List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[go_the_dockers]

You don't think around $700k isn't the going rate for a highly skilled young midfielder who has improved every year of their career so far?

Cerra is a year younger than Bolton. Is Bolton worth that? That's what we'd be paying if we got him to come across.

So like I said, if we lose him and he's smashing it next year how are you going to rationalise that?

700k is the most I would pay. I don't think you can afford to offer him 800k, without hurting yourself long term.

From all reports we have already offered 700k so if he leaves then I am fine with it.

 

[Paracleet]

Your best comeback is Connor Blakely as a comparison? Wow. Guess you got me there (???)

 

[mightymouse75]

i

Your reasoning is floored on several levels:
1) More resources applied here is not going to somehow better isolate which local players are going to be superior players when they are 22 as opposed to 18. If it did then the filth, the richest club by some margin with scouts out the wazoo, would have taken Allen before Brander. It would be diminishing returns since what would be the point of investing twice as much in one area with less players without a commensurate ability to secure them (I.E. We can't make extra picks in the range 10 to 30 materialize every year).
2) To the last point even those extra picks wouldn't guarantee access to the players, since their 17 other clubs also scouting those players. It relies on the idea that WA players are somehow undervalued. If that is true then someone show me the metrics. Do they overperform on say ranking points to draft position relative to Vic players? Average possessions? Browlow votes?
3) Diminished application of resources in the area with the most players must inevitably result in missing players from that area. Most particularly your late picks.
4) It presupposes WA players are somehow magically better. Otherwise how could we justify the extra resources? Or do you think a few hundred thousand in the cap is worth A 50% reduction in access to the best players?

BTW equally in this day and age I see no particular advantage in our recruiting HQ being in Melbourne. Even if we continue to expend the greater part of our resources there, there is absolutely no reason it can't be managed from here given the remote working lessons everyone has learned in the last year and a bit. Its purely because its where the head recruiter wants to live. (Could probably pay another whole FT recruiter just on flight cost savings*).

Plus I think we could make better use of informal and unpaid or part time resources to better squeeze value out of late and rookie local picks.

*If the soft cap is that tight for us maybe Belly should stay in Perth during away games and they could give a local fan a 6 pack to to hold up the board at 1/4 and 3/4 time.

Cheers for that. It does not quite quell my thoughts of impending doom if we lose cerra, Darcy, serong etc to Vic clubs or we can't entice players from other clubs to come home if we have a bulging salary cap. (Not that this has been great for our club in recent years)
Out of interest how many of West coasts a graders are locals ? It would be over 50%.
NN, McGovern, jk, darling, Liam Ryan, Yeo, Allen.

 

[theGav56]

English is a year older and went pick 19 and Darcy pick 38.

People who said we should have gone for English at pick 8 and instead we went Logue.

Total madness.

Darcy has been an awesome pick up.

English and Darcy would be a sensational Duo.

 

[sumavich]

English would cost too much.
The only player we should be going after is Bolton

 

[raffrox]

View attachment 1154998

It should be tonygeeks law!

 

[CapitalA]

English would cost too much.
The only player we should be going after is Bolton

Bolton would cost more and probably goto shit back in Perth.

 

[Big Animal]

wouldn't mind Logan. Logan + Treacy combo up forward, Logue + Cox + Chapman down back, and Darcy in the middle is a long term KP line up that would give us quite a period of finals over the next 10 years you would think.

 

[go_the_dockers]

wayToGo_ had a terrific post on it earlier on but I like breaking the different list management areas into their own categories because I think our actual drafting doesnt get enough credit on here. Seriously, I'd argue since 2000 I'd argue the drafting has been elite, it has to be because our trading has been just about the worst in the league

Since start of rebuild (2016 draft)
Drafting: A
We've missed on like 2 drafts picks, not missed on a first round pick (talent wise anyway), and got some bargains in Ryan, Freddy, Darcy and Treacy
Player trading in: D
Its only not an F because I like the acquisition of experience depth players for chips
Player trading out: B
Think we've received fair compo for every player except Langdon, I didnt like that trade at the time and I think I've been proven right. Neale was fair compensation because every recruiter in the land knew the top 7 in that draft were basically all number 1 picks.
Pick Trading: C
I think our live trading and trading for points has been garbage for the most part and has been saved by excellent drafting. We have yet to properly take advantage of another trading for points
Developing: A
Probably ties in with drafting a lot but we seem to have seen growth across almost all draftees
List Management: C
Probably suffers a bit to our "draft best available" approach but we have spent too much on defenders and the fact we literally dont have a spare KPF outside our best 22 is unbelievable. Lucky Treacy has saved this a bit or it might be an F

Before the negative nancies jump down my through "how come we are 6-7 then", that is currently irrelevant. Its another 4-5 years before the full effects of a complete list turnover fully take effect

The other one is timing.

The difference between a good trade and a bad trade could only be if you are in the premiership window or not.

 

[Paracleet]

i


NN, McGovern, jk, darling, Liam Ryan, Yeo, Allen.

Dude literally just one of those players was a first round pick by West Coast. Two were trades. This is not an argument in favouring local with early picks.

 

[Tbonefreo]

Allen was considered a sure thing at the time.

That gc trade to the Eagles was just amazing.

 

[salim malik]

Ffs 5 years of minimum success and 20 years of misery. Our drafting, trading has been abysmal.
Like it or not Fremantle has failed in identifying local talent. The list of missed local talent is long and heartbreaking.

 

[Eski3]

I swear to god some of the comments in this thread sound like they come from the west coast cheer squad

 

[Purple Jesus]

Allen was considered a sure thing at the time.

That gc trade to the Eagles was just amazing.

You win some you lose some...

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Ffs 5 years of minimum success and 20 years of misery. Our drafting, trading has been abysmal.
Like it or not Fremantle has failed in identifying local talent. The list of missed local talent is long and heartbreaking.

As you can tell I disagree and think it’s simplistic to blanket fail our drafting because we’ve not won a flag. Our ‘success’ was built very much off good drafting that went back to 2000. Plenty of clubs have drafted worse than us over that period, few, if any have traded worse. If we were as bad at drafting as you say we’d be more like Carlton and Essendon over the last 20 years.

 

[Swiggy]

wouldn't mind Logan. Logan + Treacy combo up forward, Logue + Cox + Chapman down back, and Darcy in the middle is a long term KP line up that would give us quite a period of finals over the next 10 years you would think.

Would be great but I'd rather draft as theyd want to much for Logan.

hopefully draft JVR or Williams

 

[ilikepotatoes]

You win some you lose some...
View attachment 1155190

Which thread is this from? From memory I wanted Fogarty and Stephenson. I'd love to check.

 

[Van_Dyke]

Which thread is this from? From memory I wanted Fogarty and Stephenson. I'd love to check.

Live Event - 2017 AFL Draft - #2, #5, #42, #60, #66, #70, #77, #80, #90

Okay: two games till season's end and barring a miracle by GC, our ladder position is set - so assuming we lose our next two (...today's perfomance makes it likely... ugh!) and assuming we don't trade up or down pre-draft, then pick five is ours. So: the immortal question - in everyone's...

www.bigfooty.com

could have sworn I voted, suspect I wanted a LDU/Brayshaw combo

 

[Joao]

I definitely wanted Stephenson. I think I may have combined that with either Fogarty or Rayner.

 

[salim malik]

As you can tell I disagree and think it’s simplistic to blanket fail our drafting because we’ve not won a flag. Our ‘success’ was built very much off good drafting that went back to 2000. Plenty of clubs have drafted worse than us over that period, few, if any have traded worse. If we were as bad at drafting as you say we’d be more like Carlton and Essendon over the last 20 years.

What do you class as success? If you haven't noticed we are in the least successful clubs basket.
We have never had a Coleman winner, obviously never a Norm Smith medalist. One losing GF appearance , one preliminary win and a couple of finals wins. Fyfe and his Brownlows the highlight of 25 years.
We are not a successful club. I love the club but it's delusional to put us in with the successful clubs.
If our drafting was moderately on target any three of Naughton, Allen, Darling , Kelly, Ryan, Yeo could have lined up for us Saturday.

 

[ilikepotatoes]

Live Event - 2017 AFL Draft - #2, #5, #42, #60, #66, #70, #77, #80, #90

Okay: two games till season's end and barring a miracle by GC, our ladder position is set - so assuming we lose our next two (...today's perfomance makes it likely... ugh!) and assuming we don't trade up or down pre-draft, then pick five is ours. So: the immortal question - in everyone's...

www.bigfooty.com

could have sworn I voted, suspect I wanted a LDU/Brayshaw combo

Cheers.

I voted LDU/Brayshaw.

My memory is clearly lacking.

 

[Demons09]

Its obvious the one area we’ve failed in drafting is key position forwards, for some reason we dont like pulling that trigger on draft night.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

What do you class as success? If you haven't noticed we are in the least successful clubs basket.
We have never had a Coleman winner, obviously never a Norm Smith medalist. One losing GF appearance , one preliminary win and a couple of finals wins. Fyfe and his Brownlows the highlight of 25 years.
We are not a successful club. I love the club but it's delusional to put us in with the successful clubs.
If our drafting was moderately on target any three of Naughton, Allen, Darling , Kelly, Ryan, Yeo could have lined up for us Saturday.

Maybe I’m being generous giving our drafiting an A grade but there are so many factors that go into winning a flag outside drafting and personally our drafting has been the best aspect. We’ve had one decent coach in our history which I think is evident in more than just on-field success of them all, I’ll stick to my guns that trading has been the worst in the comp, that’s a big handicap Tom over come and aside from Port we were given the worst assets to start a club from of any in the AFLs history.

Despite all that, since 2000, our win/loss record is pretty close to 50/50 if I’m not mistaken, a decidedly middle of the road club. Isnt like only 6 clubs have won a flag in 15 years? They aren’t easy to win, not winning win doesn’t make us an abysmal club, there is a scale from 1-10 here, sure, not successful, but not abysmal.

And let’s be real here, your major gripe and issue with drafting is and always has been not focusing on local talent almost exclusively and while I’ve softened to preferring local if possible, I don’t think applying like a 50% loading to local talent is the way to build success or we wouldn’t have two of the greatest legends of the game (yet alone our club), run out in purple

 

[heypenny]

What do you class as success? If you haven't noticed we are in the least successful clubs basket.
We have never had a Coleman winner, obviously never a Norm Smith medalist. One losing GF appearance , one preliminary win and a couple of finals wins. Fyfe and his Brownlows the highlight of 25 years.
We are not a successful club. I love the club but it's delusional to put us in with the successful clubs.
If our drafting was moderately on target any three of Naughton, Allen, Darling , Kelly, Ryan, Yeo could have lined up for us Saturday.

I think the obvious 'misses' from the above was Naughton and Darling. Naughton was right under our noses playing for Peel and was within the range. The others from the 2017 draft were never seen as top 5 picks. Yeo didn't fill a need in 2013 when we were flying. Darling was a shocker though. He slid to our pick at 20 and was a local boy, and filled a need.

Anyway, let's move on. Let's stick to our strengths which is drafting. I hope we continue to prioritise the draft.

 

[Joao]

I think the obvious 'misses' from the above was Naughton and Darling. Naughton was right under our noses playing for Peel and was within the range. The others from the 2017 draft were never seen as top 5 picks. Yeo didn't fill a need in 2013 when we were flying. Darling was a shocker though. He slid to our pick at 20 and was a local boy, and filled a need.

Anyway, let's move on. Let's stick to our strengths which is drafting. I hope we continue to prioritise the draft.

Naughton was playing defense at Peel. We had defenders. It's wasn't obvious he'd be a gun forward.