List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[RUNVS]

I agree re Sheldrick, but I don't think he will last that long until pick 39.

My top 3 are now
1. Zac Taylor - classy user of the ball
2. Bazzo - out and out KPD
3. Dittmar - Kennedy like in the contest and wrecking ball tackler

I am really second guessing myself between Sonsie/JVR/Taylor. I would be very happy with getting one of them but truth be told I am not entirely sure who I would pick out of the three of them if all three were available at pick 18.

 

[Bloods86]

Roll the dice on Knevitt anyone? JPK replacement by the sound of it if he comes good. Ranked in this at about our pick at 20.

AFL Draft Power Rankings: No. 1 player locked in, bolters make their moves

ESPN.com.au's expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of November with South Australian prospect Jason Horne-Francis firming as North Melbourne's first ever No. 1 selection.

www.espn.com.au

Like what I've read on Knevitt and originally thought of him around our first pick, along with Wilmot/Chesser. But I've firmly put him out of mind, since we're picking up Anderson as an inside mid, and we seem keen on the likes of Warner and Dittmar later on, so given inside mid isn't close to top of our needs list in the first place, 1 or 2 who can play in the role at this draft would be enough.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Before we end up quibbling over the definitions of 'integral' (essential / fundamental) and 'freakish', I probably wouldn't put Gulden (nor would I expect him to be) in those categories over our season. He was important in some games yes, but as C88 has mentioned, the main factors in our relative success were our senior players, and some of the more established youngsters having good years too (not to mention the tactics). Sure, the first years had some important cameos, Warner had some big games, and Gulden certainly had a few big games, played more than the other 1st years, but he was also just serviceable at times (which is to be expected). Basically, I guess it comes down to whether we'd have finished 7th without Gulden and the answer is yes. We'd have felt the impact more from one of those other names missing.

No-one's slighting Gulden, I'm rapt with his 1st year, but he wasn't one of our key, 'integral' players for the year (unless you go beyond say the top 10-15 in your definition). Look forward to the day, probably soon, when he is though.

i think you're overlooking the energy and x-factor gulden brought to the team ... even when he wasn't at his best in games, he lifted players around him with those moments only outstanding players produce
his vision is remarkable, his kicking is as good as any first-year player i can think of and his flair and composure i think helped encourage the likes of mcinerney in particular and warner take the game on ...
i'm not arguing 'freakish' but i think he was very much an integral part of the team's dramatic improvement on the previous two years

 

[caesar88]

i take most of what you post with several grains of salt, because i think you like to be contradictory for the sake of crapping on every few minutes ...
sometimes what you post makes some sense ...
but if you couldn't see the importance of gulden to the swans team through his first season, you lack even the insight i try to give you credit for
gulden made the swans better from the first quarter of his first game and you could tell that by how senior players responded to him as the season wore on
for a 'small' 18-year-old, gulden's impact on the team was beyond significant
he might not have stood out like, say, chris judd but he was an integral contributor by any definition

Ok

 

[Bloods86]

i think you're overlooking the energy and x-factor gulden brought to the team ... even when he wasn't at his best in games, he lifted players around him with those moments only outstanding players produce
his vision is remarkable, his kicking is as good as any first-year player i can think of and his flair and composure i think helped encourage the likes of mcinerney in particular and warner take the game on ...
i'm not arguing 'freakish' but i think he was very much an integral part of the team's dramatic improvement on the previous two years

He certainly brought some energy to the team, was great to see a 1st year giving others instructions. Reckon his kicking slipped as the year went on, but he did have a lay off and his role changed a bit. I think we'll still disagree on 'integral', especially when the signs of improvement were already there in 2020 at times, we just got key players back, things clicked more consistently, others took another step, and of course, the likes of Gulden, Warner showed some of what the future holds.

 

[Bandicoot]

I'm going to assume they just plain forgot that Wilmot exists, but if we have a few of Chesser, Draper, Taylor, Sonsie, JVR available at our first, that's a pretty good outcome. Fair chance we pick someone that no-one here has really talked about e.g. one of Kinnear's 'what the hell' scenarios he mentioned.

Fortunately, Kinnear does not make the first selection anymore.

 

[Bloods86]

Fortunately, Kinnear does not make the first selection anymore.

Might have been put on the media thread, but I did see this the other day. Sounds like Best Available (again whatever that means). I imagine we just have a way of assigning a pure talent / form score to players, put them in a list, cross them off as they go and then that makes the choice easy. I'd like to think needs comes into it if there's only a couple of picks in it, but who knows.

Swans' draft strategy revealed - AFL NSW / ACT

Simon Dalymple, the National Recruiting Manager at the Sydney Swans, spoke to AFL NSW/ACT’s Play On podcast, hosted by Ryan O’Keefe and Simon Smyth. Dalrymple’s appearance on the podcast is timely, with just one week to go until the best…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

 

[Bandicoot]

i think you're overlooking the energy and x-factor gulden brought to the team ... even when he wasn't at his best in games, he lifted players around him with those moments only outstanding players produce
his vision is remarkable, his kicking is as good as any first-year player i can think of and his flair and composure i think helped encourage the likes of mcinerney in particular and warner take the game on ...
i'm not arguing 'freakish' but i think he was very much an integral part of the team's dramatic improvement on the previous two years

I believe the biggest reason for our improvement last year was the change of game style which Pyke was responsible for. We no longer played the kick, mark, stop and wait. Kick short, wait again. then kick it back to where w]it all started.
As much as I love my team, I hated the way we played prior to last year. 10 goals in previous years was like kicking 100 points. Even when we had total domination over another side, we would only win a quarter by 2 goals so when momentum turned our lead was very quickly overtaken.
There's no doubt that the players loved playing with more freedom as well.

 

[Bandicoot]

Might have been put on the media thread, but I did see this the other day. Sounds like Best Available (again whatever that means). I imagine we just have a way of assigning a pure talent / form score to players, put them in a list, cross them off as they go and then that makes the choice easy. I'd like to think needs comes into it if there's only a couple of picks in it, but who knows.

Swans' draft strategy revealed - AFL NSW / ACT

Simon Dalymple, the National Recruiting Manager at the Sydney Swans, spoke to AFL NSW/ACT’s Play On podcast, hosted by Ryan O’Keefe and Simon Smyth. Dalrymple’s appearance on the podcast is timely, with just one week to go until the best…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

Apparently Dalrymple ranks players and when it comes to our first pick the highest ranked player on his list who is yet to be taken is the one we will select. Picks for needs are done in later picks.

 

[Ticky009]

Might have been put on the media thread, but I did see this the other day. Sounds like Best Available (again whatever that means). I imagine we just have a way of assigning a pure talent / form score to players, put them in a list, cross them off as they go and then that makes the choice easy. I'd like to think needs comes into it if there's only a couple of picks in it, but who knows.

Swans' draft strategy revealed - AFL NSW / ACT

Simon Dalymple, the National Recruiting Manager at the Sydney Swans, spoke to AFL NSW/ACT’s Play On podcast, hosted by Ryan O’Keefe and Simon Smyth. Dalrymple’s appearance on the podcast is timely, with just one week to go until the best…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

Great get, I'll also add this one to the media thread.

 

[Bloods86]

I believe the biggest reason for our improvement last year was the change of game style which Pyke was responsible for. We no longer played the kick, mark, stop and wait. Kick short, wait again. then kick it back to where w]it all started.
As much as I love my team, I hated the way we played prior to last year. 10 goals in previous years was like kicking 100 points. Even when we had total domination over another side, we would only win a quarter by 2 goals so when momentum turned our lead was very quickly overtaken.
There's no doubt that the players loved playing with more freedom as well.

I think there's a few games from last year which show that it wasn't all Pyke, although I think he's expanded on it with the advantage of better / fit personnel.

 

[Bloods86]

Apparently Dalrymple ranks players and when it comes to our first pick the highest ranked player on his list who is yet to be taken is the one we will select. Picks for needs are done in later picks.

Yeah and I don't mind this approach generally (particularly earlier stages of a rebuild where you need all kinds), just if there's a clear need that can be met with a player a couple of spots behind, and there wasn't much of a gap in overall 'score' that determines his rankings, I'd hope we ignore the list. Like if we take an inside mid at 19, where there was a small difference in 'score' over a KPD who might be ranked 21 for example, in my opinion it'd be madness.

 

[TheMase]

Side note as it was mentioned before.

I reckon the biggest reason for our change of game plan last season wasn’t Pyke idea specifically but a response to the change in the rules (6/6/6 followed by stationary man on the mark).

It just so happened that the list makeup we were working towards were the right type for us to adjust the game plan to suit the change to the game and the strengths of our players.

Pyke certainly made a large contribution to that but I reckon it was born out of the rule changes more than anything else (and we were recruiting to move toward this type of football years prior).

 

[SwansProudly]

Might have been put on the media thread, but I did see this the other day. Sounds like Best Available (again whatever that means). I imagine we just have a way of assigning a pure talent / form score to players, put them in a list, cross them off as they go and then that makes the choice easy. I'd like to think needs comes into it if there's only a couple of picks in it, but who knows.

Swans' draft strategy revealed - AFL NSW / ACT

Simon Dalymple, the National Recruiting Manager at the Sydney Swans, spoke to AFL NSW/ACT’s Play On podcast, hosted by Ryan O’Keefe and Simon Smyth. Dalrymple’s appearance on the podcast is timely, with just one week to go until the best…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

Here is the Mongrel Punts top 30 pick - always good for a read as they're posts are never mainstream wash and repeat.

Restricted Content - The Mongrel Punt

Content from our archives commencing with the 2018 season is restricted to members only. Gotta look after the people that look after us. Want a peek?

themongrelpunt.com

From the 10th rated player, the next 8 mids are:
10 – Matthew Johnson, Midfielder, 192cm, 82kg
11 – Josh Rachele, Forward/Midfielder, 180cm, 78kg
12 – Matthew Roberts, Midfielder, 183cm, 81kg
14 – Josh Sinn, Defender/Midfielder, 186cm, 73 kg
16 – Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Midfielder, 188cm, 70kg
17 – Campbell Chesser, Midfielder/Defender, 186cm, 83kg
18 – Arlo Draper, Midfielder/Forward, 186cm, 75kg
19 – Zac Taylor, Midfielder, 180cm, 74kg

 

[Bloods86]

From the 10th rated player, the next 7 mids are:
10 – Matthew Johnson, Midfielder, 192cm, 82kg
11 – Josh Rachele, Forward/Midfielder, 180cm, 78kg
12 – Matthew Roberts, Midfielder, 183cm, 81kg
14 – Josh Sinn, Defender/Midfielder, 186cm, 73 kg
17 – Campbell Chesser, Midfielder/Defender, 186cm, 83kg
18 – Arlo Draper, Midfielder/Forward, 186cm, 75kg
19 – Zac Taylor, Midfielder, 180cm, 74kg

Let's say Dalrymple's rankings (approved by Kinnear surely) match those perfectly (Taylor for one is generally rated later by others, Roberts isn't even in Cal Twomey's top 35). Reckon I'd be fine with Sinn, Chesser, Draper, Taylor as they aren't inside mids (and they fill needs). Higher ranked ones won't get to us.

 

[hairy biker]

Might have been put on the media thread, but I did see this the other day. Sounds like Best Available (again whatever that means). I imagine we just have a way of assigning a pure talent / form score to players, put them in a list, cross them off as they go and then that makes the choice easy. I'd like to think needs comes into it if there's only a couple of picks in it, but who knows.

Swans' draft strategy revealed - AFL NSW / ACT

Simon Dalymple, the National Recruiting Manager at the Sydney Swans, spoke to AFL NSW/ACT’s Play On podcast, hosted by Ryan O’Keefe and Simon Smyth. Dalrymple’s appearance on the podcast is timely, with just one week to go until the best…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

Dalrymple on from 14.43 (to 35)
Some takeaways with regards to recruitment;

Where is the game going?
What does the coach value in players ? (and hope the coach doesn't change)
Player has to be elite in something
Early selections are best player available
He likes players with clean ball handling (big on not fumbling ground balls)

The list is currently well balanced, Ladhams coming in has helped.
Mentions KPDs are always difficult to find.
You need a good and deep midfield to be successful and wants to keep adding to that area.

Praises the quality of the Academy and NSW state programs.
In terms of players that he has recruited he talks up McInerney in particular and Rowbottom, Stephens has had a challenging time, needs to play a block of games, Dalrymple still confident, Logan just needs time and progressing well.

Honest about his fallout with the Bulldogs and move to Sydney, ie; new bosses in list management/recruiting with different philosophies, coach overruling the recruiters and had a good relationship with Beatson, mentions the Swans culture and interested in the challenge of working for an interstate team.

 

[Kapers]

Wants a player who is clean with ball I hand and wants a deep midfield.

Got no clue why Hewett was pushed out, but sounds like Taylor is our man.

 

[Punts]

Taylor not really in a range though is he

won’t he be top 12?

 

[RUNVS]

Wants a player who is clean with ball I hand and wants a deep midfield.

Got no clue why Hewett was pushed out, but sounds like Taylor is our man.

Yes the "deep midfield" is telling as right now our midfield is good but it is razor-thin in terms of depth. That heavily implies we are going for a mid and a clean midfielder as well.

 

[Bloods86]

Taylor not really in a range though is he

won’t he be top 12?

Other way. He's rated more mid-late 20s by most. Some have him early 20s, late teens around our pick.

 

[SwansProudly]

Kinnear Beatson

 

[Kiama Chris]

Side note as it was mentioned before.

I reckon the biggest reason for our change of game plan last season wasn’t Pyke idea specifically but a response to the change in the rules (6/6/6 followed by stationary man on the mark).

It just so happened that the list makeup we were working towards were the right type for us to adjust the game plan to suit the change to the game and the strengths of our players.

Pyke certainly made a large contribution to that but I reckon it was born out of the rule changes more than anything else (and we were recruiting to move toward this type of football years prior).

Agree 100%.
Also, we started with our rebound 50s kicking over the oppo defensive wall via longer kicks like Dawson. That was destroyed by Hawks who set up deeper with tall timber and our plan B didn't work.
Then we changed to running the ball out more often and gave ourselves 3 options. We became a lot more effective at rebounding but of course it was a bit less dynamic.
Our attack still has moments of stop and wait as well as frantic forward movement but we are much more certain of hitting our targets.
Team patterns (others have explained better) have also given us a stable game plan.
Our whole coaching team deserves a lot of credit IMO. Each line looks more effective. Having Pyke and Cox in the box and Horse on the bench has worked a treat too.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Let's say Dalrymple's rankings (approved by Kinnear surely) match those perfectly (Taylor for one is generally rated later by others, Roberts isn't even in Cal Twomey's top 35). Reckon I'd be fine with Sinn, Chesser, Draper, Taylor as they aren't inside mids (and they fill needs). Higher ranked ones won't get to us.

I personally like the look of Chesser out of that group. Good skills, strength and versatile. If we go mid hope we can pick up Bazzo with 31 (32?) and Warner or Dittmar with 39.

 

[Bloods86]

Kinnear Beatson

Was kinda waiting for him to unleash his ideal 3 picks, rather than just a general job description and some common sense around who might make it.

Joking obviously.

 

[Bloods86]

I personally like the look of Chesser out of that group. Good skills, strength and versatile. If we go mid hope we can pick up Bazzo with 31 (32?) and Warner or Dittmar with 39.

Same. I'd put Wilmot in there with him. Half-backs now, but probably become wingers/outside mids. If Bazzo, then Warner slid to our 2nd and 3rd picks, I reckon we'd see Kinnear popping some champagne in the booth. If we grabbed Chesser/Wilmot up front, then Bazzo and Warner, I'd be wanting in via Zoom call to celebrate with them.