Preview 2022 Round 3 Carlton vs Hawthorn Sunday April 3rd 1.10PM @ MCG - Team Post #1413

[Aphrodite]

Injury news: McDonald to miss, Stocker returns in VFL

An update from an injury standpoint leading into Round 3.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[katmanblue]

Whoever plays out of OMac/Young, will get the resting ruckman, Weits on Lewis

Gunston is the tricky one. Obvious choice is Gov, but seems we want him to be the interceptor/play on a smaller forward, so Newman might get the gig

He'd kick 5 on Newman. Who is generally ok with ball in hand but his opponents lose him fairly often when he has to defend.

 

[cookie monster]

He'd kick 5 on Newman. Who is generally ok with ball in hand but his opponents lose him fairly often when he has to defend.

Newman is a shocking defender
I'd rather Plowman take that role if I had to choose

 

[Arr0w]

He'd kick 5 on Newman. Who is generally ok with ball in hand but his opponents lose him fairly often when he has to defend.

The critical thinking needs to shift, with what the setups look like now this year. Sure, there are still one on one matchups/contests, but we are now playing a more modern defensive setup, where the most important components are the timing of handing off to teammates and how hard the on ballers are working to plug the leading spaces

Newman's weaknesses are his speed and agility, but his strengths are how he reads the phase of play and organising the structure behind the ball.

The way the game is played, no defender will have a clean sheet if he is asked to play one on one for the whole day

 

[myblueroan]

I've given this some thought.
Hawks have had many many years at top. Seasons of winning. Seasons of smashing us.
What a pack of greedy hogs to think they could get back up again already.
No years languishing at bottom?
Where are the hard yards?
The pain and suffering?
How very DARE they.
No.
It just IS NOT going to happen
Not on our watch.
Listen up Blueboys.
You have ONE job.
Don't just beat them.
Don't just thrash them.
I want total destroyisation.
Total destruction and decimation.
I'm talking humiliation with no excuses.

Or, you know, a point or 2.
But just WIN. Please.

 

[JustaBattler]

Not too concerned at the moment about our flankers and wingmen, not kicking more goals

Using Demons as an example, first 2 games and removing KPFs/Talls and mids

Fritsch 3, Pickett 3, Langdon 1, Bowey 1

Jsos 3, Durdin 2, Fisher 2, Martin 1, LOB 1, Owies 1, Doc 1

That's +3 and more options, so far

Setting the team up to win a flag as opposed to being 'just' competitive is a different thing in my mind . Which is why I asked myself the question "what is missing" in terms of matching it everywhere....and so I concluded :

" I reckon solving for the second key defender slot and fixing up the lack of scoring capability of the HFF - takes the Club to the next level of dangerous "

Right now we have been scoring in three ways

1. Scrappy crumbing due to forward pressure around goals
2. Mark and kicks to forwards
3. Midfielders kicking them on the run - pretty much Cripps

I dont think Fisher or Fogarty are scary to any opposition as blokes that are going to hoof one from 45 degrees around 40-50 meters in open play and I think the Club needs that layer of danger to be added to make it a mopre complete forward unit.

 

[Arr0w]

Setting the team up to win a flag as opposed to being 'just' competitive is a different thing in my mind . Which is why I asked myself the question "what is missing" in terms of matching it everywhere....and so I concluded :

" I reckon solving for the second key defender slot and fixing up the lack of scoring capability of the HFF - takes the Club to the next level of dangerous "

Right now we have been scoring in three ways

1. Scrappy crumbing due to forward pressure around goals
2. Mark and kicks to forwards
3. Midfielders kicking them on the run - pretty much Cripps

I dont think Fisher or Fogarty are scary to any opposition as blokes that are going to hoof one from 45 degrees around 40-50 meters in open play and I think the Club needs that layer of danger to be added to make it a mopre complete forward unit.

I agree with you on Fog, who I think is an honest blue collar type, with minimal impact factor. I sense that many still don't trust Fisher, which I understand to some degree, but he is effectively playing as a 5th mid in the last 2 weeks. If all of Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh play this week, I believe Fisher will become more dangerous and the likes of Cerra will start resting at HF

I agree, it would be great to have flankers that can not only hurt you in the air, provide pressure, but can slot them from 50, it's why the likes of Martin become critical/cream

 

[footyfan1978]

So if we have an injury down back setters comes in to replace them? Why wouldn’t you want Plow as sub? Defence is where we are most vulnerable isn’t it? Note Williamson was sub in r1.

Sub is just for a player to come into the 22 for an injury.
We do not know which part of the ground an injury can happen.
To be clear I have no concern if the sub is either of them. I just expect it more likely to be Setters.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Happy that we'll have to play Young. Arguably a better match-up for Lewis or resting ruckman than OMac.

 

[footyfan1978]

Happy that we'll have to play Young. Arguably a better match-up for Lewis or resting ruckman than OMac.

He is.
I think he'll relish the chance and play better than he did in the reserves game on the weekend.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Newman is a shocking defender
I'd rather Plowman take that role if I had to choose

Yeah I though Plow would be the obvious choice.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[Bic]

Eight motherf*ers quoting me now to say almost exactly the same ***** thing.

nO PiTToNeT wiLL nOt bE DrOpPeD, iT's UnpOssIbLE


We'll definitely flog them if we're allowed to play 23 players plus a sub

Anyway, let's reward the more refined arguments instead:


He's not pressuring around the stoppages, not accounting for his opponent, not doing anything up forward, and and he's not owning the air against opponents in general play.

I don't care if he's doing OK against a defensive ruck (Nankervis) and a tall midfielder (English) at a small portion of ruck contests, when we're not winning the ball out of there well enough. It's a meaningless statistic in that context.

That's not good enough for someone that is demanding 70+ % of ruck time, all while TDK tries to play key forward while built up like a ruckman. Just let TDK roam, he's far more suited to a modern ruck role than what Pittonet is producing.

Hopefully after 2 weeks of reduced minutes, he's good to go.


I agree with most of this bar the TDK/Pittonet take, I just see it as them being too safe just to get a few extra nice tap outs a game. I legitimately think what we lose is worth it for what we gain.

Fisher is not playing like a high half-forward right now, more like a winger that can't break free often, and can't pressure at the stoppage or in open play. Can't pick him just for a couple of good passes a game. He'd be the first player I'd drop in order to bring in Dow or Martin.

Fogarty on the other hand had some sustained periods of pressure, as well as being able to disrupt aerial contests. Links up better than Fisher most of the time because he can accelerate away, and doesn't put it all on himself to unlock the play, more readily looking to draw a player and release a team mate via handball.

2 goal assists, and didn't cook himself much.


The difference is that Fisher has had 2 years worth of football to get it right, and O'Brien has been yoyo-ing since Teague's caretaker games.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Pittonet is an unfashionable type of ruck. No leap, no athletics, just grit and hustle

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

Will be interesting the role that Stocker will play in the VFL, seems at this stage it will still be at HB. I know we now have much better options in the middle, but the likes of Cerra, Walsh, even Hewett can play on a wing, so would like him to be used in the middle at VFL level

Also surprised we are playing Kemp as a forward, when there is an opportunity for him to play as a KPD (reportedly grown to 195cm) or at the least a 3rd tall who could eventually take over from Newman. Perhaps it's educational, learning what forwards do to become dangerous and gain some insight on what needs to be done as a defender to stop them

 

[Stamos]

Audio

Michael Voss, Fresh out of Covid isolation gives us the lowdown on the Blues’ regeneration.

Fresh out of Covid isolation, the Carlton coach gives us the lowdown on the Blues’ regeneration.

player.whooshkaa.com

This is a great listen. Highly recommend.

I am so impressed with Voss.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

View attachment 1357684

I tipped this exact outcome prior to last week's game and got ridiculed.

This week up against Ned Reeves I expect Pitto will have a tougher time of it - especially at centre bounces where Reeves extra 9cm height advantage will hurt. DeKoning may be required to attend more centre bounces. At ball ups and throw ins Pitto will be stronger so should be able to impact more.

Their back up ruck McEvoy won't worry Pitto at all.

Winning the ruck will go a long way to winning (and hopefully dominating) the game.

Martin's pace, tackling, ability to dispose of the ball under tackle, ability to kick goals, etc. is a long long way in front of Fog at the moment. Watch a replay of the Richmond game to see how Martin influences our forward pressure (a lot doesn't show up in the stats). It's not like Fog played a bad game - it's just super-competitive for spots.

Also, in general we are a little short on pace. Last week we had a lot of one pacers with Setters, Fog, our core mids, Owies, etc. all playing well but not quick.

We need Martin in.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Will be interesting the role that Stocker will play in the VFL, seems at this stage it will still be at HB. I know we now have much better options in the middle, but the likes of Cerra, Walsh, even Hewett can play on a wing, so would like him to be used in the middle at VFL level

Also surprised we are playing Kemp as a forward, when there is an opportunity for him to play as a KPD (reportedly grown to 195cm) or at the least a 3rd tall who could eventually take over from Newman. Perhaps it's educational, learning what forwards do to become dangerous and gain some insight on what needs to be done as a defender to stop them

Watching the VFL on the weekend it feels we are trying to play every player in the position they are competing for at AFL level. On that basis I feel Stocker mainly plays defense (might still do small midfield stints) as that is the position he is competing for.

On Kemp I think the club have identified that he is first in if a tall forward goes down but further down the pecking order in defence. Our depth of 3rd tall defenders being better then up forward is probably also influencing this. Was pretty unimpressive last week so will be interesting to see if the club reassess at some point. He did train all summer as a defender by reports.

 

[Aphrodite]

Eight motherf*ers quoting me now to say almost exactly the same ***** thing.

nO PiTToNeT wiLL nOt bE DrOpPeD, iT's UnpOssIbLE


We'll definitely flog them if we're allowed to play 23 players plus a sub

Anyway, let's reward the more refined arguments instead:


He's not pressuring around the stoppages, not accounting for his opponent, not doing anything up forward, and and he's not owning the air against opponents in general play.

I don't care if he's doing OK against a defensive ruck (Nankervis) and a tall midfielder (English) at a small portion of ruck contests, when we're not winning the ball out of there well enough. It's a meaningless statistic in that context.

That's not good enough for someone that is demanding 70+ % of ruck time, all while TDK tries to play key forward while built up like a ruckman. Just let TDK roam, he's far more suited to a modern ruck role than what Pittonet is producing.

Hopefully after 2 weeks of reduced minutes, he's good to go.


I agree with most of this bar the TDK/Pittonet take, I just see it as them being too safe just to get a few extra nice tap outs a game. I legitimately think what we lose is worth it for what we gain.

Fisher is not playing like a high half-forward right now, more like a winger that can't break free often, and can't pressure at the stoppage or in open play. Can't pick him just for a couple of good passes a game. He'd be the first player I'd drop in order to bring in Dow or Martin.

Fogarty on the other hand had some sustained periods of pressure, as well as being able to disrupt aerial contests. Links up better than Fisher most of the time because he can accelerate away, and doesn't put it all on himself to unlock the play, more readily looking to draw a player and release a team mate via handball.

2 goal assists, and didn't cook himself much.


The difference is that Fisher has had 2 years worth of football to get it right, and O'Brien has been yoyo-ing since Teague's caretaker games.

Chillax Jimmae


Oh and make that NINE .....

Pittonet will not be dropped!

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Will be interesting the role that Stocker will play in the VFL, seems at this stage it will still be at HB. I know we now have much better options in the middle, but the likes of Cerra, Walsh, even Hewett can play on a wing, so would like him to be used in the middle at VFL level

Also surprised we are playing Kemp as a forward, when there is an opportunity for him to play as a KPD (reportedly grown to 195cm) or at the least a 3rd tall who could eventually take over from Newman. Perhaps it's educational, learning what forwards do to become dangerous and gain some insight on what needs to be done as a defender to stop them

You would think if young goes up -- Jesse will go to full back and kemp will play CHB in the VFL ? Unless they feel he isn't strong enough over the ball against the bigger bodies yet ..

 

[footyfan1978]

Also surprised we are playing Kemp as a forward, when there is an opportunity for him to play as a KPD (reportedly grown to 195cm) or at the least a 3rd tall who could eventually take over from Newman. Perhaps it's educational, learning what forwards do to become dangerous and gain some insight on what needs to be done as a defender to stop them

I do not think they have settled on where Kemp will be developed.
He played mainly forward but he also was at more than just one or two centre bounces. So he was also used in middle a bit.
It all tells me, he still very early in his phase of just playing football again and they are in no rush to settle on him pigeon holed for a specific role.
But in terms of our list hole of key defence, if he really is 195 cm, later in season, he might end up down back. I suspect for next few months he will play a lot of different roles in VFL team, just to learn what he capable of and then settle on where to develop him specifically.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Setting the team up to win a flag as opposed to being 'just' competitive is a different thing in my mind . Which is why I asked myself the question "what is missing" in terms of matching it everywhere....and so I concluded :

" I reckon solving for the second key defender slot and fixing up the lack of scoring capability of the HFF - takes the Club to the next level of dangerous "

Right now we have been scoring in three ways

1. Scrappy crumbing due to forward pressure around goals
2. Mark and kicks to forwards
3. Midfielders kicking them on the run - pretty much Cripps

I dont think Fisher or Fogarty are scary to any opposition as blokes that are going to hoof one from 45 degrees around 40-50 meters in open play and I think the Club needs that layer of danger to be added to make it a mopre complete forward unit.

If Mackay and TDK are playing FF and CHF with Charlie Martin and silvagni I think we have enough marking and scoring power around the flanks .. I would expect TDK to improve a lot over the next 20 games ..

 

[footyfan1978]

This is a great listen. Highly recommend.

I am so impressed with Voss.

ta, will check it out now.

 

[GordonBlue]

I have said a few times how I am not worried about the Hawks this week and this has not changed... only because I believe we will counter their counter.

Voss would be taking Hawthorn extremely seriously! Hawks have the ability to take it up to the good teams and tend to struggle against the poorer teams.

Their game plan is full reliant on absobing pressure/attacks and rebounding.

They have been the best in the league since late last year and early this year in:

• Intercept possessions
• Scoring from Defence

We will definitely win the midfield battle. Hawthorn almost relies on it.

Why I think we will win is because we have a very advanced and skilled Coaching group who see this. The Port game last week was just perfect for us. We got to see it first hand. We can now prepare for this exact game.

Why we will win is also because of our ability to change our game to suit the situation, whereas I believe Hawks only rely on this game plan. If we're able to counter their style, I don't think they'll have an answer.

I say the above with upmost respect to Hawthorn. If their system works, don't think many can overcome it.

Just watch the Melbourne v Hawthorn game from last year. It doesn't matter how good the opposition is, they can get you!

 

[Jimmyonesix]

I have said a few times how I am not worried about the Hawks this week and this has not changed... only because I believe we will counter their counter.

Voss would be taking Hawthorn extremely seriously! Hawks have the ability to take it up to the good teams and tend to struggle against the poorer teams.

Their game plan is full reliant on absobing pressure/attacks and rebounding.

They have been the best in the league since late last year and early this year in:

• Intercept possessions
• Scoring from Defence

We will definitely win the midfield battle. Hawthorn almost relies on it.

Why I think we will win is because we have a very advanced and skilled Coaching group who see this. The Port game last week was just perfect for us. We got to see it first hand. We can now prepare for this exact game.

Why we will win is also because of our ability to change our game to suit the situation, whereas I believe Hawks only rely on this game plan. If we're able to counter their style, I don't think they'll have an answer.

I say the above with upmost respect to Hawthorn. If their system works, don't think many can overcome it.

Just watch the Melbourne v Hawthorn game from last year. It doesn't matter how good the opposition is, they can get you!

They defend the 30 metre hole in front of goal very well( and seem to force opposition to kick there ) and spread as a unit well -- but the other night they took a lot of marks inside 50 which really shouldn't happen - then often came out and up the ground without even needing to switch as there was no contest inside the fwd 50.. if you continually let side play fast and uncontested from the back half you will never defend it -- they were scoring from kick ins without a hand laid on them -- we were like that last year we had no defensive pressure and many teams went coast to coast from kick in or turn over deep inside 50.. the turnover at the point of square Forward flank you often can't defend but deep entries shouldn't walk out ..