List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[wakojako]

Our 2nd rounder probably ends up in the late 20s/ early 30s after bids and whatnot, I'd take a punt on Clark for that (assuming we take a KPF with our first). It's a risk but no more so than picking a bloke in the draft there.

You are forgetting Motlop.

 

[Joao]

You are forgetting Motlop.

I am not forgetting him because he hasn't done anything of note to push him anywhere near top 30.

4 colts games averages:
15 disposals
1.5 goals
3 tackles

He might get drafted, but at the moment I reckon we are getting him Cat B.

Also, we can still match bids for him even if we trade our 2nd for Clark, so your point is irrelevant.

 

[Taylor]

You are forgetting Motlop.

As long as he is bid on at 21 onward it only impacts our second rounder (assuming pick 21 is a 2nd rounder after bed) for the following year.

And we can trade that future second for a third next year and a third this year if we want a pick later.

 

[Bicco]

Yeah, I'm not sure how he'd feel seeing guys like Higgins and Smith waltz into the side. They have been good players and he can't expect to be selected ahead of them, but at Freo he would probably get more of a chance to shine. Stick him on the wing, he has serious wheels and a bit of that arrogant/confident attitude which I like.

As someone else said ... a Crozier type trade. Sick of giving up reasonable players for essentially nothing. It's time to be on the other side of the fence.

I get your point but we got BHill for a 2nd round pick and he won our B&F. On paper Wilson has been great, some don’t like him. We’ve done ok with trades barring some glaring exceptions IMO.

 

[wayToGo_]

I'm hopeful someone who keeps historical data will be able to work this out far quicker than I can...

Other than Fyfe, Logue, Chapman, Polak and Parker are there any other WA players over 190cm that Freo have drafted in the first four rounds of the national draft in its history?

 

[apuchar]

I'm hopeful someone who keeps historical data will be able to work this out far quicker than I can...

Other than Fyfe, Logue, Chapman, Polak and Parker are there any other WA players over 190cm that Freo have drafted in the first four rounds of the national draft in its history?

Apeness, campbell

 

[wayToGo_]

Apeness, campbell

Looking only at WA players.

 

[tonygeeks]

I'm hopeful someone who keeps historical data will be able to work this out far quicker than I can...

Other than Fyfe, Logue, Chapman, Polak and Parker are there any other WA players over 190cm that Freo have drafted in the first four rounds of the national draft in its history?

Gilmore maybe Clement what pick was Johno , how tall was mora , not too many though is there


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[fnerd]

I’d say there’d have to be a few more but Depressing isn’t?
..even worse when you consider the amount of kpp talent (a lot of them not even top 10 picks) that’s come out of WA AND continues to do so .

 

[fnerd]

Gilmore maybe Clement what pick was Johno , how tall was mora , not too many though is there


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

Johnno was pre season pick, Gilmore rookie?...can’t remember with clement , maybe a zone selection?

 

[wayToGo_]

Gilmore maybe Clement what pick was Johno , not too many though is there

As fnerd says Johno was pre-season draft, Clement zone selection. Gilmore was - ended up on the rookie list later.

I probably should have remembered the head coach! Oops

Still, around half a dozen or so seems ridiculous for 25 years of drafting.

I just want KPFs really, even if they aren't from WA. But WA has a plethora this year (and some next year too). Please invest you bastards!

 

[Van_Dyke]

I'm hopeful someone who keeps historical data will be able to work this out far quicker than I can...

Other than Fyfe, Logue, Chapman, Polak and Parker are there any other WA players over 190cm that Freo have drafted in the first four rounds of the national draft in its history?

our current coach, houghton, clem michael are some that come to mind. likes of mora and blakely would be pushing 190

looking at this, which only has players who have played, is a grim list when you sort by height (https://afltables.com/afl/stats/alltime/fremantle.html)

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

As fnerd says Johno was pre-season draft, Clement zone selection. Gilmore was - ended up on the rookie list later.

I probably should have remembered the head coach! Oops

Still, around half a dozen or so seems ridiculous for 25 years of drafting.

I just want KPFs really, even if they aren't from WA. But WA has a plethora this year (and some next year too). Please invest you bastards!

Good find WTG, ridiculous. KPFs alone are gold and we are in a state that churns em out. I’ve changed my opinion somewhat on KPFs whereby they are hard to find so I'd be giving them a massive boost in my ratings as a drafter simply for being from WA. If we don’t take Williams or JVR with our first pick I’ll actually be beyond pissed

 

[Tbonefreo]

Good find WTG, ridiculous. KPFs alone are gold and we are in a state that churns em out. I’ve changed my opinion somewhat on KPFs whereby they are hard to find so I'd be giving them a massive boost in my ratings as a drafter simply for being from WA. If we don’t take Williams or JVR with our first pick I’ll actually be beyond pissed

You know what will happen but......

 

[fnerd]

KPFs alone are gold and we are in a state that churns em out. I’ve changed my opinion somewhat on KPFs whereby they are hard to find so don’t risk going interstate with them unless a rookie pick.

And that’s just it , the strike rate of success for wa kpf/kpd and even rucks from this state per total draftees has got to be higher than any of the other states .

It’s what’s made our reluctance to draft them so the much more frustrating .

When it’s mentioned about all the top 10 kpfs that are /have been busts , particularly of recent times they’ve all been exclusively hyped up vic TAC players.

Conversely I’m struggling to think of the last wa kpf (or kpd/ruck)taken in the first round of the last 10 years that hasn’t turned out to be at least decent.

 

[apuchar]

Looking only at WA players.

I thought I deleted that. I re-read your post and noticed that you specified WA

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

And that’s just it , the strike rate of success for wa kpf/kpd and even rucks from this state per total draftees has got to be higher than any of the other states .

It’s what’s made our reluctance to draft them so the much more frustrating .

When it’s mentioned about all the top 10 kpfs that are /have been busts , particularly of recent times they’ve all been exclusively hyped up vic TAC players.

Conversely I’m struggling to think of the last wa kpf (or kpd/ruck)taken in the first round of the last 10 years that hasn’t turned out to be at least decent.

Sorry, I changed my post a little bit, I wouldnt begrudge drafting an interstate KPF but they'd have to be rated A LOT higher than a WA based one, I'd have easily taken King for example.

I've probably softened on "drafting best available" a little as well. Salary cap usage is so important and we are not a club that is able to keep / attract players on reputation (ie WC / Hawks), drafting interstate will inevitably cost us a at least an extra 10% in salary cap to keep around. Draft local, develop a winning culture and a stronger onfield brand then you can keep those interstate players easier without overpaying.

 

[Joao]

Sorry, I changed my post a little bit, I wouldnt begrudge drafting an interstate KPF but they'd have to be rated A LOT higher than a WA based one, I'd have easily taken King for example.

I've probably softened on "drafting best available" a little as well. Salary cap usage is so important and we are not a club that is able to keep / attract players on reputation (ie WC / Hawks), drafting interstate will inevitably cost us a at least an extra 10% in salary cap to keep around. Draft local, develop a winning culture and a stronger onfield brand then you can keep those interstate players easier without overpaying.

I think the best available with your first rounder is ok in general, but if your hand is forced (ie us not having any forwards) then I think you have be flexible and draft needs in the first round too. This may us the fabled trade down option too if our first ends up a fair bit higher than the KPFs are expected.

 

[Alfonz]

And that’s just it , the strike rate of success for wa kpf/kpd and even rucks from this state per total draftees has got to be higher than any of the other states .

It’s what’s made our reluctance to draft them so the much more frustrating .

When it’s mentioned about all the top 10 kpfs that are /have been busts , particularly of recent times they’ve all been exclusively hyped up vic TAC players.

Conversely I’m struggling to think of the last wa kpf (or kpd/ruck)taken in the first round of the last 10 years that hasn’t turned out to be at least decent.

It's not just the strike rate in the first round. It's essentially the whole draft. A quick scan of footywire (could have missed some) and these are the WA talls taken in the last 10 or so years. Main draft only, so also add Hogan and McGovern and maybe there are others. McGovern and Cameron are probably OK for picks in the 40s, and I would say the only proper busts are the 3 not on any list. Of course, Freo managed to not only get 2 of those, but traded to do so.

1	4	Sydney	Logan McDonald	Sydney	5
1	6	Hawthorn	Denver Grainger-Barras	Hawthorn	0
1	14	Fremantle	Heath Chapman	Fremantle	6
1	3	Melbourne	Luke Jackson	Melbourne	13
1	18	Port Adelaide	Mitch Georgiades	Port Adelaide	13
1	9	Western Bulldogs	Aaron Naughton	Western Bulldogs	60
2	21	West Coast	Oscar Allen	West Coast	45
2	28	GWS	Sam Taylor	GWS	41
1	8	Fremantle	Griffin Logue	Fremantle	31
1	19	Western Bulldogs	Timothy English	Western Bulldogs	53
2	37	West Coast	Josh Rotham	West Coast	21
3	48	Sydney	Darcy Cameron	Collingwood	14
2	35	Western Bulldogs	Marcus Adams	Brisbane	43
3	43	Adelaide	Mitch McGovern	Carlton	79
1	14	GWS	Cameron McCarthy		70
2	29	GWS	Rory Lobb	Fremantle	109
3	43	West Coast	Tom Barrass	West Coast	89
3	44	Sydney	Aliir Aliir	Port Adelaide	71
P	28	West Coast	Fraser McInnes		14
2	32	Geelong	Joel Hamling	Fremantle	86
2	34	Geelong	Shane Kersten		66
P	26	West Coast	Jack Darling	West Coast	221

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It's not just the strike rate in the first round. It's essentially the whole draft. A quick scan of footywire (could have missed some) and these are the WA talls taken in the last 10 or so years. Main draft only, so also add Hogan and McGovern and maybe there are others. McGovern and Cameron are probably OK for picks in the 40s, and I would say the only proper busts are the 3 not on any list. Of course, Freo managed to not only get 2 of those, but traded to do so.

1	4	Sydney	Logan McDonald	Sydney	5
1	6	Hawthorn	Denver Grainger-Barras	Hawthorn	0
1	14	Fremantle	Heath Chapman	Fremantle	6
1	3	Melbourne	Luke Jackson	Melbourne	13
1	18	Port Adelaide	Mitch Georgiades	Port Adelaide	13
1	9	Western Bulldogs	Aaron Naughton	Western Bulldogs	60
2	21	West Coast	Oscar Allen	West Coast	45
2	28	GWS	Sam Taylor	GWS	41
1	8	Fremantle	Griffin Logue	Fremantle	31
1	19	Western Bulldogs	Timothy English	Western Bulldogs	53
2	37	West Coast	Josh Rotham	West Coast	21
3	48	Sydney	Darcy Cameron	Collingwood	14
2	35	Western Bulldogs	Marcus Adams	Brisbane	43
3	43	Adelaide	Mitch McGovern	Carlton	79
1	14	GWS	Cameron McCarthy		70
2	29	GWS	Rory Lobb	Fremantle	109
3	43	West Coast	Tom Barrass	West Coast	89
3	44	Sydney	Aliir Aliir	Port Adelaide	71
P	28	West Coast	Fraser McInnes		14
2	32	Geelong	Joel Hamling	Fremantle	86
2	34	Geelong	Shane Kersten		66
P	26	West Coast	Jack Darling	West Coast	221

Jesus, what a sobering list, aside from McInnes, you'd argue of the players we've been associated with, all of them could be the bottom half of that list and we'd probably have 2 of the bottom 3 (McCarthy, Kersten and McInness).

 

[Alfonz]

Decided to go back through older main drafts to about the point where everyone is retired (except Mundy of course). Still a pretty bloody good list apart from the top 2 and a skinny rake from WC. Of course, Freo stepped up to the plate yet again to draft the only dud who never managed to played a game, and our tradition of trying to salvage physical/mental wrecks (Gumby/Clark) is yet again on display.

2	25	North Melbourne	Aaron Black		57
3	36	Fremantle	Joel Houghton		0
1	2	West Coast	Nicholas Naitanui	West Coast	190
1	17	Geelong	Harry Taylor		280
P	18	Richmond	Alex Rance		200
2	20	West Coast	Tony Notte		2
2	23	Essendon	Tayte Pears		70
4	54	Essendon	Cale Hooker	Essendon	208
1	2	Essendon	Scott Gumbleton		35
1	4	Brisbane	Matthew Leuenberger		137
2	29	West Coast	Eric MacKenzie		147
1	4	Carlton	Joshua Kennedy	West Coast	266
1	7	Essendon	Patrick Ryder	St Kilda	258
1	9	Brisbane	Mitchell Clark		106
1	5	Hawthorn	Lance Franklin	Sydney	303

 

[Joao]

Haha, it's not enough we haven't drafted the good ones but we actively trade in the bad ones (Hogan not on the list either).

Freo much?

 

[fnerd]

It's not just the strike rate in the first round. It's essentially the whole draft. A quick scan of footywire (could have missed some) and these are the WA talls taken in the last 10 or so years. Main draft only, so also add Hogan and McGovern and maybe there are others. McGovern and Cameron are probably OK for picks in the 40s, and I would say the only proper busts are the 3 not on any list. Of course, Freo managed to not only get 2 of those, but traded to do so.

1	4	Sydney	Logan McDonald	Sydney	5
1	6	Hawthorn	Denver Grainger-Barras	Hawthorn	0
1	14	Fremantle	Heath Chapman	Fremantle	6
1	3	Melbourne	Luke Jackson	Melbourne	13
1	18	Port Adelaide	Mitch Georgiades	Port Adelaide	13
1	9	Western Bulldogs	Aaron Naughton	Western Bulldogs	60
2	21	West Coast	Oscar Allen	West Coast	45
2	28	GWS	Sam Taylor	GWS	41
1	8	Fremantle	Griffin Logue	Fremantle	31
1	19	Western Bulldogs	Timothy English	Western Bulldogs	53
2	37	West Coast	Josh Rotham	West Coast	21
3	48	Sydney	Darcy Cameron	Collingwood	14
2	35	Western Bulldogs	Marcus Adams	Brisbane	43
3	43	Adelaide	Mitch McGovern	Carlton	79
1	14	GWS	Cameron McCarthy		70
2	29	GWS	Rory Lobb	Fremantle	109
3	43	West Coast	Tom Barrass	West Coast	89
3	44	Sydney	Aliir Aliir	Port Adelaide	71
P	28	West Coast	Fraser McInnes		14
2	32	Geelong	Joel Hamling	Fremantle	86
2	34	Geelong	Shane Kersten		66
P	26	West Coast	Jack Darling	West Coast	221

Good work.
Yeah I was reasonably confident pretty much most of the wa talls taken in the entire draft ended up at least half decent , was just more thinking in regards to first rounders as to dispel the stupid myth that somehow drafting talls there ,was risky and prove my point (that wa kpp) are about as good as safe bet as you can get*-

Which again ,makes our ongoing reluctance to draft almost none of them about as unforgivable in terms of drafting blunders there is out there

*going by that list and seeing we’ve be responsible for about the only fails on there just makes the whole exercise even more laughable

 

[ignoramus]

It's not just the strike rate in the first round. It's essentially the whole draft. A quick scan of footywire (could have missed some) and these are the WA talls taken in the last 10 or so years. Main draft only, so also add Hogan and McGovern and maybe there are others. McGovern and Cameron are probably OK for picks in the 40s, and I would say the only proper busts are the 3 not on any list. Of course, Freo managed to not only get 2 of those, but traded to do so.

1	4	Sydney	Logan McDonald	Sydney	5
1	6	Hawthorn	Denver Grainger-Barras	Hawthorn	0
1	14	Fremantle	Heath Chapman	Fremantle	6
1	3	Melbourne	Luke Jackson	Melbourne	13
1	18	Port Adelaide	Mitch Georgiades	Port Adelaide	13
1	9	Western Bulldogs	Aaron Naughton	Western Bulldogs	60
2	21	West Coast	Oscar Allen	West Coast	45
2	28	GWS	Sam Taylor	GWS	41
1	8	Fremantle	Griffin Logue	Fremantle	31
1	19	Western Bulldogs	Timothy English	Western Bulldogs	53
2	37	West Coast	Josh Rotham	West Coast	21
3	48	Sydney	Darcy Cameron	Collingwood	14
2	35	Western Bulldogs	Marcus Adams	Brisbane	43
3	43	Adelaide	Mitch McGovern	Carlton	79
1	14	GWS	Cameron McCarthy		70
2	29	GWS	Rory Lobb	Fremantle	109
3	43	West Coast	Tom Barrass	West Coast	89
3	44	Sydney	Aliir Aliir	Port Adelaide	71
P	28	West Coast	Fraser McInnes		14
2	32	Geelong	Joel Hamling	Fremantle	86
2	34	Geelong	Shane Kersten		66
P	26	West Coast	Jack Darling	West Coast	221

So, if I'm reading this right:

2020 = used first pick for WA tall, no other WA talls available at next pick
2019 = opted for eventual Rising Star winner over Georgiades (though, you could argue that the jury is still out on Young, and Serong + Georgiades was preferable), no other WA talls available at next pick
2018 = no WA talls available (am I reading this right?)
2017 = opted for (future captain) Brayshaw and (Rolls Royce) Cerra over Naughton and Allen (or Taylor), no other WA talls available at next pick
2016 = used first pick on WA tall (downgraded so as not to "reach"), opted for Sean Darcy over Darcy Cameron, no other WA talls available at next pick
2015 = opted for Darcy Tucker over Marcus Adams / Spud McGovern

Don't have time to do the rest, but if I've read that right (probably haven't), the problem is that there haven't been any WA talls available at our pick, barring situations where I would argue the player(s) picked just as needed (if not more so) and likely to have as good (if not better) careers.

The problem hasn't been with the drafting across that period. It's been the trading that has left Freo with a weaker draft hand.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Looks like Freo is now in the mid-season draft.. thanks to the medical team..

Who do we look like picking up!