List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[aussierulesrules]

I wonder just how much in advance of trade week these deals are actually "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" finalised?

I'm referring to the tidbit thrown out by Moorabbin Ghost a few pages ago when he said that we could be courting two players around the message of "come to us Jelly because we'll be getting a certain #7 too
( insert any player names here, but I'm going for broke!)

There's a lot of talk that clubs are sitting down right around now to really amp up their list management plans and as such want to know the intentions of their trade/FA targets ASAP, so that they're able to work out their strategy well in advance of the trade period. Eg. if someone like Fyfe isn't coming to us, we'd want to know very very soon, as we would then probably go harder for someone like Kelly and also move our attention onto other, smaller fish.

 

[Diehard Saint]

There's a lot of talk that clubs are sitting down right around now to really amp up their list management plans and as such want to know the intentions of their trade/FA targets ASAP, so that they're able to work out their strategy well in advance of the trade period. Eg. if someone like Fyfe isn't coming to us, we'd want to know very very soon, as we would then probably go harder for someone like Kelly and also move our attention onto other smaller fish.

That makes complete sense of course.
So really, it's all pretty much done well ahead of time, whilst we poor suckers go round and round in circles, the only ones who don't really know what's going on until official trade week.

 

[bird_man]

Because freo arent going to offer him the 1.5mil we are.... unless they are forced to.

They will have put a mill a year in front of him right now, saying please stay.

They could save themselves a pile of money if he re-signs this year

Surely Freo won't let it get to that though. They would be aware of what the contract offer is prior to Fyfe lodging it via FA and tell them that they would match it.

It would be a terrible look for their club if Fyfe were to announce he was putting in for FA only for Freo to match the offer. I just can't see him leaving WA for the same money he could be getting over there.

Yes they would be smart to try and get him to re sign for less now, but closer to the date, I can't see why they would wait until the FA application is lodged before they say they'd match.

 

[aussierulesrules]

That makes complete sense of course.
So really, it's all pretty much done well ahead of time, whilst we poor suckers go round and round in circles, the only ones who don't really know what's going on until official trade week.

I think the higher profile ones will probably be making up their minds right about now, if they haven't already, and be telling the clubs once they've come to a decision (except for their own club, if they're planning on leaving- they just get told that they'll look at it after the season is over, which probably 90% of the time means "yeah I'm leaving, but I don't want to tell you yet") and in most of those cases I reckon most of us will have a fair idea of what is happening in advance.

Last year for instance we were hearing mail left right and centre that Jack Steele was coming to us for weeks leading up to trade period and the year before we were hearing Carlisle to us consistently for a fair while, ditto freeman, from memory.

 

[The_Steadier]

Surely Freo won't let it get to that though. They would be aware of what the contract offer is prior to Fyfe lodging it via FA and tell them that they would match it.

It would be a terrible look for their club if Fyfe were to announce he was putting in for FA only for Freo to match the offer. I just can't see him leaving WA for the same money he could be getting over there.

Yes they would be smart to try and get him to re sign for less now, but closer to the date, I can't see why they would wait until the FA application is lodged before they say they'd match.

Freo officials already came out publicly earlier this year and said if fyfe were to explore his FA options, they would match anything up to 1.2mil for him.
That was before anyone knew the cap was going up 20%, not the expected 10-12% so that is probably closer to 1.5mil now.

Fyfe wouldn't bear a grudge against freo because they haven't tabled that 1.2/1.5 offer to him, instead it's 1mill to re-sign this year.

Because he knows that every player has 2 prices on his head- one price for staying with his club.... and another higher price for being lured away.

Freo dont look bad just because they dont want to offer fyfe his 'lure away' price straight up.
That's business.


Did we 'look bad' or make roo hate us when we were 'only' paying him a mill a year when he could have gotten 1.5mill at collingwood?

 

[StCicatriz]

Surely Freo won't let it get to that though. They would be aware of what the contract offer is prior to Fyfe lodging it via FA and tell them that they would match it.

It would be a terrible look for their club if Fyfe were to announce he was putting in for FA only for Freo to match the offer. I just can't see him leaving WA for the same money he could be getting over there.

Yes they would be smart to try and get him to re sign for less now, but closer to the date, I can't see why they would wait until the FA application is lodged before they say they'd match.

the only hick up being what if our offer is significantly better than what the freo stakeholders would find acceptable to match given his form slump, when talking about genuinely retaining him

his form isnt the greatest and ive noticed that lyon got very very defencive when talking about it, which tells me its a sore point. i wonder if freo themselves are getting nervous over matching the bids he has already received. that didnt end well for cloke and collingwood when confronted with a similar situation and he re-signed when his form was pretty damn good

say we have offered 1.5m over 6 years and his form is well down on 2015, are they happy with matching that from a list management perspective if they think his form isnt going to get any better?

 

[Sir Skid]

If we have to trade Blake to get one of these stars then forget it.

We need to increase the total number of stars we have; not simply change the names of those we already have.

Agree Doc but believe his name will be raised by Freo in any deal. So anyway, after we squash that idea...

 

[bird_man]

Freo officials already came out publicly earlier this year and said if fyfe were to explore his FA options, they would match anything up to 1.2mil for him.
That was before anyone knew the cap was going up 20%, not the expected 10-12% so that is probably closer to 1.5mil now.

Fyfe wouldn't bear a grudge against freo because they haven't tabled that 1.2/1.5 offer to him, instead it's 1mill to re-sign this year.

Because he knows that every player has 2 prices on his head- one price for staying with his club.... and another higher price for being lured away.

Freo dont look bad just because they dont want to offer fyfe his 'lure away' price straight up.
That's business.


Did we 'look bad' or make roo hate us when we were 'only' paying him a mill a year when he could have gotten 1.5mill at collingwood?

I'm not really sure you read my post. I said it was fine for Freo to only offer whatever they are. But if they are eventually going to match the offer then why would Fyfe leave?

I agree with you there are two prices, but we are talking about Freo eventually matching the offer so that is exactly the same price.

And my other point was not that Freo should be trying to match the offer right now, I can understand that they would be trying to sign him for less but if they are eventually going to match the offer surely they are better just doing that a week prior to FA lodgement rather dragging the club through the mud and eventually matching the offer anyway.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

I'm not really sure you read my post. I said it was fine for Freo to only offer whatever they are. But if they are eventually going to match the offer then why would Fyfe leave?

I agree with you there are two prices, but we are talking about Freo eventually matching the offer so that is exactly the same price.

And my other point was not that Freo should be trying to match the offer right now, I can understand that they would be trying to sign him for less but if they are eventually going to match the offer surely they are better just doing that a week prior to FA lodgement rather dragging the club through the mud and eventually matching the offer anyway.

Maybe it's not all about money?

 

[bird_man]

the only hick up being what if our offer is significantly better than what the freo stakeholders would find acceptable to match given his form slump, when talking about genuinely retaining him

his form isnt the greatest and ive noticed that lyon got very very defencive when talking about it, which tells me its a sore point. i wonder if freo themselves are getting nervous over matching the bids he has already received. that didnt end well for cloke and collingwood when confronted with a similar situation and he re-signed when his form was pretty damn good

say we have offered 1.5m over 6 years and his form is well down on 2015, are they happy with matching that from a list management perspective if they think his form isnt going to get any better?

So they don't match?

 

[StCicatriz]

Maybe it's not all about money?

read an interesting comment from someone on facebook who's married to a fyfe. apparently fyfe and by his extension his family have been through quite a lot recently. sounded like not everything was peachy during the injury period

 

[bird_man]

Maybe it's not all about money?

Maybe, but I find that hard to believe Ghost.

A guy from WA playing in a decent young side under a good coach. Why would he travel all the way over the other side of the country for the same amount of money.

 

[StCicatriz]

So they don't match?

when talking about matching i think we need to make a distinction between matching now to genuinely retain Fyfe and matching to enforce a trade

those two points i think are getting confused

if fyfe nominates another club, i think Freo will 100% match given their ladder position and what they can get from a trade

however in terms of matching now. i've been on record stating i think he stays and that freo are absolutely desperate to retain him, but i havent heard anything on this in a while. its complete radio silence. i have no idea whats going on and i cant get a read on it other than some strange observations

my question is if Fyfe has say an offer of 1.5m over 6 years on the table right now from another club other than freo, I wonder if freo will be prepared to match that to keep him given his form and durability. along with the players they want to obtain.

 

[StCicatriz]

Maybe, but I find that hard to believe Ghost.

A guy from WA playing in a decent young side under a good coach. Why would he travel all the way over the other side of the country for the same amount of money.

playing devils advocate, sure they're performing heaps better and have had a fight back of sorts up the ladder. but dont under-estimate that coming from the senior blokes. mundy has been instrumental in that but he's not getting any younger. you take mundy out and like ive said before Fyfes life gets 10x more difficult on field (ask daniel kerr about how his career got shortened by 3-5 years from that exact situation)

also dont underestimate the fixture they have this year which is significantly easier than previous seasons

i could see them slumping back down the ladder and struggling to make the top 4 for a good 5 years

 

[bird_man]

when talking about matching i think we need to make a distinction between matching now to genuinely retain Fyfe and matching to enforce a trade

those two points i think are getting confused

if fyfe nominates another club, i think Freo will 100% match given their ladder position and what they can get from a trade

however in terms of matching now. i've been on record stating i think he stays and that freo are absolutely desperate to retain him, but i havent heard anything on this in a while. its complete radio silence. i have no idea whats going on and i cant get a read on it other than some strange observations

my question is if Fyfe has say an offer of 1.5m over 6 years on the table right now from another club other than freo, I wonder if freo will be prepared to match that to keep him given his form and durability. along with the players they want to obtain.

Sounds like a dangerous game. I don't think it has happened before and I'd say there is a reason for it. If it were that easy, why wouldn't Hawthorn had done the same thing with Buddy instead of accepting pick 19?

The only time I remember a FA being forced to a trade is Danger and Adelaide clearly would have happily matched that offer but Danger had a genuine reason for wanting to go.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Maybe, but I find that hard to believe Ghost.

A guy from WA playing in a decent young side under a good coach. Why would he travel all the way over the other side of the country for the same amount of money.

Some players are extremely conscious of "Brand" and are absolutely intent on setting up and cashing in on a whole lot of different off field opportunities for life during and after footy. Look at Juddy.
Why would JOM go from WA to the Suns and then to Melbourne? He wants to cash in in the footy heartland (unfortunately not looking good for the kid). Business opportunities, real estate, tv...the list goes on.
I'm not saying Fyfe is leaving but if he were one of those guys then it'd make perfect sense for him to move from home in WA to Melbourne for 8 or so years to create much bigger opportunities and A LOT more money.

 

[StCicatriz]

Sounds like a dangerous game. I don't think it has happened before and I'd say there is a reason for it. If it were that easy, why wouldn't Hawthorn had done the same thing with Buddy instead of accepting pick 19?

The only time I remember a FA being forced to a trade is Danger and Adelaide clearly would have happily matched that offer but Danger had a genuine reason for wanting to go.

the reason they didnt match is because of the price tag buddy put on his head

if they matched and forced sydney to the trade table. sydney would have just walked away and stalled the talks then pick him up in the PSD like they did with tippett

thats a massive risk to take for the sake of a 3 place draft pick upgrade, pick 15 vs pick 19

the difference is you now have future trading which means you gain significantly more from taking the risk

 

[bird_man]

Some players are extremely conscious of "Brand" and are absolutely intent on setting up and cashing in on a whole lot of different off field opportunities for life during and after footy. Look at Juddy.
Why would JOM go from WA to the Suns and then to Melbourne? He wants to cash in in the footy heartland (unfortunately not looking good for the kid). Business opportunities, real estate, tv...the list goes on.
I'm not saying Fyfe is leaving but if he were one of those guys then it'd make perfect sense for him to move from home in WA to Melbourne for 8 or so years to create much bigger opportunities and A LOT more money.

Just was a Victorian returning home though. Fair enough. I understand there may be more possibilities over here but it's not like he couldn't walk into the media or a coaching role as soon as he finished, no matter where he lives.

I still think it's very very unlikely he'd leave if it's not on a bigger deal. I'd be very surprised if it happened.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Sounds like a dangerous game. I don't think it has happened before and I'd say there is a reason for it. If it were that easy, why wouldn't Hawthorn had done the same thing with Buddy instead of accepting pick 19?

The only time I remember a FA being forced to a trade is Danger and Adelaide clearly would have happily matched that offer but Danger had a genuine reason for wanting to go.

A club has to be able to fit the contract in their TPP or else it's not ticked off by AFL. I doubt Hawks would have had any hope of matching and fitting the Buddy deal in their salary cap.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Maybe, but I find that hard to believe Ghost.

A guy from WA playing in a decent young side under a good coach. Why would he travel all the way over the other side of the country for the same amount of money.

Cos playing in a vic club is better. Less travel, more exposure, bigger crowds etc. Also as a Vic player he will potentially get better post football opportunities in the media.

 

[bird_man]

Cos playing in a vic club is better. Less travel, more exposure, bigger crowds etc. Also as a Vic player he will potentially get better post football opportunities in the media.

I can't remember a great deal of WA players that wanted to leave a WA club for a Victorian club for the same amount of money though.

Bigger crowds? Unlikely.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I can't remember a great deal of WA players that wanted to leave a WA club for a Victorian club for the same amount of money though.

Bigger crowds? Unlikely.

I mean Judd is the obvious one but there have surely been others. Another thing to consider is most clubs are aware of where the draftees want to go so earlier picks that don't want to move interstate tend to get left by interstate clubs, Fyfe was a bit too late a pick for this though. Also I think it's hard to overstate the lure of travelling significantly less and playing in the footy capital.

 

[Joffaboy]

Maybe, but I find that hard to believe Ghost.

A guy from WA playing in a decent young side under a good coach. Why would he travel all the way over the other side of the country for the same amount of money.

Opportunities in the big smoke as opposed to a backwater.

Big fish in a huge pond compared to big fish in a wading pool.

 

[StCicatriz]

Wa businesses are struggling over here. So there's that side of it too

 

[StCicatriz]

Like I said I thought that leak to the media was pretty well played. Smoke bomb