List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[killablood]

Not sure why the negativity around potentially signing Ladhams. Sure we might be a little top heavy for a season or so but with
Sinclair, Hickey, franklin, Naismith, Reid and possibly McAndrew coming off the list in the next two years grabbing a young Ruck or 2nd Ruck whatever you want to call him (Tall KPP) looks like good business. He might end up something, Gawn was hardly a star at the same age.
The timing is a little off but he or someone similar might not be available when the timing is perfect.

 

[BloodySwan]

Anyone have the access to read this:

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t.co

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Adelaide will offer its newly acquired future first-round draft pick to Sydney for Jordan Dawson, aware it might be the last offer before the pre-season draft comes into play.
The Crows continue to try to find solutions to acquire Dawson, having volunteered to acquire the Western Bulldogs’ No.17 pick in this year’s draft for the Swans.

That deal was rebuffed, as was an offer that involved the Crows throwing in some later picks that would have improved upon the No.17 selection.

Eventually the Crows were involved in a four-way trade that saw Melbourne acquire the No.17 pick and Adelaide receive Melbourne’s future first-round selection.

That will likely fall somewhere from 14-18, and there is a chance the Crows would again throw in some later picks.

But given the gap between the two clubs on Dawson’s value it remains to be seen if the Swans will accept that deal.

Adelaide’s football director Mark Ricciuto has raised the spectre of using the pre-season draft to secure Dawson, which has been the last resort for a Crows team prepared to negotiate in good faith.

But Sydney seems intent on offering up proposals which involve Adelaide’s No.4 draft pick, which is off the table for the Crows.

 

[Superstar swan]

Adelaide will look real silly if they end until behaving to use that pick 4 this year, whether it’s in a direct trade or splitting it with the tigers

 

[Wolftone]

Barrass and his partner have either just had or due a baby soon, they wouldn’t be moving I would have thought

He's not on the market anyway. I don't know why people are even talking about him. Plus we could not fit him into the cap

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[Olian]

Crows should split pick 4 with Fremantle’s 6 & 8. They keep 6 Swans get 8. Freo have 4. Swap later picks for the giggles but that would do it.

 

[caesar88]

What is the panicking about all "too many rucks" if we get Ladham? In hindsight I'm guessing we wouldn't have re-signed Sinclair and Naismith, but at the time both were insurance. We might as well just put those two to the side, as they'll hardly be a factor in senior selection next year, and definitely won't be a factor in the future beyond next year.

We'd then have Hickey, Ladhams and McAndrew as our rucks. One of them likely only has a good year or two left; the other is probably a year or two away from being ready. So in terms of actual AFL-quality rucks, we'd STILL be light on.

I have left out Amartey and McLean because people continue to confuse them being tall with them being ruckmen. They are not ruckmen, they are key forwards. Amartey chopped out at times this year when Hickey needed it (Ladhams could do this instead next year), and McLean does no rucking unless it's the odd forward 50 stoppage once in a blue moon. They are relevant to the key forward conversation with Buddy & Logan, not the ruck conversation with Hickey & Ladhams.

Also worth noting two things:

1. Easy to say that next year we'll have too many talls on the list - Hickey, Ladhams, McAndrew, Sinclair, Naismith, Buddy, Logan, Amartey and McLean. By as soon as 2023, with age, retirements, injuries etc., that list could look as short as: Ladhams, McAndrew, Logan, Amartey, and McLean. We shouldn't get too comfortable with where our talls are at when our tall stocks are in the hands of mostly veterans in the twilight of their careers.

2. Melbourne won the flag this year with a 4-tall set-up. While every team has it's own style and game plan based on it's personnel, it would be naive to think that every coach in the comp doesn't sit up and take notice of whatever has worked for the premiers.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The $650k pa offered by the Cows is under the odds. I suppose their shot duck skipper and Toxic Tex continue to be rewarded for their contributions to the Cows culture.

 

[Tedeski]

He's not on the market anyway. I don't know why people are even talking about him. Plus we could not fit him into the cap

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Why did the club enquire about him then?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Wot?

 

[Wolftone]

I should think a future 1st rounder and 33 or next year's 44 should get the deal done. We need more picks for next year with 3 top quality Academy boys coming up in the draft

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[BloodySwan]

He's not on the market anyway. I don't know why people are even talking about him. Plus we could not fit him into the cap

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How do we know he's not on the market if we don't enquire?

 

[Cadsky]

Why did the club enquire about him then?

Clubs always start talks 12 months out with free agents. Sydney and west coast have a pretty good trading history and I'd suggest and good respect for each other in many ways. My take is it was our way of letting them know he's on our radar for next season as a fa and if they want something for him now they may be able to broker a deal. WC says no and that was probably expected by us but now it won't come as a surprise if we chase him next season and land him as a fa.

 

[Indie_]

Adelaide will look real silly if they end until behaving to use that pick 4 this year, whether it’s in a direct trade or splitting it with the tigers

I think a lot of people on this board need to reassess their expectations about what Adelaide is going to give up for Dawson. I cannot see any reason why Adelaide would get their first round pick this year or next year involved in this transaction, unless Dawson has suggested he won't risk the PSD which thus far there is no any indication of. To me I think Melbourne's future first + some late picks is the best offer we are realistically going to get, and while is no doubt unders for a player of Dawson's quality - it's an offer we'll have to end up taking.

 

[Nuggetz]

What is the panicking about all "too many rucks" if we get Ladham? In hindsight I'm guessing we wouldn't have re-signed Sinclair and Naismith, but at the time both were insurance. We might as well just put those two to the side, as they'll hardly be a factor in senior selection next year, and definitely won't be a factor in the future beyond next year.

We'd then have Hickey, Ladhams and McAndrew as our rucks. One of them likely only has a good year or two left; the other is probably a year or two away from being ready. So in terms of actual AFL-quality rucks, we'd STILL be light on.

I have left out Amartey and McLean because people continue to confuse them being tall with them being ruckmen. They are not ruckmen, they are key forwards. Amartey chopped out at times this year when Hickey needed it (Ladhams could do this instead next year), and McLean does no rucking unless it's the odd forward 50 stoppage once in a blue moon. They are relevant to the key forward conversation with Buddy & Logan, not the ruck conversation with Hickey & Ladhams.

Also worth noting two things:

1. Easy to say that next year we'll have too many talls on the list - Hickey, Ladhams, McAndrew, Sinclair, Naismith, Buddy, Logan, Amartey and McLean. By as soon as 2023, with age, retirements, injuries etc., that list could look as short as: Ladhams, McAndrew, Logan, Amartey, and McLean. We shouldn't get too comfortable with where our talls are at when our tall stocks are in the hands of mostly veterans in the twilight of their careers.

2. Melbourne won the flag this year with a 4-tall set-up. While every team has it's own style and game plan based on it's personnel, it would be naive to think that every coach in the comp doesn't sit up and take notice of whatever has worked for the premiers.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

100% agree. Hickey was also playing injured/banged up for a lot of this season and we've seen how important a good ruck is to our setup. Sinclair/naismith would be on min $$$ so it shouldn't impact our cap much. Getting Ladhams or someone of his talent/potential would be a great get for us a backup to hickey, we also have one of the best rucks of all time on our coaching staff.

If a ruck gets injured it's soo hard to manufacture a replacement. Worst case scenario is we rely on sinclair and best case scenario is Hickey is dominant again and Ladhams is learning his craft under him. I don't care if it's ladhams or someone of his talent/potential etc but we definitely need a ruck as backup for Hickey. Amartey/Mclean aren't the answer, Ladhams potentially could be. Punt worth taking imo.

 

[Wolftone]

I just thought the respond after I said Ladhams was worth pick 31 was very eye opening......there's no doubt we tried to be very reasonable and you guys knock back pick 15/17 (massive surprise there), even Dawson would be pissed off with Sydney.

We were never offered 15-17. You never had 15-17. You had 23. Port have 16. Not you. We might still deal with Port if they are interested.

Then you even get rid of 23. Why? Because the rumour is you want Lukocius and Rankine next year. If that is the case you are deliberately pushing Dawson to the preseason draft. If that happens I hope one of the sides who have the 3 picks before you picks him up.

I think if you offered a first round pick and either 33 or next year's 44 we would do the deal. Dawson is a potential Brownlow winner. You have absolutely no ****ing idea.

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[SSwans2011]

Let's say we get Melbourne's future first and 33 for Dawson. We could then go 31 and 33 to the Dogs for 23, and send that to Port.

End result would be: Out: Dawson, 31. In: Ladhams, Future 1st.

Not the worst result. We might need to do some other pick swaps with Port, but generally, speaking that looks alright.

Enter the draft with pick 12, and we'd have two first round picks next year. Although, we might be better off trading the Melbourne future 1st for 2 2nd rounders if possible, and entering the draft with 12 and two picks in the 20-30s.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Looking likely we either cave and accept something next week or any deal is off

 

[DST]

Why did the club enquire about him then?

It’s a pre play for when he hits free agency next year.

All clubs are doing it now a year out, to see if clubs would be willing to chat about a potential offer before free agency.


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[caesar88]

Looking likely we will end up with a pick next year in the teens.

Even when we play hardball we still lose trades.

At this point you have to laugh.

 

[sataris]

Whatever deal it is, should involve a future 1st.

They ain't getting out of the bottom 4 next year.

 

[BloodySwan]

Looking likely we either cave and accept something next week or any deal is off

We were never going to get pick 4 but his value was somewhere in between. I'd rather melb future 1st over pick 17 this year. We know pick 17 will be pick 19. Melbourne's at worse will be pick 20

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The decision to retain Toxic Tex has stuffed the licorice allsorts next year. This is despite Nicks being a good coach.

 

[caesar88]

Will we literally ever get a fair return in a trade?

 

[Wolftone]

No, the offer was reported by multiple football channels. It was only the over the top pick 4 + 17 for Dawson + 12 which Theo reported, even Dawson would be shaking his head in disbelieve and probably why we leaked this over the top demand by Sydney.

You never had 17

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[Wolftone]

No, the offer was reported by multiple football channels. It was only the over the top pick 4 + 17 for Dawson + 12 which Theo reported, even Dawson would be shaking his head in disbelieve and probably why we leaked this over the top demand by Sydney.

How can you offer a pick you don't possess?

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