List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[saintsrfreak]

Figured since this will be a very hot topic for the next year it was worthy of its own thread

The romance, the marketing potential, the cost, the need. Many factors to consider here.

My prediction is that even the most rigid of those in the 'no' camp will be feeling some temptation when Ben is kicking bags every week

 

[Yawkey way]

Can't imagine Bytel taking Hills spot on a back flank or wing?

Hanners came in when we needed a lift and showed that despite his body he was clearly still up to the level, getting numbers at AFL level that Bytel has only been able to produce at VFL level and never got close to at the top grade.

It's not as though Ratten doesn't play the kids. In 2020 he backed in the youngest backline in the comp. This year he backed all our draftees.

You need to earn your spot to some degree.

Bytel was very fortunate to be backed as much as he was last year without delivering a lot.

But there comes a time when you need to start earning your spot and at 22 now he just didn't do it this year.

I remember him playing across halfback in 1 of the championship games but clearly he’s not doing something that’s been asked of him at vfl level. He had a great last game but as you say we’ve promoted youth and he’s missed the boat the same as Connelly. Now I’d keep them both because I still think they can make it but he either accepts 1 year or leaves at this stage. You’d have to think that our first pick is going to be used on a mid so he’s starting a fair way back.

I‘m also of the opinion he’ll be worse of if anything at Essendon and will probably just play vfl there but it’s his call.

 

[BrutThough]

Wait since when are we losing Clark? What have I missed?

We aren't.

 

[2ballz]

it really was insane

a farewell game to Kent

He was picked as sub so he could reach the 100 game milestone

 

[Yawkey way]

Hopefully pies go out in straight sets. I hope Geelong smash them... and I never hope Geelong win.

Nah screw that go pies.

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon for a first year player still adjusting to the time and pressure of AFL you’ve got to give a little leniency on ball use. Especially for inside midfield types. I agree he’s got a bit more toe and agility than Steele. But Steele is also a ******* unit. I was rewatching the Sydney game and some of the clean handballs Steele managed to get out with 2 - 3 players on him or around him was ridiculous. Cripps, Oliver and Dangerfield would be the only guys better in tight in the comp I reckon.

I hope Windy doesn’t lose that speed and agility as he develops but he’s also going to have to bulk up a bit in reality. If Windy becomes more hard running, goalkicking tall kid I’ve got no complaints, will complement Steele well who’s more inside mid and high half forward, mark and goal mid then those line breaking types.

I don't think any of that contradicts what I've said. Steele is a great player but he's quite a staid and solid operator. He's no flash harry with a bag of party tricks. To me Windy looks much more disco and flashy.

 

[Therealsaint]

Nah screw that go pies.

Nah ,screw the filth

 

[Joffaboy]

Thanks Mow, I appreciate that mate.

I'm still around lurking. Truth is I'm done with football as a spectator and club supporter.

The posters on this site are amazing and the community here is fantastic, the issue I have is the football is no longer entertaining and following the Saints weekly was bad for my mental health.
Whenever there has been a win or loss and my emotions are going beserk there's always a Verdun, Mowman, Gringo, Yawkey, Joff, Diehard, George....(you get the idea) to make sharp, analytical commentary on why it was never quite as bad as I thought, or as good - you guys and many others make this a fantastic place to be a part of.

My thanks to every single poster on this board.

On the rare occasions we were scheduled to play on a Friday night, after the inevitable loss I found myself just unbearable to be around for my family - I was too invested in the outcome of the club. For a team that averages 10-12th place on the ladder for the last 10 years that's untenable to maintain that emotional investment.
Once I stepped back, took the emotion out of it and looked at the historical facts of the Club the decision to stop watching us play every week was easy.
Some will argue that footy is a passionate sport full of emotion and yes I completely agree - but for me I couldn't control that negative emotion and with our win/loss record that was happening far too often.

I'm still a paid up member and when the kids ask to watch the games I still sit with them and celebrate goals but now it's with a book or electronic device with the odd glance up to look at how some of our kids are going.
I still love the Saints and the heroes we've produced but as a fan that passion I had pre Covid is lacking.

Keep fighting the good fight guys and gals, I'll drop in every now and then and get a good chuckle or nod along sagely at some advice or opinion one of you all post.

Just for good measure: Our development is atrocious.

Thanks for the rant and apologies in advance for posting in the wrong thread George

Pardon Me.

Great to hear from you PM. Good idea to step back.
Came to AFL late as I was Sydney born and bred, moved here in 1988, didn't fully understand football for about 3 years ( many would say I still don't), of full immersion into it. Fell in love with just not the game but the fanaticism of the supporters and media.
This translated into Saints fanaticism for me.
That has wained. Started with 09 and 10 heartbreaks and the 12 years of false dawns.
Now being an MCC member I go to neutral games and still love the game but the emotional torment is not there.

The unrequited love for the STKFC has taken it's toll. The false dawns, the culture of failure, the lacklustre efforts of the players, has led me down a similar path to you.
Love this place, for football talk, good and bad, but need to pull back from the Saints a bit.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Rumours on Saints FB page that we are keen in Ratogalea

Ratunoidea

 

[The Punter]

Great to hear from you PM. Good idea to step back.
Came to AFL late as I was Sydney born and bred, moved here in 1988, didn't fully understand football for about 3 years ( many would say I still don't), of full immersion into it. Fell in love with just not the game but the fanaticism of the supporters and media.
This translated into Saints fanaticism for me.
That has wained. Started with 09 and 10 heartbreaks and the 12 years of false dawns.
Now being an MCC member I go to neutral games and still love the game but the emotional torment is not there.

The unrequited love for the STKFC has taken it's toll. The false dawns, the culture of failure, the lacklustre efforts of the players, has led me down a similar path to you.
Love this place, for football talk, good and bad, but need to pull back from the Saints a bit.

Just on this tangent, I don't think you can downplay what 2009/2010 did to the fan base.

I was born in 1980. For the first decade of my life we were poor and I didn't follow it too much.

Then we came good for a few years and fell back down. (91-92)

But we came good almost straight away. Then fell back again (97-98).

But we came good almost straight away. Then fell back again (04-06).

But we came good almost straight away. Then fell back again (08-11).

After that... we never came back. Most Saints supporters who were at the 2010 GF or were watching closely probably felt the same way when Goddard took the mark - it's finally happening. Then it got ripped from us over the course of the next seven days.

Since then we've never won 13 games in a season (2020 was a 13-9 pace in 22 game parlance but we played 17) and never played in a prelim (between 2000 and 2009 every club played in at least one prelim).

So a supporter base raised on two truths (we've won one flag, and the cycle is swift) now can't hang it's hat on the one truth that contained hope - the speed of the cycle. Because it's been a flat line for a decade.

I can understand the sentiments detailed above. I can't do it, although I regularly do my head in at games in front of my three children, which I really prefer I didn't. But I'd never forgive myself if I stepped back and it finally happened without me making the effort I've made for the last 23 seasons. So I'll keep the same Level 2 seats and driving 90 minutes each way and organising my weekends March-August around who we are playing and where.

But I don't begrudge someone stepping back for their own sanity.

 

[gringo2011]

Just on this tangent, I don't think you can downplay what 2009/2010 did to the fan base.

I was born in 1980. For the first decade of my life we were poor and I didn't follow it too much.

Then we came good for a few years and fell back down. (91-92)

But we came good almost straight away. Then fell back again (97-98).

But we came good almost straight away. Then fell back again (04-06).

But we came good almost straight away. Then fell back again (08-11).

After that... we never came back. Most Saints supporters who were at the 2010 GF or were watching closely probably felt the same way when Goddard took the mark - it's finally happening. Then it got ripped from us over the course of the next seven days.

Since then we've never won 13 games in a season (2020 was a 13-9 pace in 22 game parlance but we played 17) and never played in a prelim (between 2000 and 2009 every club played in at least one prelim).

So a supporter base raised on two truths (we've won one flag, and the cycle is swift) now can't hang it's hat on the one truth that contained hope - the speed of the cycle. Because it's been a flat line for a decade.

I can understand the sentiments detailed above. I can't do it, although I regularly do my head in at games in front of my three children, which I really prefer I didn't. But I'd never forgive myself if I stepped back and it finally happened without me making the effort I've made for the last 23 seasons. So I'll keep the same Level 2 seats and driving 90 minutes each way and organising my weekends March-August around who we are playing and where.

But I don't begrudge someone stepping back for their own sanity.

Same, I'm not sure I could afford a dominatrix to give me the same sort of agony as the club cause so I'll hang in. Seriously though it feels like if you step away the campaigners will finally do it and I'll be off doing some trivial pursuit and miss my swig of the flagon.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I get your point but i think both his major injuries (the McKay one and the Butler one) were just complete freak accidents that no one could have avoided.

The same way Hanners’ injuries aren’t related to his knee being taken out in the grand final and Geary isn’t injury prone.

People like to lump together all injuries like they’re the same

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Bytel’a game against Geelong last year impressed me, but I wouldn’t be calling him a Steele clone, reckon Windy is much closer to that. Then again, Bytel hasn’t been given a run at AFL level like Windy has…

I’d much rather us put games into Bytel than say Jones, even though they’re not like for like. Jones was almost running around in that last game vs the Swans like he was Hanners and it was his final AFL game against his old mob. Was getting into s**t campaignerery with Heeney and a few others, not focused on the actual game.

Give me Bytel who has shown he can work hard and focus on a task (did pretty well on Selwood vs Geelong last year) over a FIGJAM type like Jones.

Bytel is like Steele. Windy is different. Steele isn’t anywhere near as agile, doesn’t turn as quick, pick up the ball on the run. Windy doesn’t rack up the tackles and grunt like steele. He’s a big body but he moves and gets the ball like a Sinclair with more inside game.

 

[EconomicDecline]

He was picked as sub so he could reach the 100 game milestone

Exactly. It's like with Sam Rowe in 2019 where the final game as well was a dead rubber. Helping guys get to a milestone like that would foster good will and signal to other players in the league there's a lot of things we're willing to help them with beyond a pay cheque.

Letting a player like Peris develop over another preseason is more sensible than letting him likely get mauled on his debut.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Same, I'm not sure I could afford a dominatrix to give me the same sort of agony as the club cause so I'll hang in. Seriously though it feels like if you step away the campaigners will finally do it and I'll be off doing some trivial pursuit and miss my swig of the flagon.

We're all broken... and that's what unites us.

The last decade has been another 1980's in many ways. Not as horribly unsuccessful in wins v losses but more depressing in many ways as we were soooooo close. So flipping close before the arse fell out of the club yet again.

Anyway, a notification has just popped up on my phone. "He's Home".

Lenny is back.

Pass me the flagon Gringo

 

[Saints43]

Howard plays on the tallest forward and Wilkie generally takes the most dangerous forward (regardless of size).

Trying to diminish what Battle did this year is such a weird angle. Ultimately there is a discussion about trading for another big monster defender (which i dont think we need) and if we got would likely squeeze either Howard or Battle out. I just dont see why we would do that.

How does saying Howard takes the most dangerous forward every week diminish Battle? It was to embiggen Dougs to a poster who doesn't rate him much.

 

[gringo2011]

The same way Hanners’ injuries aren’t related to his knee being taken out in the grand final and Geary isn’t injury prone.

People like to lump together all injuries like they’re the same

Hopefully everyone is right and it's all bad luck and this is the end of it.

 

[#gosaintas]

Same, I'm not sure I could afford a dominatrix to give me the same sort of agony as the club cause so I'll hang in. Seriously though it feels like if you step away the campaigners will finally do it and I'll be off doing some trivial pursuit and miss my swig of the flagon.

My mate and I have a StKilda labeled Spumante that I flogged from the soical club in the early 80's. We've always said that we'll open it if we ever win a flag. It's been in the fridge a few times, 97, 09 and 10, but sadly gets put back in the cupboard afterwards.
It will probably kill us if we do ever drink it.

This shit club.

 

[gringo2011]

My mate and I have a StKilda labeled Spumante that I flogged from the soical club in the early 80's. We've always said that we'll open it if we ever win a flag. It's been in the fridge a few times, 97, 09 and 10, but sadly gets put back in the cupboard afterwards.
It will probably kill us if we do ever drink it.

This s**t club.

What a glorious way to go out though, liver failure after a flag.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

My mate and I have a StKilda labeled Spumante that I flogged from the soical club in the early 80's. We've always said that we'll open it if we ever win a flag. It's been in the fridge a few times, 97, 09 and 10, but sadly gets put back in the cupboard afterwards.
It will probably kill us if we do ever drink it.

This s**t club.

I've got a bottle of Heathcote Saints FC shiraz that is probably closer to paint stripper by now that has been 'put away'.

There's also a bottle of Grange that the wife & I have got for a special occasion... she thinks it's when we pay the house off but little does she know...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My mate and I have a StKilda labeled Spumante that I flogged from the soical club in the early 80's. We've always said that we'll open it if we ever win a flag. It's been in the fridge a few times, 97, 09 and 10, but sadly gets put back in the cupboard afterwards.
It will probably kill us if we do ever drink it.

This s**t club.

I have some StKilda Premiership Port.
Think a family member got it at some Auction thing.

I had it sitting on the coffee table 10.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've got a bottle of Heathcote Saints FC shiraz that is probably closer to paint stripper by now that has been 'put away'.

There's also a bottle of Grange that the wife & I have got for a special occasion... she thinks it's when we pay the house off but little does she know...

Drink it when you pay the house off, then you can get another for when your kids pay their houses off, then you can get another for when the Saints get a premiership.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Drink it when you pay the house off, then you can get another for when your kids pay their houses off, then you can get another for when the Saints get a premiership.

It looks that way.

 

[MightySaint]

At least port doesn't really go off. I'd like to try this before i die.

 

[#gosaintas]

I've got a bottle of Heathcote Saints FC shiraz that is probably closer to paint stripper by now that has been 'put away'.

There's also a bottle of Grange that the wife & I have got for a special occasion... she thinks it's when we pay the house off but little does she know...

I imagine there's plenty of us with something special tucked away just in case it ever happens