List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[rustycrate]

2021 NAB AFL U19 Championships | Western Australia v South Australia | 28 August 2021




If you have a couple of hours this game is worth a look.

Lots of players from the upcoming draft.

Bazzo and Van Rooyen played in defence.
Amiss and Williams up forward.
Corey Warner played out on a wing and looked a class above and also had a run inside.
Dittmar and Sheldrick starred in the midfield. Both hard nuts loving the physical stuff.
Dittmar really smashes players in his tackles. Built like a tank. Gave some very good handballs out of congestion too. Hope we pick him up. Sporting a big blond mullet.

Horne Francis was negated by Sheldrick for most of the game. Commentator said he spoke to his coach who said reminded him of a cross between Fyfe and Dangerfield. Big call. Apparently his first game against his own age group for the last 18 months!!

Other players include
Arlo Draper
Wowodin
Wanganeen-Millera
Brown
McVee
O'Loughlin

 

[caesar88]

Read quite a few evaluations of our list in regards to the draft, and there have been two overriding view points that I personally think are very narrow-minded in regards to how they see our list.

1. The "Swans' midfielders Kennedy and Parker are ageing, and need young mids coming through beneath them" point of view. This is just plain dumb, and ignorant of our drafting over the last five or so years that show we clearly have been preparing for this and building towards the next midfield group. We wouldn't have drafted guys like Florent, Warner, Stephens, McInerney, Campbell and Gulden, and also make the moves to shift Heeney & Mills into the midfield more, unless we thought they could be the nucleus of a great midfield. They're developing, and now all we've gotta do is get them in there, whether it through mass influx or drip-feeding them into permanent roles one-by-one.

2. The "Swans ranked [insert ranking] in [insert stats category] so [insert draftee] would be good for them" point of view. Again, it's just ignorant of who is actually on our list. An issue like our clearances for example, we have the players who can help with that already on our list. We just have to wait for them to develop as they're still 19, 20, 21 etc. So any 18 year old we draft, unless he is a rarity like Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

, will encounter the exact same issue. I welcome the added talent in next week's draft and the depth they will create, but am fully expecting none of them to play a major role in the team next year, not even a key defender like Van Rooyen or Bazzo, and that is our greatest area of need.

 

[rustycrate]

Read quite a few evaluations of our list in regards to the draft, and there have been two overriding view points that I personally think are very narrow-minded in regards to how they see our list.

1. The "Swans' midfielders Kennedy and Parker are ageing, and need young mids coming through beneath them" point of view. This is just plain dumb, and ignorant of our drafting over the last five or so years that show we clearly have been preparing for this and building towards the next midfield group. We wouldn't have drafted guys like Florent, Warner, Stephens, McInerney, Campbell and Gulden, and also make the moves to shift Heeney & Mills into the midfield more, unless we thought they could be the nucleus of a great midfield. They're developing, and now all we've gotta do is get them in there, whether it through mass influx or drip-feeding them into permanent roles one-by-one.

2. The "Swans ranked [insert ranking] in [insert stats category] so [insert draftee] would be good for them" point of view. Again, it's just ignorant of who is actually on our list. An issue like our clearances for example, we have the players who can help with that already on our list. We just have to wait for them to develop as they're still 19, 20, 21 etc. So any 18 year old we draft, unless he is a rarity like Sam Walsh, will encounter the exact same issue. I welcome the added talent in next week's draft and the depth they will create, but am fully expecting none of them to play a major role in the team next year, not even a key defender like Van Rooyen or Bazzo, and that is our greatest area of need.

I welcome the additional talent too. I also like our organic list builds because you can watch your young players develop in the magoos especially now in the expanded televised VFL competition with its supposed higher standard.

 

[Nuggetz]

I think so too. From what I have seen of him he definitely has the tools to make it as an AFL player. He was just super unlucky with injuries and then when a spot did open up for him his mother died and he understandably went home to his family.

Would we consider picking him up again? Rather take a punt on him as a KPD instead of someone like Paddy Ryder.

 

[RUNVS]

Would we consider picking him up again? Rather take a punt on him as a KPD instead of someone like Paddy Ryder.

I would not be against picking him up again. I don't think we will but I would be pleasantly surprised if we did.

 

[Jeffers]

Are we there yet?

 

[anotherletdown]

Not sure I agree with that. Sure people mature from 18 to 24 but ultimately a person is largely who they are going to be by the time they are 18.

Shit... that's seriously bad news for me

 

[Bonz]

Not sure I agree with that. Sure people mature from 18 to 24 but ultimately a person is largely who they are going to be by the time they are 18.

I'm going to completely disagree with this.

I was a completely different person at 24 than I was at 18.

And at 30 I am a completely different person again.

 

[Ticky009]

Are we there yet?

I knows! God this drags on and on and on!

 

[Ticky009]

List of Sydney academy players nominated for the Draft. We wish them all the best.

Sydney
Angus Anderson
William Edwards
Kye Pfrengle
Liam Puncher
Felix Rogers
Pierce Roseby

 

[Kiama Chris]

Read quite a few evaluations of our list in regards to the draft, and there have been two overriding view points that I personally think are very narrow-minded in regards to how they see our list.

1. The "Swans' midfielders Kennedy and Parker are ageing, and need young mids coming through beneath them" point of view. This is just plain dumb, and ignorant of our drafting over the last five or so years that show we clearly have been preparing for this and building towards the next midfield group. We wouldn't have drafted guys like Florent, Warner, Stephens, McInerney, Campbell and Gulden, and also make the moves to shift Heeney & Mills into the midfield more, unless we thought they could be the nucleus of a great midfield. They're developing, and now all we've gotta do is get them in there, whether it through mass influx or drip-feeding them into permanent roles one-by-one.

2. The "Swans ranked [insert ranking] in [insert stats category] so [insert draftee] would be good for them" point of view. Again, it's just ignorant of who is actually on our list. An issue like our clearances for example, we have the players who can help with that already on our list. We just have to wait for them to develop as they're still 19, 20, 21 etc. So any 18 year old we draft, unless he is a rarity like Sam Walsh, will encounter the exact same issue. I welcome the added talent in next week's draft and the depth they will create, but am fully expecting none of them to play a major role in the team next year, not even a key defender like Van Rooyen or Bazzo, and that is our greatest area of need.

Last year's draft crop, especially Gulden, were freakish in how soon they became integral contributors. But all 4 who played significant time showed signs of wear (Gulden, Campbell, McDonald and Warner from 2019). Only Stephens escaped that fate, possibly playing fewer minutes. All will be stronger this year.
It's unrealistic to expect this year's crop to show so much so soon, especially as those spots are already taken so opportunities will be fewer.
I hope they have good preseasons and begin to apply selection pressure.

 

[Bandit55]

Odds to be traded back to Geelong $1.01

It might depend on whether his father has any hard feelings towards the Cats. I'm sure that Matty tried out there, but didn't make it.

 

[caesar88]

Last year's draft crop, especially Gulden, were freakish in how soon they became integral contributors. But all 4 who played significant time showed signs of wear (Gulden, Campbell, McDonald and Warner from 2019). Only Stephens escaped that fate, possibly playing fewer minutes. All will be stronger this year.
It's unrealistic to expect this year's crop to show so much so soon, especially as those spots are already taken so opportunities will be fewer.
I hope they have good preseasons and begin to apply selection pressure.

I am not sure they were integral contributors, nor that their performance as a whole was "freakish". As I said in the best 22 thread, we were a great team at various stages of the season without any of them. And I have always been a firm subscriber to the idea that a team is only as good as it's senior core.

The following all had good-to-great years: Heeney, Cunningham, Hayward, Papley, Kennedy, Florent (at times), Mills, Reid (first half of year), Buddy, Parker, Hewett, Hickey, Dawson, Fox and Lloyd. When you have that many senior, experienced players all having quality years, in many cases their career-best years, then the kids can get away with being window dressing. So I was not surprised at all that the kids found the going easy this year.

It was very different from 2020 for example, when the kids had to play such major roles, in many cases before their time, because our senior core was hammered with injuries and form woes. The kids had to get a lot of the game going for themselves and try and learn tempo footy etc within games without the leadership framework or leadership by example around them.

 

[the hypnotoad]

I am not sure they were integral contributors, nor that their performance as a whole was "freakish". As I said in the best 22 thread, we were a great team at various stages of the season without any of them. And I have always been a firm subscriber to the idea that a team is only as good as it's senior core.

The following all had good-to-great years: Heeney, Cunningham, Hayward, Papley, Kennedy, Florent (at times), Mills, Reid (first half of year), Buddy, Parker, Hewett, Hickey, Dawson, Fox and Lloyd. When you have that many senior, experienced players all having quality years, in many cases their career-best years, then the kids can get away with being window dressing. So I was not surprised at all that the kids found the going easy this year.

It was very different from 2020 for example, when the kids had to play such major roles, in many cases before their time, because our senior core was hammered with injuries and form woes. The kids had to get a lot of the game going for themselves and try and learn tempo footy etc within games without the leadership framework or leadership by example around them.

i take most of what you post with several grains of salt, because i think you like to be contradictory for the sake of crapping on every few minutes ...
sometimes what you post makes some sense ...
but if you couldn't see the importance of gulden to the swans team through his first season, you lack even the insight i try to give you credit for
gulden made the swans better from the first quarter of his first game and you could tell that by how senior players responded to him as the season wore on
for a 'small' 18-year-old, gulden's impact on the team was beyond significant
he might not have stood out like, say, chris judd but he was an integral contributor by any definition

 

[Ticky009]

Here is the Mongrel Punts top 30 pick - always good for a read as they're posts are never mainstream wash and repeat.

Restricted Content - The Mongrel Punt

Content from our archives commencing with the 2018 season is restricted to members only. Gotta look after the people that look after us. Want a peek?

themongrelpunt.com

 

[Vin Rogue]

Without meaning to diminish the importance of the clinical psychologist's assessments in the recruiting process, in terms of predicting the likelihood of future go-home factor, I would consider them almost useless. It's impossible to know how an individual will be as a 24 year old based off how they are as an 18 year old.

You present a new argument. You have not responded to my main point, that generalisations regarding drafting are useless when assessing the potential for players to entertain seeking another Club.
What you now say is that as people grow ...they change. So? Does that mean that we do not try to understand the go home factors at play for each player and try to counter them?
We disagree on the value of a clinical psychologist's role in assessing the "flight" risks of our potential draftees. Fair enough. On this point we can end discussion.

 

[ShireSwan]

He wants to come now but doesn't mean he'll want to stay. There's no evidence that being at the same club as your brother will prevent the player from moving, let alone if it's your cousins. This may be the problem with drafting based on bloodlines, if I had to guess. Sure they want to be a part of the club with a relative pre-draft. Who wouldn't want to be drafted to the same club as a relative, rather than to a club where you know literally no one?

But it becomes a very thin reason for essentially wanting to relocate your life and career. It's not as if they are your parents or partners, so being able to have coffee dates and training sessions with a brother or cousin isn't anywhere near reason enough for the player to want to stay if other circumstances make him want to go.

Circumstances like home sickness (having a single cousin in Conway's case or a brother in Warner's case would not remedy this), interstate partners (this caused Brad Hill to request a trade away from his brother), or cost of living (this one's self explanatory...)

Christ, you must be bored.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Righto. Here’s DQ’s phantom “ideal” draft:

No pick swaps
Sinn at 16
Bazzo at 31
Sheldrick at 39

Paddy Mac in pre-season draft

The curve-ball could be a package of 31+39 to either the BraveDogs (23) or Carlton (25).

C88 reckons Dittmar is firmly in the frame - whilst I feel he’s “poor man’s Sheldrick” at this stage, I’d raise a glass to hearing his name too.

 

[Swansujelly]

rekon we're right into Ditmarr

 

[Ticky009]

Righto. Here’s DQ’s phantom “ideal” draft:

No pick swaps
Sinn at 16
Bazzo at 31
Sheldrick at 39

Paddy Mac in pre-season draft

The curve-ball could be a package of 31+39 to either the BraveDogs (23) or Carlton (25).

C88 reckons Dittmar is firmly in the frame - whilst I feel he’s “poor man’s Sheldrick” at this stage, I’d raise a glass to hearing his name too.

Cats rumoured to have pick 23 all but locked up.
Bazzo sounds great but uncertain he's going to last to our pick.

 

[Bloods86]

i take most of what you post with several grains of salt, because i think you like to be contradictory for the sake of crapping on every few minutes ...
sometimes what you post makes some sense ...
but if you couldn't see the importance of gulden to the swans team through his first season, you lack even the insight i try to give you credit for
gulden made the swans better from the first quarter of his first game and you could tell that by how senior players responded to him as the season wore on
for a 'small' 18-year-old, gulden's impact on the team was beyond significant
he might not have stood out like, say, chris judd but he was an integral contributor by any definition

Before we end up quibbling over the definitions of 'integral' (essential / fundamental) and 'freakish', I probably wouldn't put Gulden (nor would I expect him to be) in those categories over our season. He was important in some games yes, but as C88 has mentioned, the main factors in our relative success were our senior players, and some of the more established youngsters having good years too (not to mention the tactics). Sure, the first years had some important cameos, Warner had some big games, and Gulden certainly had a few big games, played more than the other 1st years, but he was also just serviceable at times (which is to be expected). Basically, I guess it comes down to whether we'd have finished 7th without Gulden and the answer is yes. We'd have felt the impact more from one of those other names missing.

No-one's slighting Gulden, I'm rapt with his 1st year, but he wasn't one of our key, 'integral' players for the year (unless you go beyond say the top 10-15 in your definition). Look forward to the day, probably soon, when he is though.

 

[Bloods86]

Righto. Here’s DQ’s phantom “ideal” draft:

No pick swaps
Sinn at 16
Bazzo at 31
Sheldrick at 39

Paddy Mac in pre-season draft

The curve-ball could be a package of 31+39 to either the BraveDogs (23) or Carlton (25).

C88 reckons Dittmar is firmly in the frame - whilst I feel he’s “poor man’s Sheldrick” at this stage, I’d raise a glass to hearing his name too.

Would be happy enough with that. We don't have 16 though, it'll effectively be 18/19. Not sure Sinn gets that far. Bazzo at 31 would be incredible, also don't think he'll get that far. Sheldrick probably also doesn't get that far, but sounds like he'd be a great pick-up. I think we're just a few picks out at each step unfortunately.

Dittmar has apparently been interviewed by the club a bunch of times (similar to Warner), so I think it's more a media report that we're keen on him. We might have a go at 39, if others we're into are gone.

 

[rustycrate]

Righto. Here’s DQ’s phantom “ideal” draft:

No pick swaps
Sinn at 16
Bazzo at 31
Sheldrick at 39

Paddy Mac in pre-season draft

The curve-ball could be a package of 31+39 to either the BraveDogs (23) or Carlton (25).

C88 reckons Dittmar is firmly in the frame - whilst I feel he’s “poor man’s Sheldrick” at this stage, I’d raise a glass to hearing his name too.

I agree re Sheldrick, but I don't think he will last that long until pick 39.

My top 3 are now
1. Zac Taylor - classy user of the ball
2. Bazzo - out and out KPD
3. Dittmar - Kennedy like in the contest and wrecking ball tackler

 

[Bloods86]

Here is the Mongrel Punts top 30 pick - always good for a read as they're posts are never mainstream wash and repeat.

Restricted Content - The Mongrel Punt

Content from our archives commencing with the 2018 season is restricted to members only. Gotta look after the people that look after us. Want a peek?

themongrelpunt.com

I'm going to assume they just plain forgot that Wilmot exists, but if we have a few of Chesser, Draper, Taylor, Sonsie, JVR available at our first, that's a pretty good outcome. Fair chance we pick someone that no-one here has really talked about e.g. one of Kinnear's 'what the hell' scenarios he mentioned.

 

[ShireSwan]

Roll the dice on Knevitt anyone? JPK replacement by the sound of it if he comes good. Ranked in this at about our pick at 20.

AFL Draft Power Rankings: No. 1 player locked in, bolters make their moves

ESPN.com.au's expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of November with South Australian prospect Jason Horne-Francis firming as North Melbourne's first ever No. 1 selection.

www.espn.com.au