List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Premium]

would you do Long for a 2nd and Clark for a late 1st? I would. Maybe picks aren't as important for the Suns as they are for us.

Hate to say it but Clark would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick with his current output.

 

[George]

I think it’s the right move, we look more like a list that’s been culled after a successful run rather than a list about to launch one. We really just don’t have the A grade talent or depth of talent to push up much higher. Look we could probably add a piece or two and with a better fixture make the 8 but realistically that’s this groups limit.

If we’re trying to win a flag we need to have high end talent and quite a bit more of it. Missing youth because of drafts we traded out of has hurt us badly. Really when you think about it late picks and some astute trades have saved us from being a really terrible bottom 6 at best list. Marshall, Wilkie, Sinclair, Steele, crouch, membrey, butler, wood etc is really tremendous work.

I’d be trying to keep our talented players 25 and under but listening to overs offers on anyone.

I'm probably sick in the head but I wouldn't mind a complete cleanout and start again on the proviso that they will do the rebuild the way that has historically worked for other clubs which is to stuff the list full of young talent through the draft and then top up with the missing pieces rather than sit around and hold out hope in the unknown of building a list through trade and experience and adding missing pieces through the draft.

We also don't know if this is the ceiling for this group or not because it could be a case of the coaching holding them back from really firing. It seemed that way under GT, he took us to prelims and finals but we couldn't make that next leap and Ross came in and was the push we needed to go up another gear.

I really love what North are doing in bringing in a really experienced coach and letting build a football department in his vision whilst stockpiling talent through the draft. I have far more faith in that working than what we're doing but that's only because I can actually see examples of it's success. We might be the first club to rebuild in reverse and without any quantifiable evidence of it working it's impossible to know how it ends.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We chased our tail on ruck/forwards there for a while.

2011 - We have McEvoy as primary ruck and Stanley as ruck/forward.
2012 - get Hickey in, ignore Grundy in draft (by trading picks away, not choosing someone else in draft)
2013 - Hickey can play forward a bit, get Longer in, McEvoy becomes expendable.
2014 - Can't play Hickey, Longer and Stanley all together, trade Stanley.
2015 - Play Longer and Hickey together when fitness permits
2016 - Don't play Longer and Hickey together, spend some time on Holmes, draft Marshall in rookie draft.
2017 - Marshall can play ruck/forward
2018 - trade Hickey
2019 - Marshall plays better as ruck, get rid of almost everyone else, trade for Ryder, draft Abbott
2020 - Abbott not very good, delist Abbott, sign McKernan and Hunter
2021 - Hunter not very good, McKernan washed, sign Heath and Campbell

The saga continues...

2016 Seb Ross had more hitouts than Josh Bruce. ( Hickey the most, then Riewoldt, Ross, and Bruce ).

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm probably sick in the head but I wouldn't mind a complete cleanout and start again on the proviso that they will do the rebuild the way that has historically worked for other clubs which is to stuff the list full of young talent through the draft and then top up with the missing pieces rather than sit around and hold out hope in the unknown of building a list through trade and experience and adding missing pieces through the draft.

We also don't know if this is the ceiling for this group or not because it could be a case of the coaching holding them back from really firing. It seemed that way under GT, he took us to prelims and finals but we couldn't make that next leap and Ross came in and was the push we needed to go up another gear.

I really love what North are doing in bringing in a really experienced coach and letting build a football department in his vision whilst stockpiling talent through the draft. I have far more faith in that working than what we're doing but that's only because I can actually see examples of it's success. We might be the first club to rebuild in reverse and without any quantifiable evidence of it working it's impossible to know how it ends.

Keep enough talent to stop getting smacked but yes we need to build a group that can add some pieces and be in contention for years. We play to win premierships not make up the numbers, although as saints supporter that’s sometimes forgotten.

 

[sauce_head]

is everyone waiting with baited breath for brendan goddards opinion of a fair trade?im thinking it goes something like this

ham or francis of essendon would be worth trumps mar a lago mansion,a private jet & a dozen ferraris,while hunter clark would be worth a packet of boiled lollies & what donald gets his west wing house boy to scrape off his shoes after a round of golf
(geez its hard to remember that guys marks and individual gf games with any joy now)

Sounds like the cool aid has still not worn off or has done permanent damage. Maybe that is what they will ultimately make a film about?

 

[D2D3]

Hate to say it but Clark would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick with his current output.

Hopefully if that is all we are offered we aren’t stupid enough to take it.

 

[The Punter]

2016 Seb Ross had more hitouts than Josh Bruce. ( Hickey the most, then Riewoldt, Ross, and Bruce ).

It was our one tactical win in that decade - we made an art form of third man up at a ruck contest - the AFL swiftly outlawed the practice.

 

[Premium]

What specific deals do you think we will make that suggest we are re-setting and aiming to go down the ladder?

After moving on Richardson I would say we are 3 yrs into a re-build and knowing we now have very few of the Riewoldt era players left in the team we should start to see the results.
The cull has been sustained for 3 season's and we could well see it again this year to bring us a edge we are missing.

People saying we are re-setting must be blind to what has been happening at the club - Lethlean has totally revamped the club and the work taken to lift the club should start to show the results.

 

[Yawkey way]

After moving on Richardson I would say we are 3 yrs into a re-build and knowing we now have very few of the Riewoldt era players left in the team we should start to see the results.
The cull has been sustained for 3 season's and we could well see it again this year to bring us a edge we are missing.

People saying we are re-setting must be blind to what has been happening at the club - Lethlean has totally revamped the club and the work taken to lift the club should start to show the results.

Yeah I must be blind, I think you might need to explain how we’ve screamed we’re a top 4 team but have clearly decided on reflection that’s not the case. Lethlean revamped, lift the club, show results, ok I’m through the looking glass for sure.

 

[George]

Keep enough talent to stop getting smacked but yes we need to build a group that can add some pieces and be in contention for years. We play to win premierships not make up the numbers, although as saints supporter that’s sometimes forgotten.

There's about a dozen players on the list that we need to stick around and build the foundations from. For me it's Coffield, Gresham, NWM, Clark, King, Windhager, Marshall, Higgins, Owens, Battle, Paton, Highmore, Steele, Sinclair, Sharman, McKenzie, Wilkie. That's 17. Quite frankly the rest of the list for me is either one of trade bait, delistable, in an older bracket, or probably won't be part of the next premiership.

It's a big enough group to come through together and build a culture around but we need more talent to come up under guys like Marshall, McKenzie, Sinclair, Steele and Wilkie who will all be either 28 or 29 by 2024.

We need to hit the draft hard this year, we need something ridiculous like 3 or 4 picks inside the first 2 rounds. Supplement it with mature age players (21, 22, 23, or 24 year olds) through state leagues if need be later on, we seem to do well with those. And then do it again next year.

It all changes pretty quickly in footy so I still hold out hope that the turnaround can be short and sharp but it feels like we are doing a bit of tugging at the band-aid rather than just ripping it off. It we go hard at the draft with a look to youth for the next two years, and if that means dropping down the ladder, I am happy to do it rather than hang around 6th to 10th basically making up the numbers whilst we remove ourselves from the absolute top end of the draft in the process.

Personally I think we have the talent right now to compete with the best sides and it may sound strange but I consider the list to be competing for top four right now. It's not a list that will contend for a decade but it can snatch a premiership, however we are really under-performing. What I'm most worried about however is what the actual issue is. Issues with coaching or lack of talent is easy, cut hard for a couple years and bring in better people and it's basically sorted. However, I believe the main issue to be mental resilience and if that's the case then it doesn't matter who we bring in or out and will be a far bigger problem for us which will take years to fix.

 

[Sainter1873]

We don’t need to bottom out and rebuild. We just need to keep building. Take our first few picks to the draft every year and, provided we select well (big if), in three or four years we will have a strong list. In the meantime keep going after the right FAs.

Ross, Membrey and a few blokes around their age will be on the verge of retiring but all premiership lists have players across the age brackets.

The draft is vital to building a proper list. But there’s no need to bottom out anymore. Staying competitive means FAs and trade targets are more likely to sign anyway.

 

[Veer Right]

Hate to say it but Clark would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick with his current output.

He will due to his age and what he CAN do opposed to what he has been doing. No worse a pick then we paid for Higgins.

 

[Premium]

There's about a dozen players on the list that we need to stick around and build the foundations from. For me it's Coffield, Gresham, NWM, Clark, King, Windhager, Marshall, Higgins, Owens, Battle, Paton, Highmore, Steele, Sinclair, Sharman, McKenzie, Wilkie. That's 17. Quite frankly the rest of the list for me is either one of trade bait, delistable, in an older bracket, or probably won't be part of the next premiership.

It's a big enough group to come through together and build a culture around but we need more talent to come up under guys like Marshall, McKenzie, Sinclair, Steele and Wilkie who will all be either 28 or 29 by 2024.

We need to hit the draft hard this year, we need something ridiculous like 3 or 4 picks inside the first 2 rounds. Supplement it with mature age players (21, 22, 23, or 24 year olds) through state leagues if need be later on, we seem to do well with those. And then do it again next year.

It all changes pretty quickly in footy so I still hold out hope that the turnaround can be short and sharp but it feels like we are doing a bit of tugging at the band-aid rather than just ripping it off. It we go hard at the draft with a look to youth for the next two years, and if that means dropping down the ladder, I am happy to do it rather than hang around 6th to 10th basically making up the numbers whilst we remove ourselves from the absolute top end of the draft in the process.

Personally I think we have the talent right now to compete with the best sides and it may sound strange but I consider the list to be competing for top four right now. It's not a list that will contend for a decade but it can snatch a premiership, however we are really under-performing. What I'm most worried about however is what the actual issue is. Issues with coaching or lack of talent is easy, cut hard for a couple years and bring in better people and it's basically sorted. However, I believe the main issue to be mental resilience and if that's the case then it doesn't matter who we bring in or out and will be a far bigger problem for us which will take years to fix.

Even before looking at attracting players to the club , you only have to look a who consistently performed this year and you will see that maybe 3 players could hold there hand up (Crouch , Sinclair , Wilkie ), most of the players went missing in a hell of a lot of games.

And for us to improve we only need a few more to put there hand up before we start being a threat to the top teams and that is not even looking at the younger guys stepping up another level.

Amazing we only just missed out on finals with a team that really never really played on 4 cylinders all year.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Come home Dusty. $650 p/y should do the trick.

 

[jh38]

He will due to his age and what he CAN do opposed to what he has been doing. No worse a pick then we paid for Higgins.

Higgins has shown a lot more at the top level and its clear to see he still can become a lot better; I just don't get that feeling from Hunter anymore. He's stagnated big time, if he doesn't have a big season next year then I think its worth offloading him. Maybe the club sees the same thing and are just trying to cut their losses and cash in on his potential.

 

[Minga]

So there’s talk that Richmond might land Tarranto and Hopper. Hypothetically if this happens that’s:

5 top 30 draft picks last year including Gibcus and Sonsie.

2 young mids who are a couple of years away from their prime in Tarranto and Hopper this year.

All whilst continuing to make finals this year.

Not bad for coming straight off 3 flags. I’m envious if they manage to pull it all off. Only element of that which seems unlikely is Hopper but still in play it seems.

So people were saying Hopper wasn’t a chance to go to the Tigers

5 top 30 draft picks last year
Hopper and Tarranto this year
Made finals

Interesting to see how this works out for them but clearly looks good on paper.

 

[Sainter1873]

Come home Dusty. $650 p/y should do the trick.

Could Cotchin and Riewoldt have freed up that much money taking pay cuts? I guess they’ve lost Edwards and Lambert too.

Good work by them though.

 

[Veer Right]

Higgins has shown a lot more at the top level and its clear to see he still can become a lot better; I just don't get that feeling from Hunter anymore. He's stagnated big time, if he doesn't have a big season next year then I think its worth offloading him. Maybe the club sees the same thing and are just trying to cut their losses and cash in on his potential.

I am with you on what you are seeing. I'm for trading him this year if that nets us an early second. Keep and hope he improves big time, if not.

 

[Yawkey way]

There's about a dozen players on the list that we need to stick around and build the foundations from. For me it's Coffield, Gresham, NWM, Clark, King, Windhager, Marshall, Higgins, Owens, Battle, Paton, Highmore, Steele, Sinclair, Sharman, McKenzie, Wilkie. That's 17. Quite frankly the rest of the list for me is either one of trade bait, delistable, in an older bracket, or probably won't be part of the next premiership.

It's a big enough group to come through together and build a culture around but we need more talent to come up under guys like Marshall, McKenzie, Sinclair, Steele and Wilkie who will all be either 28 or 29 by 2024.

We need to hit the draft hard this year, we need something ridiculous like 3 or 4 picks inside the first 2 rounds. Supplement it with mature age players (21, 22, 23, or 24 year olds) through state leagues if need be later on, we seem to do well with those. And then do it again next year.

It all changes pretty quickly in footy so I still hold out hope that the turnaround can be short and sharp but it feels like we are doing a bit of tugging at the band-aid rather than just ripping it off. It we go hard at the draft with a look to youth for the next two years, and if that means dropping down the ladder, I am happy to do it rather than hang around 6th to 10th basically making up the numbers whilst we remove ourselves from the absolute top end of the draft in the process.

Personally I think we have the talent right now to compete with the best sides and it may sound strange but I consider the list to be competing for top four right now. It's not a list that will contend for a decade but it can snatch a premiership, however we are really under-performing. What I'm most worried about however is what the actual issue is. Issues with coaching or lack of talent is easy, cut hard for a couple years and bring in better people and it's basically sorted. However, I believe the main issue to be mental resilience and if that's the case then it doesn't matter who we bring in or out and will be a far bigger problem for us which will take years to fix.

I’m very wary of high draft picks who don’t have all the tools it's a recipe for mediocrity imo. I’m not just talking about pace and foot skills, you have to be able to win contested ball, compete in the air and hate loosing.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Could Cotchin and Riewoldt have freed up that much money taking pay cuts? I guess they’ve lost Edwards and Lambert too.

Good work by them though.

I can’t see it working without losing Dusty, but then again all the big clubs find ways to rort the cap

 

[snails13]

If we trade my boy Hunter and lose Longy in the same off season without bringing JDG in - imma have to take a step back I think. Where is the excitement, if we’re s**t on field with zero success AND my favourite players keep getting axed??? Going to be hard to gee myself up for games.

So does that mean you will watch in bed

 

[BrutThough]

Could Cotchin and Riewoldt have freed up that much money taking pay cuts? I guess they’ve lost Edwards and Lambert too.

Good work by them though.

Probably heavily back ended deals for when Dusty's money is gone and expecting the salary cap to go up with the new broadcast deal.

 

[#gosaintas]

Hate to say it but Clark would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick with his current output.

In that case we just say no

 

[jh38]

I am with you on what you are seeing. I'm for trading him this year if that nets us an early second. Keep and hope he improves big time, if not.

I would happily package him and Long and send them to Gold Coast. Wouldn't mind a 3 way trade with Adelaide that sees us land Pick 5. I think there would be a bit of swapping of later picks too

 

[Yawkey way]

I am with you on what you are seeing. I'm for trading him this year if that nets us an early second. Keep and hope he improves big time, if not.

Oh god no you must be kidding, Higgins is a pony next to a thoroughbred. Terrible trade I doubt he’s even best 22 moving forward.