Weddle.

Both Masterstrokes.
 
dean33 said:
Difference being is we still have premiership players, nank, broad, Vlaustin, balta, lynch, Mcintosh, Prestia, short, plus experienced players like taranto and hopper to help guide the kids. What successful players from a winning culture did the blues have besides Judd? We also have Blair Hartley and Francis Jackson who were the architects of the dynasty, again who did Carlton have?
You are comparing a recent dynasty club with a club who has been in the wilderness for 30 years.
Click to expand...
The not so difference is that none of those players outside of Nank Balra and Lynch are any good.
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
Lloyd Meek ain’t nothing. Cooper Stephens might have turned out to be nothing, but we also used the pick from Mitchell’s trade to trade up for Weddle.

Both Masterstrokes.
Click to expand...

The sneaky thing the Hawks have done is bring in 10 players from rival clubs, several of whom weren't automatic best 22 at their previous teams, so cheap.

2017 Impey
2018 Scrimshaw
2019 Frost
2022 Amon, Meek
2023 Chol, D'Ambrosio, Ginnivan
2024 Battle, Barrass?

These are all such players likely be be entrenched in the best 22 in 2025. And players they recruited 5,6,7 years ago who didn't necessarily look world beaters at times, Impey, Scrimshaw, Frost, they just perservered with. Barrass is the only one out of all these players that will have cost anything substantial in terms of draft picks.

So what on the face of it looks like a rapid rebuild through the draft is actually:

Two players, Sicily and Hardwick sort of left over from the previous era.

The above 10 players brought in mainly on the cheap from other clubs.

And only 11 players the Hawks have drafted since about 2016 filling out the likely best 23 - Lewis, Nash, Worpel, Jiath, Moore, Day, Newcombe, MacDonald, MacKenzie, Weddle, Watson, with Dear thereabouts as well(guessing 2 of Dear, Chol, Lewis will be best 23.)

A very interesting part of the build towards this team is all of the following were in the team when it looked to be going nowhere and people(including me) were saying the youth wasn't much good....Impey, Scrimshaw, Frost, Lewis, Worpel, Moore, Sicily, Hardwick.

I am sure Hawks supporters will agree their team has it all to prove yet, but this year at least they showed they are capable of very strong and consistent performance.

The highlighted players above, Richmond will likely have players 27 or under of equivalent future value on the list already.

Hopper, Taranto, Lefau*, Miller, Balta, Mansell, Ross, Ralphsmith, M Rioli, Banks, Gibcus, Brown, Campbell is 13 players all trending ok to be best 23 players in a few years from now. Some will drop off, others already on the list will emerge. So you can see Richmond trying to follow a vaguely similar path, though maybe with less recruits from other clubs. A similar amount of free agents, maybe 1-2 exra high cost mature recruits, and it appears the likelihood of several very high end draft picks over the next 3 drafts, and a load of other later rd 1 picks.

To me though the most interesting part of the Hawks build, and something that is open to any club to replicate that has cap space and first team opportunities, is the use of players recruited from other clubs to fill out almost half the team.
 
Handsuper47 said:
I won't deny we haven't had the strongest draft history, but that draft happened 20 years ago. Do you really think that's the same Richmond now?
Click to expand...

It’s wishful thinking on his part.

He’s also forgetting we drafted, Dusty, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin with 1st round picks and Grimes was from the rookie draft.

Unlike Geelong, Richmond and Hawks didn’t need f/s help to get it done. 2 dynasties built legit.
 

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List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

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