List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part III

[Virgin Dog]

Do you honestly think you'll get Bruce without it?

Won't matter what I think, since absolutely none of us know what the price will be (if the trade happens). In my opinion, I very strongly believe it won't be Pick 12 straight up

 

[BrutThough]

Do you honestly think the Saints will get the Dogs 1st rounder straight up?

I think that if a club is going to offer "a deal he cant refuse" to our contracted, very required number 1 Key Forward, then they are going to have to pay overs to get him and give us something worth while to make the trade happen.

 

[Yawkey way]

Do you honestly think the Saints will get the Dogs 1st rounder straight up?

You’ve just watched your team get badly beaten and to make matters worse naughton went down clutching a knee.

Next year hopefully he’s fit and ready to go but right there is just another reason why if you can actually get the saints to trade Bruce you just pay up and walk away smiling. You’re a better side and the season won’t swing on the fitness of one player.

 

[Mikka84]

Re: the Bruce trade. I think it works out best for everyone if we can get West Coast involved. Swapping the Dogs' 1st and 2nd for West Coast's 1st and Sydney's 2nd (12 and 30 for 17/18 and 22, plus whatever later pick swaps are required, which are irrelevant here) could mean simplifying the Bruce trade a lot.

It would mean we simply hand over a 1st rounder in a straight swap, rather than giving our 1st then trying to find a fair balance through other pick swaps. If we handed over 18 for Bruce, then used our 22 on Martin, it means we've turned our 1st and 2nd into Martin + Bruce, which is pretty much exactly what our aim seems to be. It also means Saints get their 1st rounder without over-complicating things

I think it’s better if you don’t involve them.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The problem is a lot of reports are suggesting the trade is likely to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, where the Saints will likely end up with unders if anything. Straight swap for Pick 12 seems almost 0% chance of happening at this stage

Ha ha ha - this is a perfect example of why this thread makes for enormously amusing reading and why I avoid getting involved as much as possible.

Please explain why we will trade our contracted chf for unders?

Thanks

 

[Yawkey way]

The problem is a lot of reports are suggesting the trade is likely to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, where the Saints will likely end up with unders if anything. Straight swap for Pick 12 seems almost 0% chance of happening at this stage

Seriously deluded if you really believe that, he’s contracted.

Bruce is going nowhere unless the saints are happy with the deal it’s that simple, he has no leverage and the WB have nothing but hope.

 

[#gosaintas]

Re: the Bruce trade. I think it works out best for everyone if we can get West Coast involved. Swapping the Dogs' 1st and 2nd for West Coast's 1st and Sydney's 2nd (12 and 30 for 17/18 and 22, plus whatever later pick swaps are required, which are irrelevant here) could mean simplifying the Bruce trade a lot.

It would mean we simply hand over a 1st rounder in a straight swap, rather than giving our 1st then trying to find a fair balance through other pick swaps. If we handed over 18 for Bruce, then used our 22 on Martin, it means we've turned our 1st and 2nd into Martin + Bruce, which is pretty much exactly what our aim seems to be. It also means Saints get their 1st rounder without over-complicating things

Collingwood's 1st will be 17 so you will have to beat that

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The problem is a lot of reports are suggesting the trade is likely to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, where the Saints will likely end up with unders if anything. Straight swap for Pick 12 seems almost 0% chance of happening at this stage

Reports from who?
It sounds a lot like the Dogs have gone in offering godfather deals to Bruce, which he obviously finds very agreeable, without worrying about the club that has him under contract?
I don't care how many "Reports" are generated by social media , 1000 wrong reports are no more accurate than 1.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Collingwood's 1st will be 17 so you will have to beat that

That won't actually be relevant tbh, it comes down to arranging a deal with the club Bruce chooses as his destination

 

[Virgin Dog]

Ha ha ha - this is a perfect example of why this thread makes for enormously amusing reading and why I avoid getting involved as much as possible.

Please explain why we will trade our contracted chf for unders?

Thanks

If you want a legitimate reason, and are not going to instantly get defensive, then it would be because your list management team would recognise that trading off a 27 year-old player, who is in a position where you have a lot of depth, could mean addressing more pressing areas of need.

Just wait a see what happens in trade period I guess

 

[BrutThough]

If you want a legitimate reason, and are not going to instantly get defensive, then it would be because your list management team would recognise that trading off a 27 year-old player, who is in a position where you have a lot of depth, could mean addressing more pressing areas of need.

Just wait a see what happens in trade period I guess

List of 190cm+ key forwards on St Kilda's list: Josh Bruce (113 games), Max King (0 games).

What depth?

 

[stfan]

Everything’s a code for trading, their gonna steal him.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Obviously you are the nervous type.

I would be amazed in the Hawks match, or even get close, to our offer and I cannot see Hill giving up the cash.

He already has two flags and so the allure that many good players have about joining a team already in the Premiership Window will not be what it is for other players.

 

[hayes]

If you want a legitimate reason, and are not going to instantly get defensive, then it would be because your list management team would recognise that trading off a 27 year-old player, who is in a position where you have a lot of depth, could mean addressing more pressing areas of need.

Just wait a see what happens in trade period I guess

We don’t have any key forward depth, we’re just trying to get a midfield and you have to give up something good to get something.

I think forum posters value picks more than clubs. If all it takes for a 40-50 goal a year forward (and Bruce would be that in a good team) is pick 12 they’ll give it up. I wouldn’t even hesitate if I were the Dogs, he’s a quality player.

 

[Crusty Undies]

If you want a legitimate reason, and are not going to instantly get defensive, then it would be because your list management team would recognise that trading off a 27 year-old player, who is in a position where you have a lot of depth, could mean addressing more pressing areas of need.

Just wait a see what happens in trade period I guess

We don't have a whole lot of kpf depth though. At least not crash and bash players like Bruce. Currentlywe have an untried early pick coming back from knee and ankle injuries, a rising star nominee who's better in defence and a third tall who's been playing as a second tall for too long.

 

[Virgin Dog]

List of 190cm+ key forwards on St Kilda's list: Josh Bruce (113 games), Max King (0 games).

What depth?

McCartin is not retired yet (even if it does look likely).
You guys are making no secret if your pursuit of Ben King (even if it can't happen until next year).
Rowan Marshall is supposedly being shifted up forward.
Josh Battle isn't 100% locked in to defence. Started out up forward, and could return eventually depending on what happens with your KPD stocks

 

[stavro#4]

Won't matter what I think, since absolutely none of us know what the price will be (if the trade happens). In my opinion, I very strongly believe it won't be Pick 12 straight up

I would think that if you have targeted our best tall forward that has kicked 36,36,38 and 50 goals in a bottom 6 side in his last 4 full seasons(omitted the write off of 2018) and given him a premium offer that your list management team see him as someone who you would pay a premium price (first round pick). Whether that’s 12 or you get us another. I would argue that it will be a first round pick.

I highly doubt we turn around and say sure thing guys, let me apply some lube so you can have him for a second round pick because your fans believe he isn’t worth pick 12.

FYI Mitch McGovern was worth pick 13 only 12 months earlier. That’s a good guide in my opinion. Plus he is someone Ratten wants.

 

[Virgin Dog]

We don’t have any key forward depth, we’re just trying to get a midfield and you have to give up something good to get something.

I think forum posters value picks more than clubs. If all it takes for a 40-50 goal a year forward (and Bruce would be that in a good team) is pick 12 they’ll give it up. I wouldn’t even hesitate if I were the Dogs, he’s a quality player.

I'm not against the idea, and am happy to pay whatever it takes when I know it'll improve our list, I just have doubts that it ends up being a straight Bruce for Pick 12 swap like some seem to think

 

[wayneolsen]

I don’t think we instigated it at all unless you’ve got something that backs this up

A right stuff up. Again. Offered a great contract and security and not a boo from saints. Gone. To be replaced by a beanpole kid who hasn't yet played a game. Club must have something up sleeve. Aust at this stage it doesn't make sense

 

[Virgin Dog]

I would think that if you have targeted our best tall forward that has kicked 36,36,38 and 50 goals in a bottom 6 side in his last 4 full seasons(omitted the write off of 2018) and given him a premium offer that your list management team see him as someone who you would pay a premium price (first round pick). Whether that’s 12 or you get us another. I would argue that it will be a first round pick.

I highly doubt we turn around and say sure thing guys, let me apply some lube so you can have him for a second round pick because your fans believe he isn’t worth pick 12.

FYI Mitch McGovern was worth pick 13 only 12 months earlier. That’s a good guide in my opinion. Plus he is someone Ratten wants.

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks we are paying our 2nd rounder for him. Anyone who says that can be dismissed as a moron or (more likely) a troll. It's pretty much consensus that Bruce will end up costing somewhere around a pick in the teens, it is just completely unknown what that will actually look like in the form of picks

 

[VDS66]

If you want a legitimate reason, and are not going to instantly get defensive, then it would be because your list management team would recognise that trading off a 27 year-old player, who is in a position where you have a lot of depth, could mean addressing more pressing areas of need.

Just wait a see what happens in trade period I guess

Universal law of trading: to get quality, you have to give up quality.

Thanks for stopping by.

 

[stavro#4]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks we are paying our 2nd rounder for him. Anyone who says that can be dismissed as a moron or (more likely) a troll. It's pretty much consensus that Bruce will end up costing somewhere around a pick in the teens, it is just completely unknown what that will actually look like in the form of picks

Look, I think the potential deal that makes the most sense is a 3 way trade with Freo.

You get Bruce
We get Hill
Freo gets 12. Everyone is happy

 

[Verdun]

McCartin is not retired yet (even if it does look likely).
You guys are making no secret if your pursuit of Ben King (even if it can't happen until next year).
Rowan Marshall is supposedly being shifted up forward.
Josh Battle isn't 100% locked in to defence. Started out up forward, and could return eventually depending on what happens with your KPD stocks

Appreciate your analysis, but we currently do not have depth across the board....McCartin is gone, King is a potential and Marshall is our key ruck and would only go forward if we added to our ruck stocks

The need that the Saints have (and have done for several years) is in the midfield, that is why this discussion is occuring. The Dogs are after a contracted play to address a need they have you are right in that we will only find out come trade time.

I'm looking forward to it!

 

[stfan]

If you want a legitimate reason, and are not going to instantly get defensive, then it would be because your list management team would recognise that trading off a 27 year-old player, who is in a position where you have a lot of depth, could mean addressing more pressing areas of need.

Just wait a see what happens in trade period I guess

We don't actually:

• Paddy is gonkski.
• Max is coming back from a bad ankle injury following his ACL.
• Yes we have the young Battle, but he looks very good down back.
• I personally hope we do not waste Marshall at CHF
• Membrey is a classy third tall at 188cm

However with Bruce I think that the Club has firmly set it sights on improving other major deficiencies, and most likely the midfield. One part of that is Hill.
Pick 12 will be used as part of a deal to gain another mid or very good runner. Who is anyone's guess?

ie
- As part of the price for Crouch
- To use to get Hill, but keep pick 5 in the draft
- Hopefully not for Jones (as I would see that a real loss compared to keeping Bruce).


I personally would like to keep Bruce, but reading the tea leaves I think that the Saints ad Dogs have already agreed on a deal.

 

[BrutThough]

McCartin is not retired yet (even if it does look likely).
You guys are making no secret if your pursuit of Ben King (even if it can't happen until next year).
Rowan Marshall is supposedly being shifted up forward.
Josh Battle isn't 100% locked in to defence. Started out up forward, and could return eventually depending on what happens with your KPD stocks

McCartin has not run even once since his last concussion. He is never playing football again.
Ben King is a Gold Coast player.
Ratts has said multiple times and praised Marshall as one of the best ruckman in the competition.
And it was Ratts idea to turn Battle into a defender.

There is no current key forward depth at StKilda.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Look, I think the potential deal that makes the most sense is a 3 way trade with Freo.

You get Bruce
We get Hill
Freo gets 12. Everyone is happy

Won't be that simple tbh. Hill's price will be higher than Bruce's. He's performed at a higher level, is younger, and has more remaining years on his contract.