List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

[geelong_crazy26]

The other consideration for West Coast is the fact 9 of the top 10 players on most draft boards are Victorians.

Maybe they're planning to pick up a couple of non-Victorians (or a maximum of one Victorian) with their 12 and 14 picks, to mitigate the go home risk factor?

Didn’t seem to bother them picking up Harley Reid.

This is only a consideration when the players down the list are of similar caliber

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Everyone bar you seems to see 2 things here.

1. Eagles did not get adequate return for pick 3 given the calibre of player available at pick 3, &
2. Carlton paid a king's ransom(pick 12 + f1 + f2 + 23 game player i 2024 season) to trade up to get pick 3, and everyone including Carlton believes they did well precisely because they know the types of players available at pick 3.

It is only you who does not believe there are elite players available in the top tier of the draft. Most draft assessors seem to think that top tier runs 5 deep at the very least.

Carlton paid a kings ransom?? Nobody at all has said that, quite the opposite actually. 12+14 + a potential delistee as steak knives for pick 3 most clubs would do in a heart beat.

WCE list management didn’t see much value in pick 3 compared to who was available at 12+14, which is why they happily traded back. They obviously would have heavily done their homework on the top draftees all season as well given their ladder position, more so than Carlton.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Marty Clarke made an error with how real the prospect of the Hawks getting impatient on the deal with Barass. He should have kept them engaged and probably conceded and agreed to the deal.
Pyke held a press conference about the decision…dont often see that.

Where I’d be happy to say WC did completely bugger it up is…if as it’s been said plenty of times this is a very even draft.
If Bo Allen gets taken before WC’s pick that is a fail in my view.
U/18 WA Captain 191 genuine elite left sided athlete. Mid/intercept defender.
He looks a beauty.

He would’ve been identified a long way out and I expected him to go to WC.
I doubt very much he’ll be there after Saints picks.

The bolded is the obvious reason they happily traded back this season. If there was an elite bunch at the top end they wouldn’t have entertained missing out on one.

It’s supposed to be an incredibly even crop. Even seen the potential no1 pick as low as pick 7 on some phantom lists (Sam lailor) which gives you an idea how even the bunch is. You could pick any of them and there isn’t much in it probably the first 20 picks.

It’s not the sort of draft you are going to get a riewoldt judd Martin from

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Let’s see how it pans out on draft night.
But I’d be happier with Carltons hand if they pick Smith rather than West Coast with a potential combo of Allan and Baker.

Lucky for Richmond and their rebuild (which is the topic of this thread that some oppo fans keep forgetting), they have a glut of picks in the early, mid and late stages of the first round of this draft to help with their list build. A great position in a high quality draft to launch again.

It is a good position to be in for an even spread deep draft, more assurance the picks will probably be decent players. Despite the top end lacking standouts elites, you still know you are getting good players.

Jagga smith probably has one of the lowest ceilings, but you know from day1 what you are getting and will get across 250+ games. Bo Allen has more upside than jagga smith

 

[Cdog71]

It’s not the sort of draft you are going to get a riewoldt judd Martin from

Lachie Neale was pick 53

The cream will rise to the top in a few years and we’ll see

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The bolded is the obvious reason they happily traded back this season. If there was an elite bunch at the top end they wouldn’t have entertained missing out on one.

It’s supposed to be an incredibly even crop. Even seen the potential no1 pick as low as pick 7 on some phantom lists (Sam lailor) which gives you an idea how even the bunch is. You could pick any of them and there isn’t much in it probably the first 20 picks.

It’s not the sort of draft you are going to get a riewoldt judd Martin from

Well if you are correct and Eagles are all over it, and the players available for picks in the teens are the same level as players available with the top 6-8 picks.....then Liam Baker is at least as good as any player at the top end of the draft. Because they used a mid teens pick to recruit Baker.

So let's see how your prediction that Liam Baker is better than the first 8 picks in this draft goes. We will all watch with interest now to see how your logic stands up. My wild guess is not very well.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Well if you are correct and Eagles are all over it, and the players available for picks in the teens are the same level as players available with the top 6-8 picks.....then Liam Baker is at least as good as any player at the top end of the draft. Because they used a mid teens pick to recruit Baker.

So let's see how your prediction that Liam Baker is better than the first 8 picks in this draft goes. We will all watch with interest now to see how your logic stands up. My wild guess is not very well.

I think most are aware Richmond ran off with highway robbery getting pick 14 for baker. Probably a pick around 30 was more reflective.. but contracted and two clubs keen. Got maximal value. Did well on that one.

Bailey smith is clearly better than liam baker yet we gave up less. The market is not always fair value in trades

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I think most are aware Richmond ran off with highway robbery getting pick 14 for baker. Probably a pick around 30 was more reflective.. but contracted and two clubs keen. Got maximal value. Did well on that one.

Bailey smith is clearly better than liam baker yet we gave up less. The market is not always fair value in trades

So Eagles didn't know what they were doing now?

According to you, the Eagles:

1 are all over the draft
2 they rate picks in the teens worth as much as pick 3
3 & also they rate a pick in the teens worth less than Liam Baker, but
4 according to you Baker is worth pick 30.

The trouble is, they can't all be true. So which part is wrong?

 

[Freddy Swift]

I think most are aware Richmond ran off with highway robbery getting pick 14 for baker. Probably a pick around 30 was more reflective.. but contracted and two clubs keen. Got maximal value. Did well on that one.

Bailey smith is clearly better than liam baker yet we gave up less. The market is not always fair value in trades

Actually I think Baker was OOC, it was Rioli and Bolton who were contracted. Nevertheless I think we did well to get pick 14. It was Geelong who got away with highway robbery getting Smith for only pick 17.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Actually I think Baker was OOC, it was Rioli and Bolton who were contracted. Nevertheless I think we did well to get pick 14. It was Geelong who got away with highway robbery getting Smith for only pick 17.

Smith is a much better player than baker and is also younger. Not sure how you think getting him for 19 was highway robbery but getting 14 for baker wasn’t.

It’s a compliment to your recruiting team btw. They did well squeezing good value out of those trades.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

So Eagles didn't know what they were doing now?

According to you, the Eagles:

1 are all over the draft
2 they rate picks in the teens worth as much as pick 3
3 & also they rate a pick in the teens worth less than Liam Baker, but
4 according to you Baker is worth pick 30.

The trouble is, they can't all be true. So which part is wrong?

You are very black and white and a bit lost with your logics. Your answer is in my previous post which was getting at the point about trades not always being fair value or reflective of a players worth.

I think it would be pretty unanimous that Bailey smith is a better player than Liam baker, yet one was traded for pick 19 and the other pick 14.

You did very well to get pick 14, was overs in the deal.

If you think Liam baker is worth the same as the player at pick 14 ( you probably think the draft is not very good then?) but I give the players available at 14 a bit more credit than that

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You are very black and white and a bit lost with your logics. Your answer is in my previous post which was getting at the point about trades not always being fair value or reflective of a players worth.

I think it would be pretty unanimous that Bailey smith is a better player than Liam baker, yet one was traded for pick 19 and the other pick 14.

You did very well to get pick 14, was overs in the deal.

If you think Liam baker is worth the same as the player at pick 14 ( you probably think the draft is not very good then?) but I give the players available at 14 a bit more credit than that

Richmond got a decent deal for Baker.

In my estimation Smith is a more valuable player than Baker.

But Eagles were not forced to trade for Baker. They chose to give up pick 14 for him. So nowt has changed from my previous post. Your position doesn't add up. Following your posts, you claim to believe the 4 things I stated. But some of them are mutually exclusive. People will be able to see clearly ow your positions do not add up. Let's just post the 4 things you claim to believe again:

According to you, the Eagles:

1 are all over the draft
2 they rate picks in the teens worth as much as pick 3
3 & also they rate a pick in the teens worth less than Liam Baker, but
4 according to you Baker is worth pick 30.

The trouble is, they can't all be true. So which part is wrong?


You keep posting without clearing it up, I will just keep posting this.

 

[Fadge]

Didn’t seem to bother them picking up Harley Reid.

This is only a consideration when the players down the list are of similar caliber

There are no Harley Reid's in this draft.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Smith is a much better player than baker and is also younger. Not sure how you think getting him for 19 was highway robbery but getting 14 for baker wasn’t.

It’s a compliment to your recruiting team btw. They did well squeezing good value out of those trades.

No you misunderstood me. I agree with you that pick 14 for Baker was a very, very good deal for us. More than I thought we’d get.

By the same token, Geelong getting Smith for 17 was a steal. Smith was worth much more than that in my opinion.

 

[bzparkes]

Marty Clarke made an error with how real the prospect of the Hawks getting impatient on the deal with Barass. He should have kept them engaged and probably conceded and agreed to the deal.
Pyke held a press conference about the decision…dont often see that.

Where I’d be happy to say WC did completely bugger it up is…if as it’s been said plenty of times this is a very even draft.
If Bo Allen gets taken before WC’s pick that is a fail in my view.
U/18 WA Captain 191 genuine elite left sided athlete. Mid/intercept defender.
He looks a beauty.

He would’ve been identified a long way out and I expected him to go to WC.
I doubt very much he’ll be there after Saints picks.

2 things.

1- if we did the initial trade with Hawthorn, we don't get the 2 extra picks next year, which has a couple of top end WA talents(Rodrigues/Curtin) and we also have a Father son and an academy players, both currently projecting as second round picks.

2- this assumption that WCE would be wanting to get Allen because he's from WA is getting old. It's lazy journalism from footy media to constantly link WCE to the highest rated WA players, which seems to happen every draft despite WCE seemingly favouring Vic talent more often in the first round.

WCE are reportedly interested in Travaglia, Lindsay or Hynes, although I'm sure Allen will get looked at if those 3 are taken early and he's still on the board.

Our recruiting manager is based in Adelaide and our list manager is in Victoria.

 

[bzparkes]

Carlton paid a kings ransom?? Nobody at all has said that, quite the opposite actually. 12+14 + a potential delistee as steak knives for pick 3 most clubs would do in a heart beat.

WCE list management didn’t see much value in pick 3 compared to who was available at 12+14, which is why they happily traded back. They obviously would have heavily done their homework on the top draftees all season as well given their ladder position, more so than Carlton.

Carlton indeed paid up a reasonable amount to move up but they have the luxury of 2 father sons in this draft, which is why the trade made sense for them.

If the Camporeale twins weren't available, I doubt they do the trade.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Carlton indeed paid up a reasonable amount to move up but they have the luxury of 2 father sons in this draft, which is why the trade made sense for them.

If the Camporeale twins weren't available, I doubt they do the trade.

The general consensus was anger amongst WCE fans and joy amongst Carlton fans. Not sure how you believe they paid up a reasonable amount. This was certainly not your fan bases reaction. Perhaps you simply see it differently.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Richmond got a decent deal for Baker.

In my estimation Smith is a more valuable player than Baker.

But Eagles were not forced to trade for Baker. They chose to give up pick 14 for him. So nowt has changed from my previous post. Your position doesn't add up. Following your posts, you claim to believe the 4 things I stated. But some of them are mutually exclusive. People will be able to see clearly ow your positions do not add up. Let's just post the 4 things you claim to believe again:

According to you, the Eagles:

1 are all over the draft
2 they rate picks in the teens worth as much as pick 3
3 & also they rate a pick in the teens worth less than Liam Baker, but
4 according to you Baker is worth pick 30.

The trouble is, they can't all be true. So which part is wrong?


You keep posting without clearing it up, I will just keep posting this.

What players actually get traded for and their worth are two different things. I have said this like 4 times already. Hence the discrepancy with smith and baker pick trades as an example.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

There are no Harley Reid's in this draft.

There are no generational talents in this pool or elites

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What players actually get traded for and their worth are two different things. I have said this like 4 times already. Hence the discrepancy with smith and baker pick trades as an example.

This further nonsense from you changes nothing. No club ever gets forced to hand over any pick for any player. Your point would only ever be valid for the club on the other side of the transaction, ie the club losing the player. Eg Bulldogs with B Smith being forced to accept a below value offer by the situation.

So Eagles clearly thought Baker was worth more than pick 14. And given you have said already you believe that picks in the teens are worth no less than the top few picks in the draft, & you also believe Eagles conduct confirms this, & you believe Eagles are all over the relative values of draft picks, this means by extension you believe players picked in the top 8 are worth no more than Baker - who you say is worth pick 30.

I am afraid everybody can see all of these things you believe can't be true as some are mutually exclusive. So people can see you are just making up rubbish. Which is good, because you are a class A dickhead. So keep going.

 

[bzparkes]

The general consensus was anger amongst WCE fans and joy amongst Carlton fans. Not sure how you believe they paid up a reasonable amount. This was certainly not your fan bases reaction. Perhaps you simply see it differently.

Well, I'm talking about Carlton's stance on the trade, not WCE's.

Also, WCE reportedly tried trading with GWS first, for 15 & 16(?) and they knocked it back, so the Carlton trade was better in that regard.

Don't forget that Carlton also gave up their future first and second to get pick 14 to begin with, it's not like they already had 2 first rounders. They took themselves out of the first 2 rounds next year and gave up their first rounder this year just to get pick 3 and 2x fourth rounders.

Again, that's a lot to give up, simply to get pick 3 in this draft but again, they have the luxury of doing this because they have the Camporeale twins this year.

Be interesting to see what they do next year though.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This further nonsense from you changes nothing. No club ever gets forced to hand over any pick for any player. Your point would only ever be valid for the club on the other side of the transaction, ie the club losing the player. Eg Bulldogs with B Smith being forced to accept a below value offer by the situation.

So Eagles clearly thought Baker was worth more than pick 14. And given you have said already you believe that picks in the teens are worth no less than the top few picks in the draft, & you also believe Eagles conduct confirms this, & you believe Eagles are all over the relative values of draft picks, this means by extension you believe players picked in the top 8 are worth no more than Baker - who you say is worth pick 30.

I am afraid everybody can see all of these things you believe can't be true as some are mutually exclusive. So people can see you are just making up rubbish. Which is good, because you are a class A dickhead. So keep going.

I have no idea what you are trying to ramble on about in another failed attempt to sound intellectual, but I will say it again in a different way for you. Trades don’t always equal a players value. Many factors come into it. If baker had nominated geelong you probably would have ended up with a future second rounder and not a penny more. He happened to nominate WCE while also having freo in the wings who he would have been happy with if things fell over.

I can probably name ten clubs who would have given far les for baker, and also ten clubs who would have given a lot more for smith.

A lot of factors play into what a player is traded for, which you are struggling with and trying to make black and white.

Not sure how else to simplify this for you

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I have no idea what you are trying to ramble on about in another failed attempt to sound intellectual, but I will say it again in a different way for you. Trades don’t always equal a players value. Many factors come into it. If baker had nominated geelong you probably would have ended up with a future second rounder and not a penny more. He happened to nominate WCE while also having freo in the wings who he would have been happy with if things fell over.

I can probably name ten clubs who would have given far les for baker, and also ten clubs who would have given a lot more for smith.

A lot of factors play into what a player is traded for, which you are struggling with and trying to make black and white.

Not sure how else to simplify this for you

Lol I can just picture the Eagles recruitment team meeting now, on planet Geelong Crazy....

Recruiter A: You wouldn't believe it, the Tigers want pick 14 for Baker. Geelong Crazy reckons he is only worth pick 30 & that pick 14 in this draft is worth the same as pick 3. So paying pick 14 for Baker is like paying pick 3 for a player worth pick 30.

List Manager: I have heard Geelong Crazy also believes it is not black & white what you have to pay for players in trades. A lot goes into it. We don't get a choice in that so I guess we just need to give up a pick worth the same as pick 3 for a player worth pick 30.

Recruiter A: Yep, agree, we don't have any other choice whatsoever. We couldn't for eg just refuse to make the trade, impossible.

Recruiters B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, Footy Manager, CEO, Coach, Assistants A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H: Hear hear. Clearly no other choice whatsoever.

It seems you think that must be what happened GC26. If they ever cure you mate make sure you change your name to Geelong Sane 26.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Lol I can just picture the Eagles recruitment team meeting now, on planet Geelong Crazy....

Recruiter A: You wouldn't believe it, the Tigers want pick 14 for Baker. Geelong Crazy reckons he is only worth pick 30 & that pick 14 in this draft is worth the same as pick 3. So paying pick 14 for Baker is like paying pick 3 for a player worth pick 30.

List Manager: I have heard Geelong Crazy also believes it is not black & white what you have to pay for players in trades. A lot goes into it. We don't get a choice in that so I guess we just need to give up a pick worth the same as pick 3 for a player worth pick 30.

Recruiter A: Yep, agree, we don't have any other choice whatsoever. We couldn't for eg just refuse to make the trade, impossible.

Recruiters B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, Footy Manager, CEO, Coach, Assistants A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H: Hear hear. Clearly no other choice whatsoever.

It seems you think that must be what happened GC26. If they ever cure you mate make sure you change your name to Geelong Sane 26.

his trade worth went up slightly when he wanted to go back to WA and two clubs were circling. If it was only one club outright it probably would have been a bit less.

You also do realize an average player like baker being traded for pick 14 is more proof it’s an ordinary draft compared to a quality draft correct?? Not sure you have wrapped your mind around that one yet.

 

[juss]

Is it really that difficult to finish last and exit a handful of your best players who still have trade capital in exchange for more draft picks?

I'm pretty sure any club could copy that template if they really wanted to.

Agree, it's not rocket science. We'll see how it pays off over the next 3-8 years.