Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[footyfan1978]

Coaching ??? You can't be serious surely ? We have a bottom 2 list in the league talent wise hands down, and it was a bloody miracle we won 7 games this year.

The foward line problems have been there for years, you can't seriously blame Bolton for that ?

Anyhow I've always been a believer that premierships should be built up from the backline first, and on that score, we're shaping up nicely going fowards (Weiters clearly tired out as the season went on) but we're still short another strong KPD to handle the Gorillas now that Jamo has retired.

But people get too caught up in the glamour of the fowards, Jeremy McGovern has probably had as good a season as Josh Kennedy as for West Coast this year, if not better, but he doesn't get anywhere near the hype or fanfare cause of his position.

We didn't lose by 100 points once this year, I call that significant progress, the next step is to try and not get belted by 10 goals plus once next year (big step i know)

Bolton is 100 right in getting our defensive structures and fundamentals set up first and foremost (and really we haven't got a potent fowardline in any case)

Very well said mate.

 

[Jabba73]

I'm reading on the Tigers board that Lids publicly outed him as being lazy and relying on talent alone.

That tells me he has zero mates at Punt road.

I'm not surprised he wants out.

Would have thought having zero mates at Punt Rd was the preferred option.

Also never been surprised anyone wants out of that place.

 

[F_therest]

I'd love to hear what Lids thinks of Yarran.

I'd like to hear Lids assessment of the Tigers leaders in finals. See if he has bothered to walk into the hall of mirrors and have a look at his own game. Always thought he was massively over rated.[/QUOTE]

You seem touchy about this as if Lids criticised a Carlton player...

My perception of Lennon is exactly what Deledio said...he seems to play like Troy Menzel, skilled and talented but isnt 'mentally tough' and doesn't have that competitive instinct to give 100% each week.

 

[footyfan1978]

Simpson has at least 3 years left in him.

Geez, I hope so, if we were updating team of the century he is basically knocking on the door to get a gig in the 22.
He is maturing well like a fine win. Just love Simmo.

 

[Styxx]

My Richmond mates call Lennon "Spud Lennon" and he's just as soft as Everitt.

SOS is miles ahead of him as a footballer.

Pass!

Your first mistake was trusting the judgement of a Richmond supporter.

 

[Azul]

I'm reading on the Tigers board that Lids publicly outed him as being lazy and relying on talent alone.

Does sound like Menz.

 

[kjr8]

No blinking, Lennons contracted until end of 2017

What do you value JOM at?

Seen far better contracted players get traded to the club of their choice. I don't think Richmond will spoil Prestia deal on the account of playing hardball over Lennon.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Matthew "Monga" Lloyd did earnestly suggest the Yarran for Gumbleton trade so make of that what you will - I believe he's a moron but that's just me.

A close friend of mine went to school with him at St Bernard's & he often said how incredibly stupid he was!

 

[Soapy V]

Coaching ??? You can't be serious surely ? We have a bottom 2 list in the league talent wise hands down, and it was a bloody miracle we won 7 games this year.

The foward line problems have been there for years, you can't seriously blame Bolton for that ?

Anyhow I've always been a believer that premierships should be built up from the backline first, and on that score, we're shaping up nicely going fowards (Weiters clearly tired out as the season went on) but we're still short another strong KPD to handle the Gorillas now that Jamo has retired.

But people get too caught up in the glamour of the fowards, Jeremy McGovern has probably had as good a season as Josh Kennedy as for West Coast this year, if not better, but he doesn't get anywhere near the hype or fanfare cause of his position.

We didn't lose by 100 points once this year, I call that significant progress, the next step is to try and not get belted by 10 goals plus once next year (big step i know)

Bolton is 100 right in getting our defensive structures and fundamentals set up first and foremost (and really we haven't got a potent fowardline in any case)

how do people think the coaching is bad? how do we know what was coached and if they are doing as instructed or if they are simply not good enough?

 

[feffs93]

"Re-signing" a player is not so simple.

The club and the player need to agree on years and $.

Given recent performance it is clear most Carlton players have been overpaid for their output - and have an exaggerated sense of their value.

Eg Levi and MK.

SOS is slowly bringing them all back to the real world.

I.E. Here is your offer - it represents reasonable value.

Accept it or we will happily trade you.

Just show Casboult a reel of his misses from 20-30ms out, that should get him back to reality.

 

[footyfan1978]

It seems that talk will sway back to the original, "We won't be shopping for any big tickets items" now.

Prestia won't be here and neither will O'Meara.
Of course we're interested and chatting to them but I can't see pen coming to paper for these guys or any other 700K+ this year.

A couple of good 400K players should serve us better in the long run.

Gee, this thread sure is motoring along with speculation

Yeah, reckon there is a fair chance in the end we pass on all of them.
Prestia is a B grade or B+ midfielder so he is good but not someone going to change us significantly for the better , especially at probably a salary likely to be more than he is truly worth. There will be plenty of midfielders to get in drafts of his ability or better in coming years.
Tom Mitchell is a gun inside mid but with Cripps already doing that for us, doubt we would want to pay big bucks for him either. O'Meara is obviously an A grade to A+ grade jet if recovered fully and still plenty young to suit where we want to go. The issue is the risk. If there is any serious doubt he will ever make it back to levels of his best we will probably pass. I think we will only get him if he comes relatively cheap but chances are some other club will get seduced and go harder. I am happy to pass if we see the risk is too great. Reality is, I got no idea. I would only listen to a true specialist that seen his knee and knows the likely long term outcome for him.

 

[BluesRule]

No blinking, Lennons contracted until end of 2017

What do you value JOM at?

Do you think Lennon's year would have decreased his trade value from last year?

JOM value depends on medical prognosis. If good he is worth a first round pick, probably our #5 and Everitt. If he is 'iffy' then we should not trade. But GCS said they want players not picks.

 

[La Dispute]

Allowing Prestia to go to Richmond is good business. He's a good player, hasn't reached his ceiling but he's commanding a big salary and Richmond are still taking shortcuts and giving in to the demands of other players.

Is Tom Mitchell a lock to go to Hawthorn? He is the best young midfielder up for trade but unfortunately we're not in the right window to acquire his services. As some have suggested, Dylan Shiel is out of contract in 2017 and is one we should be putting a lot of time into. If we're looking at getting a true readymade gun he is it.

 

[La Dispute]

People are down on Lamb but i think he can shine in the right system. Tbh I am more worried about our foward structures and the coaching.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

He's been on a list since 2010 and doesn't have enough tricks to play as a crumber. He's like Luke Breust minus the pace and innate goal sense.

I like the guy - he's a genuinely good bloke who's bought into Bolton's ethos and really worked hard but I think he'll be a transitory player. If we grab Ainsworth in the draft, he'll be struggling for a position next year.

 

[footyfan1978]

Allowing Prestia to go to Richmond is good business. He's a good player, hasn't reached his ceiling but he's commanding a big salary and Richmond are still taking shortcuts and giving in to the demands of other players.

Is Tom Mitchell a lock to go to Hawthorn? He is the best young midfielder up for trade but unfortunately we're not in the right window to acquire his services. As some have suggested, Dylan Shiel is out of contract in 2017 and is one we should be putting a lot of time into. If we're looking at getting a true readymade gun he is it.

Yep, Dylan Shiel is a big gun compared to likes of Prestia. Doubt he will be leaving GWS though.
Personally I think Tom Mitchell will be staying at Swans but if Hawks are into him big time would not surprise me given Sam Mitchell, Lewis, Burgoyne and Hodge will be all gone sooner, rather than later.

Think this is last real year for some time the Hawks will be a contender.
Can not see them keeping up with likes of GWS in coming years unless they start getting guys like Tom Mitchell to take up some of slack when Sam Mitchell retires probably after next year.

 

[Styxx]

Carlton historically has never had a massive long term key forward either (Kernahan, Vallance and Fevola the exceptions and I used the phrase "long term')

Need to build that midfield depth to also impact the scoreboard as good midfielders also chip in goals.

 

[LordLucifer]

Based on a variety of things, I'm thinking more and more that we should completely trade out of this year's draft.

Trade out all players with any sort of collateral (eg. Everitt, Casboult, Kreuzer, Graham, Tuohy) who we don't see as part of the future, get draft picks or players in return. If we get picks, trade them for more players.

Pick off some low hanging fruit at the other clubs, Horlin-Smith as an example. Do some package deals like we did with GWS and have an interest in doing again this year, bring in specific player types according to what SOS & Bolton consider acceptable. GWS, GC & Dogs may have some excess players we could use.

Throw #5 at the Dogs for Stringer and throw $600K per annum at him ..... If he is on the outer, not sure that his situation is that bad but test the water, great pick-up for the future.

If #5 is knocked back, take that one single pick to the draft and use it on whoever is considered to be the best player in it at that time.

Let's turn this off-season on its head !!!

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Carlton historically has never had a massive long term key forward either (Kernahan, Vallance and Fevola the exceptions and I used the phrase "long term')

Need to build that midfield depth to also impact the scoreboard as good midfielders also chip in goals.

Does Harry Vallence have any great grand kids floating around somewhere?

 

[Styxx]

Based on a variety of things, I'm thinking more and more that we should completely trade out of this year's draft.

Trade out all players with any sort of collateral (eg. Everitt, Casboult, Kreuzer, Graham, Tuohy) who we don't see as part of the future, get draft picks or players in return. If we get picks, trade them for more players.

Pick off some low hanging fruit at the other clubs, Horlin-Smith as an example. Do some package deals like we did with GWS and have an interest in doing again this year, bring in specific player types according to what SOS & Bolton consider acceptable. GWS, GC & Dogs may have some excess players we could use.

Throw #5 at the Dogs for Stringer and throw $600K per annum at him ..... If he is on the outer, not sure that his situation is that bad but test the water, great pick-up for the future.

If #5 is knocked back, take that one single pick to the draft and use it on whoever is considered to be the best player in it at that time.

Let's turn this off-season on its head !!!

Ah, the Pagan 2002 play.

All seriouness though, trading our players with currency for what could be considered other clubs scraps that they can part with may not be a great move.

And we need to make 3 Draft choices, no way out of that so if we can trade into a reasonable say 3 of top 25 that might be valuable.

 

[xtront16]

Yeah, reckon there is a fair chance in the end we pass on all of them.
Prestia is a B grade or B+ midfielder so he is good but not someone going to change us significantly for the better , especially at probably a salary likely to be more than he is truly worth. There will be plenty of midfielders to get in drafts of his ability or better in coming years.
Tom Mitchell is a gun inside mid but with Cripps already doing that for us, doubt we would want to pay big bucks for him either. O'Meara is obviously an A grade to A+ grade jet if recovered fully and still plenty young to suit where we want to go. The issue is the risk. If there is any serious doubt he will ever make it back to levels of his best we will probably pass. I think we will only get him if he comes relatively cheap but chances are some other club will get seduced and go harder. I am happy to pass if we see the risk is too great. Reality is, I got no idea. I would only listen to a true specialist that seen his knee and knows the likely long term outcome for him.

I asked a physio who works for a particular foot club that specific question.....his answer, no one has ever successfully played again after the patella knee injury that O'meara had.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Allowing Prestia to go to Richmond is good business. He's a good player, hasn't reached his ceiling but he's commanding a big salary and Richmond are still taking shortcuts and giving in to the demands of other players.

What is the allure of Richmond though?

 

[Styxx]

What is the allure of Richmond though?

Big pay packet, maybe a final at the end.

 

[Navara79]

What is the allure of Richmond though?

Big pay packet, maybe a final at the end.

Who can knock back the chance to play along side Shaun Grigg?

 

[footyfan1978]

Carlton historically has never had a massive long term key forward either (Kernahan, Vallance and Fevola the exceptions and I used the phrase "long term')

Need to build that midfield depth to also impact the scoreboard as good midfielders also chip in goals.

Think Horrie Clover was another but yeah, midfield and defence has tended to be the cornerstone of our premiership teams.
1970 and 72 grand final wins with Walls, Jesaulenko, Crosswell and Jackson being a star forward line probably the exceptions.

 

[Blueblood75]

I was thinking like Isaac Smith, when he was playing for Redan in the BFL, and we had our eye on him and we told him we wanted to see he playing VFL so he went to North Ballarat where everyone could see him and we took Matthew Watson at 18 and Hawthorn took Isaac Smith at 19

didn't know we were looking at Isaac back then...his old man 'Wombat' was a huge Blues fan