Preview 2022 Rd 5 Carlton vs Port Adelaide Sunday 17th 1.40PM @ MCG - Team changes post #803

[thylacine60]

Talk of yet undisclosed H & S protocols on the Port board.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Gray has 10 goals in his last 5 games against us (if I've read the stats right). Plow seems to have done a pretty good job on him

And 15 if you go back to 6 games.

Gray has dined out on Carlton for years. One of those games he only kicked 1 goal but had 27 disposals off a half forward flank.

Plow fans... known for their firm grip on reality you think?

 

[carlton_99]

And 15 if you go back to 6 games.

Gray has dined out on Carlton for years. One of those games he only kicked 1 goal but had 27 disposals off a half forward flank.

Plow fans... known for their firm grip on reality you think?

I've also provided stats for Papley and Cameron - the two best small forwards in the game. No one is claiming he is an automatic starter in the 22 - but some of the comments I see on this board about him are absurd

 

[gunslingr]

And 15 if you go back to 6 games.

Gray has dined out on Carlton for years. One of those games he only kicked 1 goal but had 27 disposals off a half forward flank.

Plow fans... known for their firm grip on reality you think?

Have you taken a look at those 5 goals in that 6th game (I assume it's round 5, 2017)?

#1 & #2: Definitely looked like Doc was manning him for both goals (marked on lead comfortably in front of Doc for #1, Doc lost him in a stoppage for #2)

#3: with eyes on the ball, Plow seemed to be in the right position relative to Gray for the ball drop from a centred kick but a different PA player got enough of a fist on it to get it to Gray who better anticipated where it would end up (pays to have awareness of who else is around sometimes!). Don't reckon it was bad defending from Plow.

#4: Plow left Gray (front and centre) to cover a lot of ground to ultimately spoil a Dixon mark in the pocket. Despite the spoil, Plow didn't/couldn't kill the ball and after it was batted out of that contest towards goal by PA player, Gray ended up on the goal line solo to tap it through

#5: Yeah, Plow way too slow off the mark. Gray led from square to pocket and marked/goaled

 

[Jimmyonesix]

U name the one single opponent that Jones could not beat regularly and that's about the only one that had that record on him.... Look at Carlton's record in the year[2020 ] he was knocked out against North Melbourne before and after.... We could not win a game without him because he was that important to our structure... He had the intercept game he also was tremendously fast in closing down an opponent, And he set the tone with courage and his desperation ... The Carlton match committee and recruiting team would have been back in an instant.... And suddenly our team would look absolutely complete.

Please Jones is a good footballer in his limited domain-- he would often get lost in no man's land and his disposal was ordinary - he would often give up direct goals every week-- good full backs give up hardly any all year via direct error .. I used jones as an example trying to say plow isn't as bad as what Has been said on this board . But I will stand by the fact that Jones is a very average full back .

 

[FRUMPY]

I can't see out of our current backs who else can do this sort of thing.
at 16 mins Richo comment '' ...not just intercept marks in the league he takes but the best contested intercept marks in the competition....''

amazing how highlights dont show his brainfades which were many. He would either be in the best 5 or worst 5 most weeks i reckon. We're a poorer side without him but geez he could have off days where he was terrible and that cost us dearly.

 

[FRUMPY]

Pretty simple, McDonald did a solid job against Richmond's top KPF, Young was smacked by their now jettisoned depth.
You don't put a line through Young of course but he's a long way off being considered a reliable option.

probably why he was in the reserves until injuries occurred

im not sure Omac can be defined as a reliable option after 1.5 games either.....

 

[Justnetime]

probably why he was in the reserves until injuries occurred

im not sure Omac can be defined as a reliable option after 1.5 games either.....

I think Austin has a job to do. Omac is looking injury prone and Young second game looked worse than bad. The latter only a two game sample but I’m factoring the doggies not wanting him despite an awful to average defensive list of talls.

 

[FRUMPY]

I think Austin has a job to do. Omac is looking injury prone and Young second game looked worse than bad. The latter only a two game sample but I’m factoring the doggies not wanting him despite an awful to average defensive list of talls.

Definetly short a tall down back - especially with Jones gone.

I think people are being harsh on young. Not a great game at all but FMD our mids got torched and ball was moving in pretty freely. Ive seen Jones have games like Young did.

 

[Justnetime]

Please Jones is a good footballer in his limited domain-- he would often get lost in no man's land and his disposal was ordinary - he would often give up direct goals every week-- good full backs give up hardly any all year via direct error .. I used jones as an example trying to say plow isn't as bad as what Has been said on this board . But I will stand by the fact that Jones is a very average full back .

Plow is one that does get hammered.

My view on Plow isn’t going to help but It isn’t based on ranting. Rather than matchups on players and goals scored which is hard to line up, I look at it in other ways.

Just watching him vs Stephenson showed he is weak vs a smart or fast lead up forward. Over the last 12 months I’ve seen him pretty weak when it’s a ball on the deck heading towards opponents goal. He has started in front position but each time loses that interaction. You can see he is nervous about holding his feet under pressure. Sometime last year he had the free role but made zero impression So has no intercept defender value. He is an in between height making the clear role harder. He offers no aggression and physically struggles to hold out players in one on one contests. He can’t play tall lockdown imo. Yes, we can argue he has had mixed success and failure for small forwards.

This bit does sound like potshotting but I think he has been very lucky to land at Carlton and very lucky Marchbank got hit with a cursed footballing life. Lucky Jones left us short. Again lucky McGovern went down.

When posters say he played well or bad versus so and so….well that is very hard to line up versus the overall match sway. Was it really midfield pressure or lack of midfield pressure that explained his performance. It’s why I don’t look at that so much. I look at the smaller traits to make up my mind. In my mind he should be a squad player and not first choice.

Mostly, when I watch Walsh, Docherty, Silvagni, Saad, Weitering etc., then over years as they approach the ball I feel good based on their history of winning ‘physical interactions’. With Plow, I stress for him based on history of him losing more interactions than he wins.

I rate the physical interactions highly for a defender. Boyd not off to the best start at Carlton under the same microscope. Did some nice things last week compared to previous weeks but the telling bit is ‘physical interactions’ where he has been terrible.

 

[myblueroan]

“Don’t want to knee jerk after one loss, but some of our vulnerabilities were “spectacularly” put on show on Sunday. I had a first hand viewing of the debacle as well as the reserves game.

There were some sub standard efforts from a range of players. We did not have the mindset to take on a side bringing maximum intensity while we has a couple of key absentees.

Durdin’s pressure is a fire starter, his energy is infectious. Do not also underestimate his game awareness. He is the most game savvy member of our forward line and already does more directing than most realise. We have some highly talented forwards, but intelligence is not in oversupply outside of Durds, JSOS and Owies. Harry, Charlie, TDK, Martin and Fisher get by on ability and instinct alone, but all have the fault of believing their own hype a little too much at times. Our structures suffer accordingly too often.

Durdin in providing he has recovered from Covid. Who goes out? Late replacement Fogarty is the first. My first thought was that Motlop needed a bigger body of work to assume a spot which is clearly his very soon. Then I thought Owies, Fisher and

‘Paper’ doesn’t win games.

I'd take Paper over the Cracks though.

 

[Accidental genius]

Plow is one that does get hammered.

My view on Plow isn’t going to help but It isn’t based on ranting. Rather than matchups on players and goals scored which is hard to line up, I look at it in other ways.

Just watching him vs Stephenson showed he is weak vs a smart or fast lead up forward. Over the last 12 months I’ve seen him pretty weak when it’s a ball on the deck heading towards opponents goal. He has started in front position but each time loses that interaction. You can see he is nervous about holding his feet under pressure. Sometime last year he had the free role but made zero impression So has no intercept defender value. He is an in between height making the clear role harder. He offers no aggression and physically struggles to hold out players in one on one contests. He can’t play tall lockdown imo. Yes, we can argue he has had mixed success and failure for small forwards.

This bit does sound like potshotting but I think he has been very lucky to land at Carlton and very lucky Marchbank got hit with a cursed footballing life. Lucky Jones left us short. Again lucky McGovern went down.

When posters say he played well or bad versus so and so….well that is very hard to line up versus the overall match sway. Was it really midfield pressure or lack of midfield pressure that explained his performance. It’s why I don’t look at that so much. I look at the smaller traits to make up my mind. In my mind he should be a squad player and not first choice.

Mostly, when I watch Walsh, Docherty, Silvagni, Saad, Weitering etc., then over years as they approach the ball I feel good based on their history of winning ‘physical interactions’. With Plow, I stress for him based on history of him losing more interactions than he wins.

I rate the physical interactions highly for a defender. Boyd not off to the best start at Carlton under the same microscope. Did some nice things last week compared to previous weeks but the telling bit is ‘physical interactions’ where he has been terrible.

Really good correct and to the point review of plow.

We’ve needed him in the 1st in the past but I think from here on in he is good to have as depth.

 

[Coops93]

I can't see out of our current backs who else can do this sort of thing.
at 16 mins Richo comment '' ...not just intercept marks in the league he takes but the best contested intercept marks in the competition....''

None of that really goes against what he said though. He said he was a great mark and a great intercept.

What those highlights don't show is when he plays 10m behind his direct opponent of bites off a bullet pass into the corridor to the opponent.

His excellent athleticism is 2nd to none as a defender but he over-relied on it at times, thinking he could play further off his man as his closing speed would sort it all out, but sometimes it didn't and he'd look like a goof.

That said I'd still love him back right now and would immediately help the back 6.

 

[Coops93]

Mostly, when I watch Walsh, Docherty, Silvagni, Saad, Weitering etc., then over years as they approach the ball I feel good based on their history of winning ‘physical interactions’. With Plow, I stress for him based on history of him losing more interactions than he wins.

Agree with this especially. Plow must have some of the worst balance in the team, he falls over at hardly any sign of physical contact at times.

Silvagni especially has grown into his man body and has strength the stand up in contests and tackles. Still looks slim but doesn't play it. A far cry from the super skinny boy he was.

 

[Navy_Blueblood]

I think Austin has a job to do. Omac is looking injury prone and Young second game looked worse than bad. The latter only a two game sample but I’m factoring the doggies not wanting him despite an awful to average defensive list of talls.

The Doggies offered him a 2 year deal.

Putting that aside, I do think he's an intercepting defender stuck in a KPD's body. Hopefully that changes given our KPD list deficiency

 

[LanceRomance]

If Plowman is in the backline Gray will be licking his lips.

How old is gray now? He'll have to put his teeth back in first

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Definetly short a tall down back - especially with Jones gone.

I think people are being harsh on young. Not a great game at all but FMD our mids got torched and ball was moving in pretty freely. Ive seen Jones have games like Young did.

exactly, no defence looks good when the mids go MIA en masse.

 

[Rustica]

If Plowman is in the backline Gray will be licking his lips.

Can he even move at 34 anymore?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Reckon you could certainly make a case for pushing Plow into the role that Setters is currently playing.

 

[Chookaradley]

Reckon you could certainly make a case for pushing Plow into the role that Setters is currently playing.

I think there's a good case to freshen him up and either play him forward or on a wing. Voss toyed with it a bit during pre season game. Hes playeda lot of football in the one position

 

[thylacine60]

Hasn't been a player as devisive as Plow since Bret Thornton

Bret Thornton

Age

40

Ht

192cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.9

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Reckon you could certainly make a case for pushing Plow into the role that Setters is currently playing.

Docherty up to a wing
Plow to their small/mid-size forward
Stocker into Docherty's position
Setters out?

Or:
Docherty up to a wing
Stocker into Docherty's position
Parks into Plowman's position
Setters and Plowman out? (Plowman to become the emergency)

Both scenarios have Cripps out for Dow and Fogarty out for Pittonet too.

Could also make a case that Cotters is worth a crack in Setters position, even Newnes probably deserves a recall. If Newnes is your defensive winger then he's a pretty good option, provided he can move the ball at the pace required of the new game plan.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Hasn't been a player as devisive as Plow since Bret Thornton?

Paul Bower

My friend once played Bret Thornton in a local footy game, he said something along the lines of "crazy how you got delisted by one of the worst sides in the competition and went on to struggle to get a game in the worst team in the competition, your careers a joke" Thornton laughed, and quickly said something like "If I'm terrible and I played 189 games of AFL, then what does that make you?" Bret went on to break my mates ribs in a marking contest that game

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Paul Bower

My friend once played Bret Thornton in a local footy game, he said something along the lines of "crazy how you got delisted by one of the worst sides in the competition and went on to struggle to get a game in the worst team in the competition, your careers a joke" Thornton laughed, and quickly said something like "If I'm terrible and I played 189 games of AFL, then what does that make you?" Bret went on to break my mates ribs in a marking contest that game

Your mate sounds like a bell-end and got what he deserved !!

 

[Red Bull]

Jones chose to retire, forget him.
If people want to pine for a retired defender, try this guy …