List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Part 1

[Saintnick12]

If ghe

Opinion - "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge: that, in my opinion, is right | the area's residents share vociferous opinions about the future".

Sorry mate I have no idea what you are on about. If I want to comment about something on an opinion forum I'll do exactly that. When I comment about JOM regarding his future there are no facts because its in the future - get it. I don't even think I referred to St.Kilda it's my opinion on whether any recruiters would be interested in him given the nature of his injury.

if there is even the slightest of chances jom can get on the park then every club in the league would move heaven and earth to have the chance at getting him. He has got being one of the best players of all time written all over him

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hopper to half time of his first game (from just 68% game time): 18 disposals (equal-2nd most on the ground, at 72% DE, 8 contested), 4 clearances (2 centre), 4 inside 50's, 3 marks.

 

[Jade Buddha]

If ghe

if there is even the slightest of chances jom can get on the park then every club in the league would move heaven and earth to have the chance at getting him. He has got being one of the best players of all time written all over him

What does that have to do with whether you are allowed an opinion?

You've just expressed an opinion not based in fact so therefore you're not entitled to do so - gospel according to Luke Sainters

 

[Hayes4PM]

Hopper to half time of his first game (from just 68% game time): 18 disposals (8 contested, at 72% DE), 4 clearances (2 centre), 4 inside 50's, 3 marks.

Dislike

 

[saintsrfreak]

Hopper to half time of his first game (from just 68% game time): 18 disposals (equal-2nd most on the ground, at 72% DE, 8 contested), 4 clearances (2 centre), 4 inside 50's, 3 marks.

Let's see how long you'll be rubbing it in faces after he's BOG

 

[Saintnick12]

What does that have to do with whether you are allowed an opinion?

You've just expressed an opinion not based in fact so therefore you're not entitled to do so - gospel according to Luke Sainters

Correct it is not a fact, but i would be willing to bet everything i own that if there was even a 10% chance of getting JOM right then every club recruiter in the league would take that chance

 

[Mowman]

Correct it is not a fact, but i would be willing to bet everything i own that if there was even a 10% chance of getting JOM right then every club recruiter in the league would take that chance

Depending on the price

 

[aussierulesrules]

Let's see how long you'll be rubbing it in faces after he's BOG

Did I say $500K, I meant $600K!

 

[plugger66]

Is that a fact? What makes you say that with such certainty?

From where I'm sitting, one is firmly entrenched in their team and culture, having been there since the beginning and who is already rich and just knocked back a huge opportunity to come back to Melbourne (if he wanted to), while the other has only been in the place 5 minutes, grew up closer to Melbourne than he did Sydney, lived in Vic for the previous two years and who is probably a lot more likely to be enticed by a deal that got him a couple of hundred thousand dollars extra per year, since he at this point is not rich and might like the "security" of knowing that cash will be in the bank if things don't pan out for him.

Who wouldn't? But that's not the point. I'm sure we'd all rather Marcus Bontempelli, too, but just because we'd rather it doesn't mean much if it's very little chance of happening unless we pay ludicrous overs for them.

As of tomorrow he will have played a game though, so I'm not really sure why you'd keep going on about this and you're also taking it all far too literally.

The point I'm making is that if we identify someone who we believe is "elite" (probably from GWS, as they are the club that have them coming in like a production line) that we should try to get them early with an offer that we believe will be too hard for them to knock back (whether it be $500K, or $450K, or whatever) and back in our talent identification.

I reckon you're a far better chance of getting in someone who will be elite if they are already considered to be elite for their age, rather than targeting those who are not considered to be elite for their age or experience and just crossing your fingers that they might somehow end up that good eventually, or targeting those like Shiel who are elite and AFL experienced, but a very low chance of actually leaving their clubs- and who would cost an arm and a leg in a trade (from both a monetary and trade value perspective), if by some remote chance they did.

What's the issue with what someone like that would cost you from a draft pick perspective though? You'd be getting what you pay for and if you want serious quality you generally need to pay for it. If you're not willing to pay the price for real quality, guess what, you're probably not going to get it.

You say how you'd rather a Shiel, but someone like that would cost probably two early first rounders and at least $1million PA (for effectively the next 6+ years), whereas given that say Hopper only cost GWS pick 7, we might be able to get him for a pick around 10 in next year's draft in a trade (plus maybe some change), which is the sort of deal that you'd surely snap up in a heartbeat- due to the fact he was widely considered to be in the best 3-4 in his draft class (but cost GWS less because clubs with picks higher than 7 didn't bid on him, with one or more of them probably not wanting to potentially spoil their trading relations with GWS).

So you might be able to get someone like him for less than half what a Shiel type would cost from a trade perspective and for lot less money over the course of his career, yet if he develops as expected he might end up just as good as him, or near enough to it, which is why I think it would be well worth the punt.

If you have any better ideas of how we ought to go about getting in elite talent I'm all ears though. Unless you think we have enough of it already going forward.

Fine. My opinion, your opinion. No facts in either. And we are way short of elite talent. I just don't agree on paying 500k in a player who at the time you said it hadn't played a game. He could be worth a million when he comes out of contract but we can only talk about today. As for better ideas well I agree with you on paying overs but we just don't agree on who we pay overs.

 

[Saintnick12]

Thi

Depending on the price

correct, but a guy like this is worth the risk even if a slight chance of getting him right, could be that slight difference in winning a flag to not winning one next time we contend. Risk and reward is massive in this case but every club will know it and every club will want this guy make no mistake

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Hopper to half time of his first game (from just 68% game time): 18 disposals (equal-2nd most on the ground, at 72% DE, 8 contested), 4 clearances (2 centre), 4 inside 50's, 3 marks.

Unfreakanbelievable. I hate gws.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Correct it is not a fact, but i would be willing to bet everything i own that if there was even a 10% chance of getting JOM right then every club recruiter in the league would take that chance

You are absolutely entitled to think that mate and of course if he gets going it'll be movement in the upward trajectory but I've been told by Luke sainters I'm not entitled to opinion unless it's fact so I'm afraid we'll all have to stop posting unless we can back it up with fact.

In my opinion (which is not allowed) JOM still represents massive risk and recruiters will tread very carefully due to the fact that GCS would want high compensation, particularly if he does get back on the park.

 

[burningdwarf]

I think he was mentioned in here during the week, but Saad just did his hamstring.

Having a fair few soft tissue injuries atm, bit of a worry for a player whose game is built on his electric pace.

 

[Mowman]

Thi

correct, but a guy like this is worth the risk even if a slight chance of getting him right, could be that slight difference in winning a flag to not winning one next time we contend. Risk and reward is massive in this case but every club will know it and every club will want this guy make no mistake

I hope we don't go to hard after him, would not wont to give up 1st round draft picks for him. From what some have said who know a lot more about his injure then me, to much risk just my opinion. Still not even training with main group

 

[Saintnick12]

If there is even a chance this guy is worth the risk

I hope we don't go to hard after him, would not wont to give up 1st round draft picks for him. From what some have said who know a lot more about his injure then me, to much risk just my opinion. Still not even training with main group

e is

 

[Mowman]

If there is even a chance this guy is worth the risk

e is

Agree for a 2nd round pick and Lee

 

[Luke_sainters]

Opinion - "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge: that, in my opinion, is right | the area's residents share vociferous opinions about the future".

Sorry mate I have no idea what you are on about. If I want to comment about something on an opinion forum I'll do exactly that. When I comment about JOM regarding his future there are no facts because its in the future - get it. I don't even think I referred to St.Kilda it's my opinion on whether any recruiters would be interested in him given the nature of his injury.

Correct anyone can have an opinion. However, "stronger" opinions contain evidence.
Now, I never said STK would be recruiting him, I just threw it out there because over these 220 pages or whatever JOM has been spoken about frequently.
You seemed to think he won't get to his 'former best' which means you are writing him off before he comes back.
Anyway some of the other stuff was said to birdman as well FYI

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hopper the first to have 30 disposals (31) on debut since 2010. 17 contested, 9 clearances (6 centre clearances! ), 7 inside-50's, 5 marks.

 

[Plugger_87]

Hopper the first to have 30 disposals (31) on debut since 2010. 17 contested, 9 clearances (6 centre clearances! ), 7 inside-50's, 5 marks.

Hey mate who was the last player to do this on debut?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hey mate who was the last player to do this on debut?

They didn't say.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Hopper the first to have 30 disposals (31) on debut since 2010. 17 contested, 9 clearances (6 centre clearances! ), 7 inside-50's, 5 marks.

He's alright I guess

 

[saintsrfreak]

Hey mate who was the last player to do this on debut?

One Michael Barlow, was a fair bit older than Hopper is

 

[aussierulesrules]

He's alright I guess

He is, but apparently it's so easy to get elite young talent in to your club when you don't have an academy or really high picks that he wouldn't be worth us making an offer of say $500K x 4 years for, so I look forward to us getting a stack of it in in other ways.

 

[bird_man]

Correct anyone can have an opinion. However, "stronger" opinions contain evidence.
Now, I never said STK would be recruiting him, I just threw it out there because over these 220 pages or whatever JOM has been spoken about frequently.
You seemed to think he won't get to his 'former best' which means you are writing him off before he comes back.
Anyway some of the other stuff was said to birdman as well FYI

There have been a few on here with medical backgrounds that I would think know more than you and I, not to mention people in the media. A lot of them aren't very confident he'll be back to his best.

For what it's worth there have only been a couple of AFL footballers who have had a similar injury. One was Michael Long who played for another 6 years but was not the same player and only averaged 10 games a year. The other was Chris Knights from Adelaide/Richmond. He only played the one game after that.

It's a very rare injury in AFL but much more common in NFL and it is not unusual for players to not be able to get their power back and lose their explosiveness.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, just basing my opinion on things that I've read and heard from people that would know more than me.

 

[burningdwarf]

GWS are sickening.

At least they got a solid 4kish to the game.