List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

[HayesTheChamp]

how tall is jeremy cameron again?

about 196 I think.

However, I vote for McCartin over Wright, because we need a vicious, mauling, out of the goal square type FF, because we have a host of athletic running forwards - Lee, Stanley, White and I guess you could include Siposs in that category as well. I think we've missed that dynamic since losing the G-Train along with Kosi's body and awareness collapsing after 09/10.

Obviously the way footy is played now, it seems that less teams have the big brawling key forward. However, if you still look at Tippett, Tex (although he roams up a fair bit), Hawkins etc. There still is plenty of room for one of these types of monster key forwards. I'd consider Wright or Goddard only if we were confident in getting Patton, as he'd be able to play the hulking forward role for us.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ross would be worth a pick between 30-40 IMO.

Dunell isn't worth anything. Perhaps a pick we wouldn't use/use to upgrade a rookie.

I'd much prefer to hold onto Ross unless he was involved in a trade with Carlisle or similar.

I'll be surprised if Dunell isn't delisted at the end of the year.

The suggested trade was 2 for the one pick, which would be appealing to them if they had multiple players suspended.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Ross would be worth a pick between 30-40 IMO.

Dunell isn't worth anything. Perhaps a pick we wouldn't use/use to upgrade a rookie.

I'd much prefer to hold onto Ross unless he was involved in a trade with Carlisle or similar.

I'll be surprised if Dunell isn't delisted at the end of the year.

See, Essendon might be in the position where they NEED players like Ross and Dunell in a package, over and against a 2nd drafter.

If they lose half their list, or whatever, that's TWENTY players they've got to find. Packaging a bunch of semi-seasoned players (3rd years) for a pick could be very attractive to them.

Add the romance of those two, and it might give them SOMETHING positive to tell their members!

 

[TheLastEmperor]

The suggested trade was 2 for the one pick, which would be appealing to them if they had multiple players suspended.

Yup and their value doesn't change IMO. Dunell they will get for free as a delisted FA if they want, seeing as I think he will be cut at the end of the year and Ross's value isn't going to go up the way he's been going. I hope we keep Ross anyway.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

See, Essendon might be in the position where they NEED players like Ross and Dunell in a package, over and against a 2nd drafter.

If they lose half their list, or whatever, that's TWENTY players they've got to find. Packaging a bunch of semi-seasoned players (3rd years) for a pick could be very attractive to them.

Add the romance of those two, and it might give them SOMETHING positive to tell their members!

Losing 20 players would be a unique scenario and until it happens I believe it's extremely unlikely. It would certainly cripple them though.

Either way, I cannot see any club under any situation giving a late first rounder/early second rounder for a Ross and Dunell package.

 

[Defacto]

See, Essendon might be in the position where they NEED players like Ross and Dunell in a package, over and against a 2nd drafter.

If they lose half their list, or whatever, that's TWENTY players they've got to find. Packaging a bunch of semi-seasoned players (3rd years) for a pick could be very attractive to them.

Add the romance of those two, and it might give them SOMETHING positive to tell their members!

more than 2 is a team ban, which means no more essendon

 

[VDS66]

more than 2 is a team ban, which means no more essendon

yippeee!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

more than 2 is a team ban, which means no more essendon

More than 2 means that ASADA "CAN" ban the team. That doesn't mean they WILL ban the team.
Think in terms of a cycling team where you are suspicious of all 5 or so that are in the team.

Big organisations seem to have a problem where they envision certain situations when they formulate rules, terms, conditions etc, but then apply them across the board.

 

[gringo2011]

I've thought the same way for a long time, but gradually I'm changing my mind, if we want to trade into a second first round pick, Steven is to me the only one that would be guaranteed first round trade, though we might be able to package Armitage, Gilbert, Stanley and picks to get an upgrade. The reality is that we will have to "give" to "get".

Melbourne may well be the right choice, they'll get compensation if Frawley leaves and if he doesn't their backs and forwards are pretty well set, whether we on trade that pick to get someone out of GWS (Shiel for example, who would effectively be a straight swap) or we go for one of their big boys, I don't know.

What I do know is that we need two KPF's and the better the quality they are the better for us.

Any one or even all of the following.
Steven to Melbourne for 1st Round pick
Armitage, or Gilbert plus second round pick to Sydney/GWS/GCS for 1st Round pick
Stanley plus third round pick to Port for Second round pick plus someone.

Obviously there are plenty of permutations, given how long a full list is, the only thing I am sure of is that whomever we trade it will be painfull, just go back to Hawthorn trading Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin, John Hay and Nathan Thompson, and not trading or paying overs to keep Nick Holland.

It's a mind set thing, "alea jacta est", how do we want to read it, "the die is cast" or "let the dice fly".

I just don't get why you would trade a very high level footballer for the chance of possibly recruiting a very high level footballer. We could end up with Caydn Beetham or Richard Tambling for Jack Steven. I find that too risky. You want to consolidate your list not change it for the sake of it. Armo is probably more losable as we have a few options for the in and under role going forward and he's a bit older than Jack.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I just don't get why you would trade a very high level footballer for the chance of possibly recruiting a very high level footballer. We could end up with Caydn Beetham or Richard Tambling for Jack Steven. I find that too risky. You want to consolidate your list not change it for the sake of it. Armo is probably more losable as we have a few options for the in and under role going forward and he's a bit older than Jack.

Exactly, talk of trading Steven for a pick is stupid.

 

[hayes]

Why wouldn't you trade you're only sure-fire future gun midfielder for a chance to get a future gun midfielder?

 

[gringo2011]

about 196 I think.

However, I vote for McCartin over Wright, because we need a vicious, mauling, out of the goal square type FF, because we have a host of athletic running forwards - Lee, Stanley, White and I guess you could include Siposs in that category as well. I think we've missed that dynamic since losing the G-Train along with Kosi's body and awareness collapsing after 09/10.

Obviously the way footy is played now, it seems that less teams have the big brawling key forward. However, if you still look at Tippett, Tex (although he roams up a fair bit), Hawkins etc. There still is plenty of room for one of these types of monster key forwards. I'd consider Wright or Goddard only if we were confident in getting Patton, as he'd be able to play the hulking forward role for us.

Mc Cartin for me too. I'm 6'2" and when I met Fev he was about eye to eye with me. Lockett and Barry Hall weren't much taller. I would rather a good goal kicking FF than a tall crap one.

 

[gringo2011]

about 196 I think.

However, I vote for McCartin over Wright, because we need a vicious, mauling, out of the goal square type FF, because we have a host of athletic running forwards - Lee, Stanley, White and I guess you could include Siposs in that category as well. I think we've missed that dynamic since losing the G-Train along with Kosi's body and awareness collapsing after 09/10.

Obviously the way footy is played now, it seems that less teams have the big brawling key forward. However, if you still look at Tippett, Tex (although he roams up a fair bit), Hawkins etc. There still is plenty of room for one of these types of monster key forwards. I'd consider Wright or Goddard only if we were confident in getting Patton, as he'd be able to play the hulking forward role for us.

I think Tex is only around 193 or so but nearly as wide as he is tall. Mc Cartin a similar type to me.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Why wouldn't you trade you're only sure-fire future gun midfielder for a chance to get a future gun midfielder?

Maybe we just package up the whole team for the chance of future guns?

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Jay Schulz: 193cm
Taylor Walker: 192cm
Jarryd Roughead: 193cm
Josh J Kennedy: 194cm
Jack Gunston: 193cm

..Height is overrated IMO, it doesn't matter how tall you are. If you can play football you can be a very good player no matter what size you are.

 

[Moral Decay]

I just don't get why you would trade a very high level footballer for the chance of possibly recruiting a very high level footballer. We could end up with Caydn Beetham or Richard Tambling for Jack Steven. I find that too risky. You want to consolidate your list not change it for the sake of it. Armo is probably more losable as we have a few options for the in and under role going forward and he's a bit older than Jack.

I'm not saying we should, I am saying that for us to get another first round pick we may have to consider these things, I don't like it, I don't want it, but I don't like the idea of ending up like The Bulldogs, Richmond or North either, everything comes down to the quality of who we pick or trade for and how we develop them.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm not saying we should, I am saying that for us to get another first round pick we may have to consider these things, I don't like it, I don't want it, but I don't like the idea of ending up like The Bulldogs, Richmond or North either, everything comes down to the quality of who we pick or trade for and how we develop them.

I didn't mean to sound aggressive but the guys like Jack are what you hope a high draft pick will become so defies the logic behind it. I think those other teams are just different stages of development in front of us. Bulldogs have some good young talent and a few less established stars than us probabl us in 1 or 2 years. North are knocking on the door of being a very good side - us in 3 to 4 years and Richmond thought they were better than they were and have paid for it the hard way- hopefully never like them but probably 3 to 4 years more advanced than us to.

 

[God Save Max King]

Why wouldn't you trade you're only sure-fire future gun midfielder for a chance to get a future gun midfielder?

I don't think anyone is suggesting trading Steven for a possible future gun midfielder, but the chance at a future gun key position player.

 

[HayesTheChamp]

I'm not saying we should, I am saying that for us to get another first round pick we may have to consider these things, I don't like it, I don't want it, but I don't like the idea of ending up like The Bulldogs, Richmond or North either, everything comes down to the quality of who we pick or trade for and how we develop them.

Well to be fair, we need to consider the way each team has recruited.

North have been at that awkward 12-13th or so, for the last 10 years, and have largely missed out on that absolutely elite A grade talent - Bastinac, Ziebell are B Graders at best. The best they've had is probably Cunnington/Swallow.

Richmond - Perennial 9-11th, with Cotchin and Martin being the only differences. They picked largely ready-made talents that didn't have limitless potential (Dusty is probably the most dynamic out of all of their draftees), i.e. Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin etc.

Bulldogs - I'd say they have focused far too much on drafting midfielders, with not enough KPP. Although I'd say part of the blame could be given to rebuilding at a bad time when GCS and GWS nabbed all the elite KPP. They're absolutely crying out for a gun KPF, like McCartin, Boyd or Patton (might've had a difference result with a gun KPF today against Freo).

Although I am fairly biased as a Saints supporter, I'd say we're in good shape for the following reasons:

1) We're rebuilding during a period of proper drafts. No mini drafts or draft concessions.

2) Although we specifically have a lack of elite players, we have a solid spread of youngsters with significant talent who, as long as they fulfill their potential, can reach B-grade level at a minimum. i.e. Webster, Wright, Newnes, Curren, Saunders etc.

3) In term's of a list perspective, we've managed to capture significant ruck stocks, which we can eventually move to improve either a) our position in the draft, or b) bring in a mixture of improved picks and a player that suits our needs.

4) We have seemingly, at this point, nailed 2013's draft and our rookie listed players (barring Minch), all look to be highly serviceable players at minimum.

5) We have a much improved organisational, management and leadership structure within the club, headlined by Finnis, along with a solid recruitment team. Not to mention Richo.

6) We have gaps in terms of elite KPFs and elite outside mids, which should be remedied in part across this year's draft and trading period.

Although it'll be a rough couple of years, we'll be fine, happy with how the rebuild is going thus far.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I don't think anyone is suggesting trading Steven for a possible future gun midfielder, but the chance at a future gun key position player.

Which is still stupid that future KPP could turn out a Mitch Thorp or Beau Dowler while Jack Steven is a proven star and our only real proven midfielder under 25.

I hope our club aren't this stupid.

 

[hayes]

I don't think anyone is suggesting trading Steven for a possible future gun midfielder, but the chance at a future gun key position player.

Either way it makes absolutely no sense to me. For a tall is even riskier.

 

[Saints_MarchingIn]

Maybe GWS will take wright then play wright and boyd as there ruckmen 50/50

 

[Defacto]

i think we have to let go of this idea of getting the next CHF or nick reiwoldt in this draft

we just need to get the best player. if its a third tall. then so be it.

whats the deal with burton whos available next year?

 

[aussierulesrules]

6) We have gaps in terms of elite KPFs and elite outside mids, which should be remedied in part across this year's draft and trading period.

Lots of talk that we need to address our "outside mids", going forward, but I would have thought that when you take into account that Eli looks ideally suited to that role long term, with his speed, skills and big tank, that Jack Newnes likewise looks ideally suited to it and has been groomed for it, that Jimmy Webster has all the attributes you'd be looking for to play wing and that others could also be good at it down the track (eg. Acres, Billings, Wright, Saunders, Savage, Murdoch, Markworth) I wouldn't have thought we were exactly barren as far as that part of our future team goes. In fact, we could be a fairly long way from it.

Sure we could do with a Lachie Whitfield, Stephen Hill or Josh Kelly coming through, who couldn't, but I wouldn't have thought it was any more of an area we need to get more pure class and talent into than any other area of our list.

Regardless, it looks like next year's draft could have lot of midfield class at the pointy end. Keep on hearing name after name of those who are performing well as "bottom-agers" this year, like Darcy Parish and Darcy Tucker, who apparently played very well for Vic Country a couple of weeks ago and Rhys Mathieson, who reportedly had 31 possies for the same team yesterday (all those 3 are from the footy factory at Geelong Falcons, BTW, so we'll get a really good look at them while we watch Goddard and McCartin this year!).

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Lots of talk that we need to address our "outside mids", going forward, but I would have thought that when you take into account that Eli looks ideally suited to that role long term, with his speed, skills and big tank, that Jack Newnes likewise looks ideally suited to it and has been groomed for it, that Jimmy Webster has all the attributes you'd be looking for to play wing and that others could also be good at it down the track (eg. Acres, Billings, Wright, Saunders, Savage, Murdoch, Markworth) I wouldn't have thought we were exactly barren as far as that part of our future team goes. In fact, we could be a fairly long way from it.

Sure we could do with a Lachie Whitfield, Stephen Hill or Josh Kelly coming through, who couldn't, but I wouldn't have thought it was any more of an area we need to get more pure class and talent into than any other area of our list.

That outside mids talk came from Richo's mouth, said we are happy with our inside ball winners and will target support for Riewoldt and fast/skilled midfielders during the trading/drafting period.