List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[SwansProudly]

Nice write-up of Chesser
(Beaston in his interview saying they start looking at prospects from U16 competition, talking to their schools, teachers ad coaches.)

And his form was excellent. As a 16-year-old he got a taste of NAB League footy for Sandy and, as captain of the Vic Country under 16s side, he was named All-Australian for his explosiveness and athleticism. 
Representing Vic Country as an Associated Public School (APS) boy with the Sandringham Dragons, having initially been in the Murray Bushrangers pathway, Chesser has links with a cross-section of the draft pool. 
His roots are in Lavington, near Albury,

...

During his recovery, a quote bred into him by coach Jackson Kornberg rang true: “be where your feet are.” 
On top of his grounding from athletics coach Ken Little, Kornberg’s phrase adds another layer of professionalism to Chesser’s vernacular. He remains positive and grounded by what he can control.

He just has that impact on people that not many people can have,” Sandy skipper Josh Sinn said. 
....He just makes everyone around him a better person and player.” 
Melbourne Grammar firsts footy coach Rhys Gieschen was struck by his buoyance in the face of personal adversity as Chesser was unable to play a game for Melbourne Grammar. 
“He’s just a happy kid,” Gieschen said. 
“Despite the fact he had significant setbacks and didn’t play a game, I never saw him think about himself, or get frustrated or disappointed, he was always positive and didn’t require further acknowledgement.  

Chesser's leadership skills were on display at half time against Dandenong,
providing feedback to schoolmate, Jack Peris and captain, Josh Sinn

"He's just a happy kid": unflappable Campbell Chesser shows his appeal

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

 

[Bandicoot]

Side note as it was mentioned before.

I reckon the biggest reason for our change of game plan last season wasn’t Pyke idea specifically but a response to the change in the rules (6/6/6 followed by stationary man on the mark).

It just so happened that the list makeup we were working towards were the right type for us to adjust the game plan to suit the change to the game and the strengths of our players.

Pyke certainly made a large contribution to that but I reckon it was born out of the rule changes more than anything else (and we were recruiting to move toward this type of football years prior).

However, Longmire has been known for years to be one of the most defensively minded coaches in the AFL. He was taught this by Roosy and until this year the Swans played accordingly. We were an ugly team to watch and there were many games coming up on any given week that I was looking forward to watching rather than our game. This was the case for a number of years.
The 6/6/6 was in place the year before and it was only towards the end of that season that we saw a change in our mindset when we started to move the ball on far quicker and use the corridor more. The attacking game plan we took on this year was certainly helped by the introduction of the "stand" on the mark rule. However, all coaches had the opportunity to use that to their benefit yet it was predominately only us who did so.
There is a common phrase which I think applies here. "A leopard doesn't change it's spots". I cannot see how Longmire could have changed from one of the most defensive minded coaches to one of the most offensive without significant input from someone else on the coaching panel. Don Pyke is imo that person.
Anyway, whoever is responsible for it, I hope it continues.

 

[Bloods86]

However, Longmire has been known for years to be one of the most defensively minded coaches in the AFL. He was taught this by Roosy and until this year the Swans played accordingly. We were an ugly team to watch

Simply not true. While we've long had a defence first mantra, this completely ignores a significant chunk of the last decade under Horse in which we were one of the highest scoring sides a bunch of times, while also being one of the stingiest. We were capable of grinding out wins, but also putting teams to the sword.

 

[hairy biker]

FWIW the Hun's take on our draft;

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

Draft picks:

16, 31, 39, 70, 88
List needs: Key defenders, ball-winning midfielders, key forward depth, defensive run
Who could be available at first pick: Jacob van Rooyen, Josh Sinn, Tyler Sonsie, Campbell Chesser
Could be in the mix after that: Leek Alleer, Rhett Bazzo, Angus Sheldrick, Matt Roberts Mitch Knevitt, Corey Warner, Sam Banks, Angus Anderson (Academy), Charlie Molan, Alastair Lord, Shay Linke

Sydney is low on key defenders and van Rooyen, Alleer and Bazzo shape as possible options for their first and second-round selections. Van Rooyen looks to be the one that could be off the board the earliest of this trio, with Bazzo and Alleer a chance to sneak outside the top 30. A first-round slider may be too difficult to resist, with prospects like Sinn and Sonsie a chance of being available. Chesser or Sinn would help fill the void left by new Crow Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

with their penetrating kicks and speed. Alternatively, Tasmanian defensive distributor Banks presents as a value pick in the second half of the draft. With veteran Josh P. Kennedy remaining one of Sydney’s prime movers, some inside grunt could be found in the likes of Sheldrick or Knevitt with their second pick. Could South Australian Linke, a 190cm midfielder-forward who shone at stages during the national championships, be on their radar as a later selection?

November latest: The Swans have shown interest in Roberts so could they pounce in the 30s if the SA midfielder slides, like how many now believe he will. Or could it be Sheldrick who the Swans opt for to bolster their inside midfield stocks? Sydney is among the late-first round clubs in the frame for Butler and Howes, and van Rooyen could be in the mix as well. Warner, the brother of Swans young gun Chad, would make sense on a number of fronts, and the interest has been there.

In case you weren't keeping count, 17 players are name checked, but no mention for example of Taylor or Wilmot .

 

[rustycrate]

FWIW the Hun's take on our draft;

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

In case you weren't keeping count, 17 players are name checked, but no mention for example of Taylor or Wilmot.

Why didn't they mention the other 43 available picks. Not thorough enough for me. Poor research!!

 

[SwansProudly]

Interview a few days ago of Cheeser by Gerard Healy- of course selling the advantages of living Bondi

Campbell Chesser - Tuesday November 16

AFL Draft hopeful Campbell Chesser joined Sam and Gerard

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[TheMase]

However, Longmire has been known for years to be one of the most defensively minded coaches in the AFL. He was taught this by Roosy and until this year the Swans played accordingly. We were an ugly team to watch and there were many games coming up on any given week that I was looking forward to watching rather than our game. This was the case for a number of years.
The 6/6/6 was in place the year before and it was only towards the end of that season that we saw a change in our mindset when we started to move the ball on far quicker and use the corridor more. The attacking game plan we took on this year was certainly helped by the introduction of the "stand" on the mark rule. However, all coaches had the opportunity to use that to their benefit yet it was predominately only us who did so.
There is a common phrase which I think applies here. "A leopard doesn't change it's spots". I cannot see how Longmire could have changed from one of the most defensive minded coaches to one of the most offensive without significant input from someone else on the coaching panel. Don Pyke is imo that person.
Anyway, whoever is responsible for it, I hope it continues.

Defensive first yes but during our stronger periods we were one of the highest scoring teams in the competition. That changed largely because of the players that moved on and those that were developing that we gave game time to in order to advance them. I don’t think he changed his spots. Defence is still a bit part of the game plan.

6/6/6 did come a year earlier but our younger players weren’t yet ready to step up at that point. The final change to the man on the mark really worked for our players fleet of foot and it saw us become a much more attacking team. The timing of our player development and the game change aligned.

Others tried to do similar, some succeeded too and others faltered who did not alter their game plan to the new rule.

Look Pyke definitely played his part, absolutely. But to ignore the development that led up to that and what we were working towards (as you conceded towards the end of last year) is short sighted IMO and doesn’t give Horse and the other coaches (Including new inclusions Matthews and McVeigh) enough credit.

 

[anotherletdown]

I'm going to assume they just plain forgot that Wilmot exists, but if we have a few of Chesser, Draper, Taylor, Sonsie, JVR available at our first, that's a pretty good outcome. Fair chance we pick someone that no-one here has really talked about e.g. one of Kinnear's 'what the hell' scenarios he mentioned.

I noticed that too. No Wilmot, no Murley, No Long, no Howes, no Lohmann, no Dittmar... this draft is far deeper than expected... and i want us to trade up from 39 to get one of the above

p.s still filthy Hewetts compo wasn't tied to our 2nd

 

[rustycrate]

The next 4 days is like 4 months. Death by a thousand cuts.
I'm glad it is only a draft. Imagine if it was the real thing. It would take years before the final edit.

 

[Bandicoot]

So next Thursday night we will know all (or most of) all the questions we have asked over the past 200 odd pages.
We will then spend another 100 pages discussing the rights and wrongs of every decision and compare our draft hand to other clubs.
But, what do we talk about after that????
In my case, I'll be hanging out for the DT player positions and prices to be made known so I can start working on my 2022 DT squad.

 

[robbieando]

Defensive first yes but during our stronger periods we were one of the highest scoring teams in the competition. That changed largely because of the players that moved on and those that were developing that we gave game time to in order to advance them. I don’t think he changed his spots. Defence is still a bit part of the game plan.

6/6/6 did come a year earlier but our younger players weren’t yet ready to step up at that point. The final change to the man on the mark really worked for our players fleet of foot and it saw us become a much more attacking team. The timing of our player development and the game change aligned.

Others tried to do similar, some succeeded too and others faltered who did not alter their game plan to quit the new rule.

Look Pyke definitely played his part, absolutely. But to ignore the development that led up to that and what we were working towards (as you conceded towards the end of last year) is short sighted IMO and doesn’t give Horse and the other coaches (Including new inclusions Matthews and McVeigh) enough credit.

Also, it was clear early in 2019 that we were attempting a new game plan but we didn't have the players at the level required to perform to this game plan 100% of the time.

 

[Bandicoot]

Simply not true. While we've long had a defence first mantra, this completely ignores a significant chunk of the last decade under Horse in which we were one of the highest scoring sides a bunch of times, while also being one of the stingiest. We were capable of grinding out wins, but also putting teams to the sword.

We'll agree to disagree. That's fine.

 

[Bandicoot]

Defensive first yes but during our stronger periods we were one of the highest scoring teams in the competition. That changed largely because of the players that moved on and those that were developing that we gave game time to in order to advance them. I don’t think he changed his spots. Defence is still a bit part of the game plan.

6/6/6 did come a year earlier but our younger players weren’t yet ready to step up at that point. The final change to the man on the mark really worked for our players fleet of foot and it saw us become a much more attacking team. The timing of our player development and the game change aligned.

Others tried to do similar, some succeeded too and others faltered who did not alter their game plan to quit the new rule.

Look Pyke definitely played his part, absolutely. But to ignore the development that led up to that and what we were working towards (as you conceded towards the end of last year) is short sighted IMO and doesn’t give Horse and the other coaches (Including new inclusions Matthews and McVeigh) enough credit.

Yeah. I can see your argument.
I just remember watching the first few games this year. Particularly those against Brisbane and Richmond and I kept thinking to myself "who is this team? Their jumper is the same but they are a completely different team".
As I did say earlier and you agree, there is probably no ONE person totally responsible for this transformation although I truly believe Pyke has played a huge role in it, but I am so pleased that it has happened. We are now one of the most attractive teams to watch playing and I am so pleased for it. Let's hope it continues and we become even better at it.

 

[hairy biker]

The next 4 days is like 4 months. Death by a thousand cuts.
I'm glad it is only a draft. Imagine if it was the real thing. It would take years before the final edit.

Well that's your Christmas present sorted;





And remember a joke doesn't become a dad joke until it's full groan.

 

[caesar88]

IMO the origins of our current team and the changes that have helped it succeed began at the end of 2016.

 

[Kapers]

People complaining about a defensive mindset when it's literally what wins in 99% of sports.

Don't get me wrong, scoring is important, and one of the most impressive changes has been our ability to score at will, whereas years prior we struggled to put 2 goals together.

On that note, I still think defense always comes first, and anyone thinking we aren't a defensive first side is wrong, we just score off our opportunities better.

 

[Punts]

Look at the defensive groups of the last few premiers

ours is way off in regards to there defensive 6/7

need a kd

 

[Bandicoot]

People complaining about a defensive mindset when it's literally what wins in 99% of sports.

Don't get me wrong, scoring is important, and one of the most impressive changes has been our ability to score at will, whereas years prior we struggled to put 2 goals together.

On that note, I still think defense always comes first, and anyone thinking we aren't a defensive first side is wrong, we just score off our opportunities better.

I don't disagree with that at all. I do feel though that we had gone too far into a defensive mindset at the expense of scoring at all.
It seemed that our philosophy for some years was that it doesn't matter if we only score 8 goals because we will reduce our opponent to 7.

 

[caesar88]

People complaining about a defensive mindset when it's literally what wins in 99% of sports.

Don't get me wrong, scoring is important, and one of the most impressive changes has been our ability to score at will, whereas years prior we struggled to put 2 goals together.

On that note, I still think defense always comes first, and anyone thinking we aren't a defensive first side is wrong, we just score off our opportunities better.

Completely agree with this. I also think a common misconception is that contested footy = defensive footy.

I've always thought Horse is more the former than the latter, though he's even evolved beyond just relying on the contest to win games of footy now. In fact, the pendulum has probably swung so much the other way that we're a better ball movement side than we are a contested side.

 

[RUNVS]

People complaining about a defensive mindset when it's literally what wins in 99% of sports.

Don't get me wrong, scoring is important, and one of the most impressive changes has been our ability to score at will, whereas years prior we struggled to put 2 goals together.

On that note, I still think defense always comes first, and anyone thinking we aren't a defensive first side is wrong, we just score off our opportunities better.

Having a good defence is important but it is important to be a good scoring team too. Most teams who win the flag are capable of regularly scoring over 100 points.

 

[Bloods86]

I don't disagree with that at all. I do feel though that we had gone too far into a defensive mindset at the expense of scoring at all.
It seemed that our philosophy for some years was that it doesn't matter if we only score 8 goals because we will reduce our opponent to 7.

I'm still wondering at what part of Horse's reign you think we had this philosophy, barring the odd run of poor form. If you go back and look at our percentages for much of this period, including some of the margins, it just doesn't add up. Yes, some games we just ground out, that'll happen with any team.

If you're talking about 2019-20, then we just weren't very good and at times went defensive to avoid getting blown away (but not as defensive as Damien Hardwick wants us to believe). Even in 2020 we could see the signs of much of what we did this year, sans Pyke (who has still been valuable).

 

[Ticky009]

FWIW the Hun's take on our draft;

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

In case you weren't keeping count, 17 players are name checked, but no mention for example of Taylor or Wilmot .

On reflection I don't mind the somewhat huge list they've provided, it's probably a bit more realistic that simply picking 3 of the most likely.

Also indicates that as per usual they have no idea who we might be looking at.

 

[rustycrate]

On reflection I don't mind the somewhat huge list they've provided, it's probably a bit more realistic that simply picking 3 of the most likely.

Also indicates that as per usual they have no idea who we might be looking at.

I would rather they be more thorough though and mention everyone's name in the draft.

 

[SeanM]

I remember during the season, someone saying that McVeigh had done a good job organising the forward group and giving them clear roles. I imagine that would translate to better defensive pressure in winning the ball upfield and better efficiency in attack.

 

[Ticky009]

An strange assessment in parts. Mentions we 'gave away pick 12 in the trade period' like we booted it for nothing in return.

Draft focus: Sydney

A carefully considered draft should see Sydney extract value from their series of picks.

www.zerohanger.com