Training 2021 Pre-Season Training Discussion

[hey shorty]

does anyone know what his family reasons for possibly wanting to leave may be? If they are ones of more recent times, then it is understandable they could be a factor. If they are ones now being used that our recruiters should have seen rad flags on before the draft we took him in, or if he outright lied to us prior to the draft and we didn't pick up on it from all the background checks etc, then some serious lessons need to be learned out of it

It's been mentioned here.

 

[Scorpus]

And yet if we had kept them we'd be a lot better off.

Retaining players instead of losing them for nothing is generally better, yes

What's even better is drafting someone else in the first place

 

[hey shorty]

Retaining players instead of losing them for nothing is generally better, yes

What's even better is drafting someone else in the first place

Well we didn't exactly lose Lever for nothing, but we dudded ourselves with Gibbs a week later.

 

[Scorpus]

Well we didn't exactly lose Lever for nothing, but we dudded ourselves with Gibbs a week later.

What is worse, turning Lever into Gibbs, or turning Davis and another top 10 pick into Brad Crouch who we let leave for pick 23?

 

[hey shorty]

What is worse, turning Lever into Gibbs, or turning Davis and another top 10 pick into Brad Crouch who we let leave for pick 23?

I think we both know that answer.

 

[Scorpus]

I think we both know that answer.

 

[Vader]

What is worse, turning Lever into Gibbs, or turning Davis and another top 10 pick into Brad Crouch who we let leave for pick 23?

We got 8 years of service out of Brouch before he left, and we also got Luke Brown as part of the deal. There is no comparison whatsoever between the two trades.

 

[Scorpus]

We got 8 years of service out of Brouch before he left, and we also got Luke Brown as part of the deal. There is no comparison whatsoever between the two trades.

We also got two first round picks out of Lever, before we ****ed it up later.

Similar sort of pattern. Do something good, only to **** it up later

 

[BRL121]

Yeah, I dont begrudge him if he asks for a trade due to his circumstances. Losing him for nothing will hurt though. At least Hately was for opportunity in a stacked midfield when we used PSD.

Will be interesting to see what we can get for his personal move.

Well, we'll get very little. Also, there's no reason now to play him at all this year, either on team performance or development grounds. The argument to increase his trade value is void in this case.

 

[Murray2503]

"Nathan Van Berlo

Nathan Van Berlo

Age

38

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

8.5

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.3

5star

MG

250.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

1.4

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

0.6

3star

Presser Mach 16" on YouTube

 

[Mismatched]

He could reasonably argue that he was another victim of our poor list management, which kept dead wood players on the list for far too long. At the time when Knight wanted midfield experience, he was stuck behind a SANFL midfield consisting of Thompson (in his final year), Grigg & CEY - all dead wood players. That meant limited opportunities to push his case in the SANFL midfield - and thus virtually no opportunities in the AFL midfield.

... of course, you could always argue that Knight himself was a dead wood player who was kept on our list for too long. I subscribe to this view. Knight was never as good as he thought he was.

Whilst I agree with your premise in general, Im not sure Grigg ever kept Knight out of a midfield position. He played 20 games, most of which as a sub or half forward.

I also doubt Knight ever utterly dominates the SANFL like Grigg has at stages. Grigg lacked athleticism and probably application, not talent.

Knight just wasn’t good enough in the end. He was at best a role player in a challenging side. He had no place hanging around a rebuild, our focus needs to be on finding the our next A-Graders, not on banking role players.

 

[Peter Doherty]

If we can get a late first for McAsey we take it and cut our losses.

 

[Scorpus]

If we can get a late first for McAsey we take it and cut our losses.

We'll be lucky to get a third round pick. More likely someone will try the PSD route

 

[DJ75]

"Nathan Van Berlo Presser Mach 16" on YouTube

without watching it I'm guessing he is looking forward to seeing young D Mac in the side this week?

 

[DJ75]

Well, we'll get very little. Also, there's no reason now to play him at all this year, either on team performance or development grounds. The argument to increase his trade value is void in this case.

If this is all true (about him leaving) then you can pretty much guarantee we will banish him to the SANFL as soon as we can (once we have Talia back). Nicks wants people fully committed. If he's not committed, then he will be on the outer big time.

Also for all of those people thinking we will get very little value for him, I think you are underestimating our negotiating ability. Just wait until we play our bluff. We are really good at it.

 

[Vader]

Whilst I agree with your premise in general, Im not sure Grigg ever kept Knight out of a midfield position. He played 20 games, most of which as a sub or half forward.

I also doubt Knight ever utterly dominates the SANFL like Grigg has at stages. Grigg lacked athleticism and probably application, not talent.

Knight just wasn’t good enough in the end. He was at best a role player in a challenging side. He had no place hanging around a rebuild, our focus needs to be on finding the our next A-Graders, not on banking role players.

I didn't say that Grigg kept him out of the AFL midfield. I said that Grigg kept him out of the SANFL midfield, which is the training/proving ground for players with AFL midfield ambitions.

For a while there our first choice SANFL midfield consisted of Grigg, CEY & Thompson. As with our infamous Sloane/Brouch/Mrouch midfield at AFL level, nobody else got much of a look-in at SANFL level. Without the opportunity to develop his midfield play in the SANFL, he had no chance whatsoever of getting a shot at the AFL midfield. The same could be said for the likes of Gooch & Dots.

In all cases, there's an argument that the players just weren't good enough - full stop.

 

[Golumless]

Again, it's not just drafting it's development.

There's a reason we changed our coaching staff and head of development

Yup, and really, there is no conceivable way in hell we were going to be able to develop anyone in the last few years with how many people we lost in the off-field.

At least we're trending upwards now, but Burton and Roo really did a number to it.

 

[Golumless]

Whilst I agree with your premise in general, Im not sure Grigg ever kept Knight out of a midfield position. He played 20 games, most of which as a sub or half forward.

I also doubt Knight ever utterly dominates the SANFL like Grigg has at stages. Grigg lacked athleticism and probably application, not talent.

Knight just wasn’t good enough in the end. He was at best a role player in a challenging side. He had no place hanging around a rebuild, our focus needs to be on finding the our next A-Graders, not on banking role players.

Hard to say with Knight, his 2017 was on the cusp of being good enough to have a long career at a good side. Could never stay healthy enough though, which ended up opening the door to Murphy who could offer similar production and was 5ish years younger. Maybe if Knights stays healthy for longer, he ends up finding another niche and locking that position down?

Mind you, Murphy career has so far really been Knights without injuries, in that, he's here until we get a couple of really talented small forwards. Or until a 19 year old comes on the scene who does the same thing but is 5 years younger.

 

[Mego Red]

That's his exposed form at Adelaide, yes. Shown SFA so far.

He's still young though. Not writing him off yet.

So you're not writing him off before he plays an actual game? That's very generous.

 

[Mutineer]

What sort of rumours? Family stuff I’d assume

Father had a massive heart attack and had to be resuscitated was what I heard??

 

[Mego Red]

What is worse, turning Lever into Gibbs, or turning Davis and another top 10 pick into Brad Crouch who we let leave for pick 23?

Brad Crouch and Luke Brown.

Plus - we got a lot more for Lever ultimately than just Gibbs.

 

[Mutineer]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...but it hurts seeing Serong taken two picks later. Exactly what our midfield is screaming for.

Another sub 180cm midfielder....You must be new to this board?

 

[BACCS]

Using a top 10 pick on a key position defender is generally a waste of resources. I was dead set against drafting McAsey unless we thought he was a forward. So in my mind we already burned that pick the moment we decided he was a defender.

Drafting a KPD in the back half of the first round is less of a waste, but still not ideal.

If you look at premiership teams over the last decade, how many had a key position defender they drafted in the first 10 picks? Most of them are rookies or later picks

Wasn’t Rance a first round selection?

 

[Scorpus]

Wasn’t Rance a first round selection?

End of first round priority pick

 

[Thetrader15]

Using a top 10 pick on a key position defender is generally a waste of resources. I was dead set against drafting McAsey unless we thought he was a forward. So in my mind we already burned that pick the moment we decided he was a defender.

Drafting a KPD in the back half of the first round is less of a waste, but still not ideal.

If you look at premiership teams over the last decade, how many had a key position defender they drafted in the first 10 picks? Most of them are rookies or later picks

Talia, Davis, Moore, Hurley, Haynes, Lever, Weitering and Naughton all top 12 or so picks and pretty decent players.

Not to mention Jack Lukosius who is being played as a key defender