List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Inner Sanctum Thread. Part 3

[stavro#4]

How is GWS going to help us?

Do you think that GWS players may start taking offers from other clubs, once they win a premiership?
It could work the other way and unite GWS even more.

I believe there will be a few top liners who might move on in the event they win. JOB DONE scenario.

 

[plugger66]

I dont have a particular name to share of who the target(s) may be and after the backlash i copped during the week i wont share the names of the guys who this affects for obvious reasons.
However I am aware of phone calls made to certain players in the last 72 hours advising them to ignore particular media commentary - however to be prepared for an active October and to go away over the next 10 or so days and freshen up mentally as they might possibly have to make a tough decision. I do believe with the information i was given that there is still a big fish or two out their for us. It will be dependent on a variety of factors. But i would be confident based on what i was told to expect something exciting.

I have alot of private conversations with people who have info or know more about this then me on this board and other places. What i can say is that this year, the club has really locked down names. Carlisle was very easy to extract last year, as was Shiel. However this year it is very "Need to Know Information" and i dont think it will break until 24 hours before the trade might break.

Mentioned by a few, i was told to expect Hartlett to become a Crow if he was to leave - Didn't think he was much of a chance at the saints, Happy in SA.
Rockliff - Good Chance, dependent however on Coach and direction of the club etc.
Dusty - i wouldn't think its possible, however if he hasn't re-signed then i KNOW we will be all over him.

Also, $$$$ is not a problem. We have clubs very envious of our Cap situation. If the right player comes along, then the money is available.

I believe the club have no interest in Rocky because of the type of guy he is. Martin will obviously sign with the tigers or wait until next year. All the crap about him has obviously been set up by his manger. As for crap you got all I saw was people disagreeing with you over certain things that were said. You hear stuff and so do others. I gather not all people hear stuff from the same people so the information can be different.

 

[plugger66]

I believe there will be a few top liners who might move on in the event they win. JOB DONE scenario.

Why does it matter if they win? I don't get that at all. If they win history suggests most will stick together. Some will leave no matter what because of SC. GWS winning the GF doesn't help us at all.

 

[70s sainter]

I reckon at the end of next season if they have two flags under their belt there has to be several of their guns moving on for cash, happy with what they've achieved at gws. Could play into our hands perfectly as we ll be one of the next clubs pushing up the ladder in Melbourne with new bayside facilities as well.

 

[TheJackal]

I believe there will be a few top liners who might move on in the event they win. JOB DONE scenario.

Said this to a friend last night. Lose a prelim/gf or two then there is unfinished business with the group. Win the flag and it goes one of 2 ways, stay to create the greatest side ever or (as you said) jobs done lets go home.

 

[plugger66]

Said this to a friend last night. Lose a prelim/gf or two then there is unfinished business with the group. Win the flag and it goes one of 2 ways, stay to create the greatest side ever or (as you said) jobs done lets go home.

History suggests the complete opposite. We want SC issues which they will have anyway but more hope if you lose GF's and prelims.

 

[stavro#4]

History suggests the complete opposite. We want SC issues which they will have anyway but more hope if you lose GF's and prelims.

And that is what it is plugger. History. Players are pushing for 6 years and free agency eligibility. There is more money. This isn't the AFL you grew up with. It has become commercialized and now there is serious money involved.Players want their slice and that is why if they win and you park 800k pa infront of those kids they will come home.

 

[plugger66]

And that is what it is plugger. History. Players are pushing for 6 years and free agency eligibility. There is more money. This isn't the AFL you grew up with. It has become commercialized and now there is serious money involved.Players want their slice and that is why if they win and you park 800k pa infront of those kids they will come home.

No idea what anything you said has to do with my comment. I'm talking recent history with the Hawks, Geelong and Sydney. Players have stayed for much less than they could elsewhere. Yes they all lost one or two players but not through SC issues. Our club didn't win a flag so the players want their true value in match payments so our club got stuffed up in the SC. Wb were the same. I think that history is pretty good and pretty current so there are some facts there. Your post is just hope with no real history of it happening. I know it was a while ago but Brisbane also stuck together in a non footballing state. GWS will lose players what ever happens. Go home factor, SC issues but they wont lose more if they win. History has shown us that.

 

[Joffaboy]

Why does it matter if they win? I don't get that at all. If they win history suggests most will stick together. Some will leave no matter what because of SC. GWS winning the GF doesn't help us at all.

It is a unique situation. They are a pretend club and some players may see it that way, also with big paydays in the offing.
Just because you dont get, doesn't make it incorrect. It just means you dont get it

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[Joffaboy]

No idea what anything you said has to do with my comment. I'm talking recent history with the Hawks, Geelong and Sydney. Players have stayed for much less than they could elsewhere. Yes they all lost one or two players but not through SC issues. Our club didn't win a flag so the players want their true value in match payments so our club got stuffed up in the SC. Wb were the same. I think that history is pretty good and pretty current so there are some facts there. Your post is just hope with no real history of it happening. I know it was a while ago but Brisbane also stuck together in a non footballing state. GWS will lose players what ever happens. Go home factor, SC issues but they wont lose more if they win. History has shown us that.

Plugger we get it, you dont understand. Move on please.

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[plugger66]

It is a unique situation. They are a pretend club and some players may see it that way, also with big paydays in the offing.
Just because you dont get, doesn't make it incorrect. It just means you dont get it

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And just because someone says it will happen doesn't mean it will. Id rather go with history. Do you honestly think a contracted player will say I'm leaving now that we won the flag this year? It doesn't make sense. Lets use Rory Lobb as an example. If he leaves he will leave because he wants to go home. It wont matter if they win the flag or not. If anything I think it will help him enjoy his time away from home.

And whats a real club? Every club is a pretend club when they first start. Brisbane was a joke of club when they first started. Doesn't mean players leave. I think if you hate WB then barrack for GWS today but to think a win will lead to a walkout doesn't make sense.

 

[plugger66]

Plugger we get it, you dont understand. Move on please.

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No. But that's for your valuable comments.

 

[stavro#4]

No idea what anything you said has to do with my comment. I'm talking recent history with the Hawks, Geelong and Sydney. Players have stayed for much less than they could elsewhere. Yes they all lost one or two players but not through SC issues. Our club didn't win a flag so the players want their true value in match payments so our club got stuffed up in the SC. Wb were the same. I think that history is pretty good and pretty current so there are some facts there. Your post is just hope with no real history of it happening. I know it was a while ago but Brisbane also stuck together in a non footballing state. GWS will lose players what ever happens. Go home factor, SC issues but they wont lose more if they win. History has shown us that.

Let me make it simpler and you can join the dots. I am assuming you would be aware between the standoff between Players and Clubs/AFL around the bargaining agreement?
If so, you would be aware that players are asking for 2 main points.
A) more money from the increase in the games revenue. So larger salaries
B) They are also asking for a reduction in the minimum years you need to serve consecutively to be eligible for free agency from 8 years to 6.

Now lets focus on point B for a moment, for any decision like that to be made and taken to the AFL. The players Need a MAJORITY agreement on this.Which it appears they have. Sounds pretty good for GWS players if this is agreed to in the off season as someone like Shiel would have served 6 years by next seasons end and be eligible.After all the MAJORITY of players want to be able to discuss where they are employed.

Now Lets focus on point A, players are requesting bigger salaries. We all love pay increases, infact we would all be excited for a 10k increase. So if a Melbourne club was to offer a Melbourne born GWS player the chance to come home double his pay. He has won a flag at GWS, he can finally consider his personal desire as he accomplished the team goal - hey if he has a smart manager he would be in his ear saying you have a short career lets set you up for life.Add in that GWS have the SECOND WORST retention rate only behind Brisbane and all of a sudden you have some clear indicators that there are boys who would want to come home.

Yes you are also right, there have been the Hawks and the Cats and Swans who stayed together. Led by leaders who came into the league 10 years ago, when it was about the team. In saying that Sydney did a marvellous job of poaching stars. Hall, Lockett, Franklin, Tippett. But the point is, the Hodges,Lings,Mitchells are retiring and the new breed led by the Tippets and OMearas are coming where $$$$$$ will become a factor.

In short, The AFL landscape is changing. Be prepared for a Rugby League or NBA style carousel of players moving and money flowing. This is most likely the future. Where players will see themselves as gun for hire and $$$$ will win out.

It wont apply for everyone - there will be cases of loyalty. But it wont be like we have seen,IMO

 

[plugger66]

Let me make it simpler and you can join the dots. I am assuming you would be aware between the standoff between Players and Clubs/AFL around the bargaining agreement?
If so, you would be aware that players are asking for 2 main points.
A) more money from the increase in the games revenue. So larger salaries
B) They are also asking for a reduction in the minimum years you need to serve consecutively to be eligible for free agency from 8 years to 6.

Now lets focus on point B for a moment, for any decision like that to be made and taken to the AFL. The players Need a MAJORITY agreement on this.Which it appears they have. Sounds pretty good for GWS players if this is agreed to in the off season as someone like Shiel would have served 6 years by next seasons end and be eligible.After all the MAJORITY of players want to be able to discuss where they are employed.

Now Lets focus on point A, players are requesting bigger salaries. We all love pay increases, infact we would all be excited for a 10k increase. So if a Melbourne club was to offer a Melbourne born GWS player the chance to come home double his pay. He has won a flag at GWS, he can finally consider his personal desire as he accomplished the team goal - hey if he has a smart manager he would be in his ear saying you have a short career lets set you up for life.Add in that GWS have the SECOND WORST retention rate only behind Brisbane and all of a sudden you have some clear indicators that there are boys who would want to come home.

Yes you are also right, there have been the Hawks and the Cats and Swans who stayed together. Led by leaders who came into the league 10 years ago, when it was about the team. In saying that Sydney did a marvellous job of poaching stars. Hall, Lockett, Franklin, Tippett. But the point is, the Hodges,Lings,Mitchells are retiring and the new breed led by the Tippets and OMearas are coming where $$$$$$ will become a factor.

In short, The AFL landscape is changing. Be prepared for a Rugby League or NBA style carousel of players moving and money flowing. This is most likely the future. Where players will see themselves as gun for hire and $$$$ will win out.

It wont apply for everyone - there will be cases of loyalty. But it wont be like we have seen,IMO

Yep that's all very interesting but why does winning a flag mean they will leave as opposed to losing a flag? That is my point. All the other stuff means jack when this is what we are discussing. You say it is because they have accomplished a team goal. Again history says that doesn't happen. A smart manager would be in the ear of a player win lose or draw. And they have the second worst retention rate. Not sure how you come up with that but if true it probably backs what I'm saying. They haven't won and players are leaving. Maybe they win and they don't. Maybe they lose they do. They are losing them at the moment when they haven't won a flag.

 

[Joffaboy]

No. But that's for your valuable comments.

Maybe I should just try to shut down every coversation like you and it would be a more vauable contribution.

As I see it you dont understand the current landscape as far as GWS is concerned.
You then get all defensive when that is pointed out.
Stav has posted a comprehensive explanation.
Hopefully you will get it once you have read it. You dont have to agree with it but you blanket rejection that doesnt fit the status quo in relation to this eithout due regard for the facts just seems to be arguing for the sake of.

Hopefully thats not the case.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

Yep that's all very interesting but why does winning a flag mean they will leave as opposed to losing a flag? That is my point. All the other stuff means jack when this is what we are discussing. You say it is because they have accomplished a team goal. Again history says that doesn't happen. A smart manager would be in the ear of a player win lose or draw. And they have the second worst retention rate. Not sure how you come up with that but if true it probably backs what I'm saying. They haven't won and players are leaving. Maybe they win and they don't. Maybe they lose they do. They are losing them at the moment when they haven't won a flag.

From the above it is obvious you are incapable of understanding stav's premis.
Got nothing to do with history. No idea why you keep harping on that.

You were correct you dont and never will get it.

Great points stav. Perfectly understood on my part. Great explanation.

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[stavro#4]

Yep that's all very interesting but why does winning a flag mean they will leave as opposed to losing a flag? That is my point. All the other stuff means jack when this is what we are discussing. You say it is because they have accomplished a team goal. Again history says that doesn't happen. A smart manager would be in the ear of a player win lose or draw. And they have the second worst retention rate. Not sure how you come up with that but if true it probably backs what I'm saying. They haven't won and players are leaving. Maybe they win and they don't. Maybe they lose they do. They are losing them at the moment when they haven't won a flag.

But we are talking about the most realistic way GWS lose the BIG fish. The players every other club dreams they had. That is why i want GWS to win the whole god damn thing. Because its JOB DONE. Then it is no longer about "we started a club lets give it a flag". They accomplished this out on their dung hill with their 10k supporters. They can come home and not get shit canned - they can get paid like Treloar. They can play in front of 40k every week instead of 5k.

IF they lose, then i dont think they lose the upper echelon of talent - not as soon as i think they will if they win anyway.

 

[plugger66]

Maybe I should just try to shut down every coversation like you and it would be a more vauable contribution.

As I see it you dont understand the current landscape as far as GWS is concerned.
You then get all defensive when that is pointed out.
Stav has posted a comprehensive explanation.
Hopefully you will get it once you have read it. You dont have to agree with it but you blanket rejection that doesnt fit the status quo in relation to this eithout due regard for the facts just seems to be arguing for the sake of.

Hopefully thats not the case.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

No I was having a discussion with Stavro. No personal insults but then you tell me to stop discussing it. You then say I don't understand the current landscape. Where is your post to Stavro saying he doesn't understand the history of winning a flag? That's right. It isn't said. And how am I shutting down the conversation. He said something and then I gave reasons why what he said doesn't make sense to me. He then replied. That doesn't sound like some shutting down a conversation but what you said to me does sound exactly like some trying to shut down a conversation. And I'm not arguing for the sake of it because I'm using history and facts. I'm not sure Stavro has history on his side. Maybe you need to discuss that with him.

 

[AaronSCHQ]

they might possibly have to make a tough decision.

As long as it's not Billings. He can't possibly fetch us a trade on the open market, what he is potentially worth to us. You get me nervous when you say "tough decision", Stav!! Haha... Hopefully it's a McEvoy/Dal/BJ-esque tough decision.

 

[busso_mick]

Yep that's all very interesting but why does winning a flag mean they will leave as opposed to losing a flag? That is my point. All the other stuff means jack when this is what we are discussing. You say it is because they have accomplished a team goal. Again history says that doesn't happen. A smart manager would be in the ear of a player win lose or draw. And they have the second worst retention rate. Not sure how you come up with that but if true it probably backs what I'm saying. They haven't won and players are leaving. Maybe they win and they don't. Maybe they lose they do. They are losing them at the moment when they haven't won a flag.

If I can add my 2c worth here. It is a combination of factors why players leave clubs - the main ones are money, homesickness and opportunity. GWS have a lot of depth and that is a major factor why a lot of them are leaving - to simply get a chance at playing regular AFL. We snagged Bruce, Carlton have scooped a lot of them up but mostly these are fringe players. I hope GWS have short term success as it would lend itself to players wanting to leave which is to our and other clubs benefit. Not only that it would make them marginally weaker which would benefit our aims for ultimate success. GWS are a special case IMHO and you can't compare that to the powerful Melbourne based clubs who have had extended success.

 

[AaronSCHQ]

I probably get too emotionally attached to the players, but there's not a lot with value I would want to trade...

I would trade: Armitage (despite him being a potential skipper), Longer and even Webster.

 

[stavro#4]

As long as it's not Billings. He can't possibly fetch us a trade on the open market, what he is potentially worth to us. You get me nervous when you say "tough decision", Stav!! Haha... Hopefully it's a McEvoy/Dal/BJ-esque tough decision.

His gone. Looking to trade for Parish and Francis

 

[Darkhour]

It's simple.. GWS have players that will be available due to the want or need to move as well as pressure on GWS salary cap space.. this has already affected GWS and them winning will only amplify this.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Diehard Saint]

I dont have a particular name to share of who the target(s) may be and after the backlash i copped during the week i wont share the names of the guys who this affects for obvious reasons.
However I am aware of phone calls made to certain players in the last 72 hours advising them to ignore particular media commentary - however to be prepared for an active October and to go away over the next 10 or so days and freshen up mentally as they might possibly have to make a tough decision. I do believe with the information i was given that there is still a big fish or two out their for us. It will be dependent on a variety of factors. But i would be confident based on what i was told to expect something exciting.

I have alot of private conversations with people who have info or know more about this then me on this board and other places. What i can say is that this year, the club has really locked down names. Carlisle was very easy to extract last year, as was Shiel. However this year it is very "Need to Know Information" and i dont think it will break until 24 hours before the trade might break.

Mentioned by a few, i was told to expect Hartlett to become a Crow if he was to leave - Didn't think he was much of a chance at the saints, Happy in SA.
Rockliff - Good Chance, dependent however on Coach and direction of the club etc.
Dusty - i wouldn't think its possible, however if he hasn't re-signed then i KNOW we will be all over him.

Also, $$$$ is not a problem. We have clubs very envious of our Cap situation. If the right player comes along, then the money is available.

Personally, I am very pleased the club is playing this with cards close to the chest, as much as we would like to have the info.
Hawthorn very nearly scuppered our very public dealings with Carlisle last season...one of the other reasons I would love to steal Mitchell from under their noses.

 

[plugger66]

It's simple.. GWS have players that will be available due to the want or need to move as well as pressure on GWS salary cap space.. this has already affected GWS and them winning will only amplify this.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Even though clubs that win flags usually play for less than their true value and clubs that lose usually have players wanting their true value.