List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[Millky95]

How would carrying an extra player for that reason, at the detriment of selecting another (better) player in any way "fudge' the salary cap?

Both salaries would have to be included so no fudge factor at all.

I missed the /s at the end of my post

 

[Wolftone]

I don't disagree with your assessments there entirely (though I think including guys like Sheather & Ronke in the midfield equation might be a stretch.) But fitting them all together into the one cohesive, functioning midfield group is another thing. It's not enough to just have big names all throughout your midfield. Look at GWS, look at the Bulldogs in the GF, dismantled by a midfield that doesn't run anywhere near as deep but functioned better.

In your list I'm seeing quite a few players destined for stardom. What that group may be lacking is a less flashy, more basic but still effective mid to balance out all of their more dynamic attributes. Another Mills basically. Not flashy but bloody reliable and kinda the glue that keeps the midfield together. Someone like that might be more easy to find in the second round, especially with Beatson's knack for finding mids deep in the draft. So I hope we use our first on a defender. I like Bazzo from the admittedly small glimpses I've seen of him/read about him, but wouldn't complain about Van Rooyen. Either way I'm not fussed. I think we're in a fortunate position with our midfield to have so many dynamic talents that we can afford to draft someone who doesn't necessarily have to be a key cog in it. That is a good spot to be in when most other teams are hoping and praying for and relying on their top pick becoming their generational talent.

Again you miss my point. That was the point. Dogs had anelite older style midfield. They got cleaned up. Dees have a few stars but mainly workers. The so called star studded midfield was cleaned up because they are all similar. There is not much diversity. The new midfield needs diversity.

Sheather is yet an unknown quantity so stop being negative. If you had bothered to watch any reserves you would know his development is going well. We have a good record with rookies.

As for Ronke how would you know what he can do in the mids? He hasn't been used there in the seniors, EVER! If you had bothered to watch reserves you would have seen him clean up several games as a mid. Very fast, hard in and under and has that Kizza style ability to extract.

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[Wolftone]

Rampe's days as an effective KPD are over.
Melican has been on average serviceable.
Gould and O'Connor appear to be medium defenders, not KPDs.
McLean and Amartey are forwards.
No KPD was tradeable.
Any KPD we draft will take time.
My guess is we let Brand go because we intended to draft Paddy in.
He's 25 (I think). He's tall, strong, has good foot skills. Not easy to knock off line.
I for one can't see any better option available. If he's ready, he plays. If not, he keeps working.

I saw a VFL game where he was impassable. He played a great game. His form up until he got suspended was very good. Then the season basically finished.

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[Wolftone]

So that Tom effectively takes up two list spots?

I think Paddy will be a very valuable player. He has the ability to shit a player down, while at the same time his reading of the play is super so he intercepts. Great move if the club do this.

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[LukeParkerno1]

No issue with Paddy as a rookie it’s more a “can’t lose”. However I hope we have done our due diligence

 

[caesar88]

Again you miss my point. That was the point. Dogs had anelite older style midfield. They got cleaned up. Dees have a few stars but mainly workers. The so called star studded midfield was cleaned up because they are all similar. There is not much diversity. The new midfield needs diversity.

Sheather is yet an unknown quantity so stop being negative. If you had bothered to watch any reserves you would know his development is going well. We have a good record with rookies.

As for Ronke how would you know what he can do in the mids? He hasn't been used there in the seniors, EVER! If you had bothered to watch reserves you would have seen him clean up several games as a mid. Very fast, hard in and under and has that Kizza style ability to extract.

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Ok

 

[Bloods86]

Again you miss my point. That was the point. Dogs had anelite older style midfield. They got cleaned up. Dees have a few stars but mainly workers. The so called star studded midfield was cleaned up because they are all similar. There is not much diversity. The new midfield needs diversity.

Sheather is yet an unknown quantity so stop being negative. If you had bothered to watch any reserves you would know his development is going well. We have a good record with rookies.

As for Ronke how would you know what he can do in the mids? He hasn't been used there in the seniors, EVER! If you had bothered to watch reserves you would have seen him clean up several games as a mid. Very fast, hard in and under and has that Kizza style ability to extract.

On JAT-L29 using BigFooty.com mobile app

You say Sheather is an unknown quantity, then when someone else is generally positive about him, but is uncertain that he'll be a midfield component, they're apparently being negative. He's not even been a consistent cog in reserves midfield, so I don't even know what you're going off on. I think he's developing well, but still a way to go before we talk about him as a solution to senior midfield gaps.

I watched Ronke in the televised reserves games he played. You are overstating his midfield case quite a bit. One game he had a good number of tackles, but played quite a bit up forward. He was well back in the pack of who was demanding seniors selection, but still got picked anyway and wasn't sighted. Personally, based off his form before injuries, and in reserves, and in his senior game, I was ready to delist, not put him into the midfield in seniors. If anything, I'd be playing Stephens or Taylor in senior midfield based on how they went about it in reserves, not Ronke.

 

[Callipygian]

Ronke is in competition for Wicks' pressure forward role. I don't think he's too close to being selected as a midfielder.

 

[dosser]

You say Sheather is an unknown quantity, then when someone else is generally positive about him, but is uncertain that he'll be a midfield component, they're apparently being negative. He's not even been a consistent cog in reserves midfield, so I don't even know what you're going off on. I think he's developing well, but still a way to go before we talk about him as a solution to senior midfield gaps.

I watched Ronke in the televised reserves games he played. You are overstating his midfield case quite a bit. One game he had a good number of tackles, but played quite a bit up forward. He was well back in the pack of who was demanding seniors selection, but still got picked anyway and wasn't sighted. Personally, based off his form before injuries, and in reserves, and in his senior game, I was ready to delist, not put him into the midfield in seniors. If anything, I'd be playing Stephens or Taylor in senior midfield based on how they went about it in reserves, not Ronke.

I honestly thought he played that senior game last season for the coaches to see if he still offered anything at that level before they considered his contract at the end of the season. The fact that he was abysmal and then received an extension is one of life's little mysteries.

 

[kickthething]

Ronke is in competition for Wicks' pressure forward role. I don't think he's too close to being selected as a midfielder.

nor in the Wicks forward pressure role.

 

[sataris]

Gulden, Campbell, McDonald had never played at senior level.. yet had a good pre-season and played round 1.
Paddy has played a season in the VFL, plus hes physically more ready.
Anyone can play round 1.
If Paddy plays round 1, I'd think our list is in a good place. It means, Paddy plays ahead of Melican, Gould, draftee, maybe Reid. It means Rampe and Fox (If Fox plays) play on mid sized forwards

If paddy plays round 1 , we're no longer scraping the bottom of the barrel, but the soggy earth beneath.

 

[SGBeach]

No issue with Paddy as a rookie it’s more a “can’t lose”. However I hope we have done our due diligence

Hes been training and playing at the Swans for 12 months.. I think the Swans have been VERY diligent.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I think Paddy will be a very valuable player. He has the ability to sh*t a player down, while at the same time his reading of the play is super so he intercepts. Great move if the club do this.

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I see it as a worthwhile throw-at-the-stumps.

Chance of success is probably reasonably low, but if the throw hits the pegs from 50m - it'd be like running out Virat Kohli. For a duck. In both innings.

 

[dosser]

I think Paddy will be a very valuable player. He has the ability to sh*t a player down, while at the same time his reading of the play is super so he intercepts. Great move if the club do this.

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Um... not sure what you are trying to say by putting that asterisk there, or is the censorship bot working overtime?

 

[SGBeach]

Gulden, Campbell and McDonald all played football at some level in the previous seasons leading up to the pre season and played in positions where positions in the team were open. Paddy has not played senior football since July 2018, played just 5 VFL games last year (of which two were in defence) and there is no clear opening in team as yet.



5 games is not a season. Let’s not kid ourselves here, we haven’t found ourselves the next fullback of the future who has only played 5 games in 4 years



Sure anyone can, but sometimes that is not a good thing.



Paddy only plays Round 1 because of injury. Not because of form. Playing two games in the VFL in defence isn’t enough to base this boards idea that Paddy is our answer to who plays Full Back. He could be later in the season or in 2023 but expecting him to come into the side Round 1 and be an upgrade that puts our list in a good place is just building Paddy up for a fall and to ultimately be a scapegoat when he doesn’t live up to the expectations placed upon him by so many.

I hear what you're saying, but disagree to an extent.
Paddy played more than 5 games last season. Not all games were for competition points, but all were against good opposition - many of whom were pushing for AFL selection. How many games? I don't know, but I would guess somewhere between 10-15.
There are always openings in the team. Tom McCartin is the only lock as a tall defender. And, Buddy is the only lock as a tall forward.

I was quoting Horse when saying 'anyone can play round 1'. The attitude at the Swans (according to Horse) is that it doesn't matter how you get to the club, whether you're a p1 or p100, or arrive through a trade costing 2 x 1st round picks or arrive as a delisted free agent.

If Paddys form in the pre-season warrants selection, he'll be selected.
Im not saying he will or won't, be he's certainly a chance.

Im a big fan (and always have been) of getting Paddy on the list. He was drafted at p1 so obviously had talent. Unfortunately for Paddy (like Reid, Melican, Naismith, Ling, Ronke) injuries have never allowed him to play week in week out for long enough to show his talent.
Buddy, Reid, Sinkers, are all KPP players on the edge of retirement. That leaves McDonald, T Mac, Amartey and McLean (who I dont reckon will make it - unpopular I know) as developing KPPs, and Melican as developing.

If Paddy fulfils his potential, he could become an elite KPP for the next 6-8 years

 

[Bulldogs85]

You guy’s are interested in our pick 23

 

[Bloods86]

You guy’s are interested in our pick 23

Good. Obviously don't know what's involved, but if we can get a couple of picks by mid 20s and keep one in the 30s, that'd be a handy position to be in. Grab one of JVR or Bazzo, one of Chesser or Wilmot etc, then hope we can grab a Warner, Sheldrick etc in the 30s somewhere.

Unfortunately I suspect we'd have to involve one of our 1st rounders next year, unless we're looking at moving up to 23 from 31 and then just wiping most of our value from our 2nd rounder next year.

 

[Bloods86]

I hear what you're saying, but disagree to an extent.
Paddy played more than 5 games last season. Not all games were for competition points, but all were against good opposition - many of whom were pushing for AFL selection. How many games? I don't know, but I would guess somewhere between 10-15.
There are always openings in the team. Tom McCartin is the only lock as a tall defender. And, Buddy is the only lock as a tall forward.

I was quoting Horse when saying 'anyone can play round 1'. The attitude at the Swans (according to Horse) is that it doesn't matter how you get to the club, whether you're a p1 or p100, or arrive through a trade costing 2 x 1st round picks or arrive as a delisted free agent.

If Paddys form in the pre-season warrants selection, he'll be selected.
Im not saying he will or won't, be he's certainly a chance.

Im a big fan (and always have been) of getting Paddy on the list. He was drafted at p1 so obviously had talent. Unfortunately for Paddy (like Reid, Melican, Naismith, Ling, Ronke) injuries have never allowed him to play week in week out for long enough to show his talent.
Buddy, Reid, Sinkers, are all KPP players on the edge of retirement. That leaves McDonald, T Mac, Amartey and McLean (who I dont reckon will make it - unpopular I know) as developing KPPs, and Melican as developing.

If Paddy fulfils his potential, he could become an elite KPP for the next 6-8 years

He played less than a handful of VFL games before getting suspended, then a couple more scratch matches later in the year, where he also played up forward for some of them. So 5 games as a KPD is probably fair. As with others, I'm fine with picking him up, but I'm not putting my hopes on him filling a spot in the 22, at least next year anyway. Pick him up, plus draft another KPD is the best coverage we can do in our weakest area. If it's someone like Dean or Alleer, then they're already playing at a comparable level and might be ahead of Paddy anyway (just more intercept types rather than the earlier possibles like JVR, Bazzo who will need more time to develop).

 

[Bulldogs85]

Good. Obviously don't know what's involved, but if we can get a couple of picks by mid 20s and keep one in the 30s, that'd be a handy position to be in. Grab one of JVR or Bazzo, one of Chesser or Wilmot etc, then hope we can grab a Warner, Sheldrick etc in the 30s somewhere.

Unfortunately I suspect we'd have to involve one of our 1st rounders next year, unless we're looking at moving up to 23 from 31 and then just wiping most of our value from our 2nd rounder next year.

Cal Twomey reported it and said Collingwood, Sydney and Geelong are interested in our pick.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You guy’s are interested in our pick 23

Hope we are probably with our future pick

 

[Membling]

Good. Obviously don't know what's involved, but if we can get a couple of picks by mid 20s and keep one in the 30s, that'd be a handy position to be in. Grab one of JVR or Bazzo, one of Chesser or Wilmot etc, then hope we can grab a Warner, Sheldrick etc in the 30s somewhere.

Unfortunately I suspect we'd have to involve one of our 1st rounders next year, unless we're looking at moving up to 23 from 31 and then just wiping most of our value from our 2nd rounder next year.

Involving a first rounder in 2022 for pick 23 would be absolutely brain dead unless Callaghan, Ward or JHF miraculously slipped.

 

[RUNVS]

You guy’s are interested in our pick 23

I mean not that I would be against getting it but I wonder why we want it specifically.

Do the Bulldogs want points? If so then I could see us trading picks 31 and 39 for it, if not then perhaps a future 2022 pick.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Involving a first rounder in 2022 for pick 23 would be absolutely brain dead unless Callaghan, Ward or JHF miraculously slipped.

Our first is likely useless next year with the academy bid

 

[RUNVS]

Our first is likely useless next year with the academy bid

We would have to be very confident one of our kids will go in the first round if we were open to trading our first selection for 2022, though in saying that we could be open to trading Melbourne's first pick.

 

[Membling]

Our first is likely useless next year with the academy bid

That is if the academy kids attract a bid that high. Prefer to split it next year or trade it out to 2023 if that is the case.

On current output, King would be a second rounder at a push.