Preview 2023 Rd 21 Carlton vs St Kilda Sunday August 6 3:20PM @ Marvel Stadium

[Aphrodite]

Final Team is in …

2 changes


IN: Fisher
OUT: Cerra (hamstring), McGovern (hamstring)

After starting last weekend as sub, Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

has been elevated into the starting side.

AFL team news: Two changes for Round 21

Carlton has named its Round 21 team to take on St Kilda.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Backs:	Brodie Kemp	Jacob Weitering	Nic Newman
Half-backs:	Alex Cincotta	Caleb Marchbank	Adam Saad
Centreline:	Sam Docherty	Patrick Cripps	Oliver Hollands
Half-forwards:	Jack Martin	Charlie Curnow	Zac Fisher
Forwards:	Jesse Motlop	Marc Pittonet	Matthew Owies
Followers:	Tom De Koning	George Hewett	Paddy Dow
Interchange:	Blake Acres	Matthew Cottrell	David Cuningham
	Lachie Fogarty
Emergencies:	Jaxon Binns	Ed Curnow	Sam Durdin
	Josh Honey

 

[ESKIE]

1 point will do, anything just beat these tossers

 

[kreuze_missile]

This game must be very close to sold out.

They are now selling reserved seats half way up Level 3. General admission is going to be PACKED. Zero tickets for AFL/MCC members available.

Seem to be a couple of "on demand" tickets Level 2 wing for $149 each. Never seen this "on demand" thing before but looks like legalised scalping

 

[HarryBeef]

I understand the frustration, he’s been a slow burn for a variety of reasons there’s parts of his game that have been disappointing which we all thought he’d be a bit further advanced and a bit more consistent…

He still has some work to do, all aspects of his marking for me is one of the biggest pieces of his game that is holding him back from putting it all together…

His workrate pressure tackling chasing commitment is fantastic and he’s a team player, there’s a noticeable difference in some parts of his game of late when playing as the main ruckman, once the belief that he knows he belongs comes so will the consistency…

24 yrs & 53 games…

Just over 2 games a year, very disappointing output

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Just over 2 games a year, very disappointing output

Well it depends on how you like look at it and break it down, a young raw ruckman in most cases wouldn’t be playing a hell of a lot of senior footy within the first 2/3 season of his career, in his first 2 seasons of his development he missed more than half in both seasons through unlucky injuries, both around the 10/12 weeks mark, although it was reserves it’s important development missed…

Has also had other minor setbacks during his time at the club, he was a pretty gangly kid for a 203cm ruckman who has taken a while to properly fill out, it’s only this year he really has the proper strength/ability to compete with all ruckman throughout the competition…

Recruited in 2017, July born has just turned 24yrs old and has currently played 53 games so his in his 6th season, should take that to close to the 60 games mark by end of year, take out his first two seasons he is averaging around 15 games, he’s actually going all right…

He’s just scratching the surface…

 

[ctwenty1]

Hawthorn put 6 goals on them in the second quarter - we can do that in the first 15-20 minutes.
There is no way they kick 9 in the 1st quarter again.
We come out & hunt them it should be done by half way thru the 2nd quarter.
We can’t take them lightly but we sure as hell won’t be fearing them.
1 quarter of us at 90% the game should be over, hopefully we do it early & just keep a foot on there neck all game. Would like to see us kick 2 for every one they put on (after we kick 5-6 on them early)

Be done at quarter time.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

I’ll come right out and state this - if we can’t beat Aints this week we just don’t deserve to play finals.

This is a team that in the past 2 weeks has battled to the death to beat Roos (Roos lost to WC its next game) and were hardly scintillating v Hawks last week. Sure they have some key players back but they shouldn’t be the game changers.

On form, even with key players out, we win 3-5 goals. We are way better than the team that lost by 20 pts to them earlier in the year - just ask the Pies!

Only if Aints want finals more do they beat us. After last years listless capitulation against them, which arguably cost us finals, we can’t let this happen again.

Statement game for us, a game we must treat as a mini final, we just have to cope with it to be a true 8 team this year.

 

[ctwenty1]

How old does a 200cm player need to be to be able to consistently perform a basic skill of the game?

He played one crazy game recently but the jury is still very much out...despite the media love in (which I just saw as a bunch of prices trying to drive his value up).

I would hope by next season (25) we see some consistency.

My kicking is a lot better as a plus 40 year old compared to me at 25.

Skills for Aussie rules take time

 

[RudyBlue]

Sinclair having a very good year. He's the biggest concern due to his speed and spread from stoppage

Martin and/or Fog to run through him

No problem

 

[Monty1978]

This game must be very close to sold out.

They are now selling reserved seats half way up Level 3. General admission is going to be PACKED. Zero tickets for AFL/MCC members available.

Seem to be a couple of "on demand" tickets Level 2 wing for $149 each. Never seen this "on demand" thing before but looks like legalised scalping

Every game Carlton plays is like that at marvel and the way they release
Tickets annoys me .. they do it in batches … check today no tickets , come
Friday they release tickets for level 1 .. happened to me for west coast and port game .. sat level 1 after checking all week and got my tickets Friday

 

[bluesfever16]

Well it depends on how you like look at it and break it down, a young raw ruckman in most cases wouldn’t be playing a hell of a lot of senior footy within the first 2/3 season of his career, in his first 2 seasons of his development he missed more than half in both seasons through unlucky injuries, both around the 10/12 weeks mark, although it was reserves it’s important development missed…

Has also had other minor setbacks during his time at the club, he was a pretty gangly kid for a 203cm ruckman who has taken a while to properly fill out, it’s only this year he really has the proper strength/ability to compete with all ruckman throughout the competition…

Recruited in 2017, July born has just turned 24yrs old and has currently played 53 games so his in his 6th season, should take that to close to the 60 games mark by end of year, take out his first two seasons he is averaging around 15 games, he’s actually going all right…

He’s just scratching the surface…

I agree with most of what you said with him taking time as a ruckman. I have to put my hand up because before the year I said he was behind pitto in the pecking order but as the season has gone on he has overtaken him so he deserves credit for that. My criticism stems from people/media who try and paint him out to be a forward and make ridiculous excuses for why he doesn't perform up forward. I can name you many forwards that were considerably better than him at a younger age. McGovern kicked 30+ goals as a 21 year old in his 1st year playing senior AFL yet the way people speak about TDK they speak as if he's some 19 year old draftee. I still to this day believe Gov should never have even been moved back but anyway that's a completely different argument. But back to TDK he's 24. Lets just call it as it is he isn't a forward, and if he is then he isn't a good one.
Kane Cornes always says Luke Jackson isn't a forward (which I agree with), but Jackson despite being younger than TDK and playing under Gawn/Darcy like TDK has under pitto still has kicked many more goals than TDK and has a better goal average than him, yet Cornes always goes on about TDK being this forward. But our club continue to try and turn him into one instead of playing to he's strengths as a ruck which is what annoys me.

 

[HarryBeef]

Well it depends on how you like look at it and break it down, a young raw ruckman in most cases wouldn’t be playing a hell of a lot of senior footy within the first 2/3 season of his career, in his first 2 seasons of his development he missed more than half in both seasons through unlucky injuries, both around the 10/12 weeks mark, although it was reserves it’s important development missed…

Has also had other minor setbacks during his time at the club, he was a pretty gangly kid for a 203cm ruckman who has taken a while to properly fill out, it’s only this year he really has the proper strength/ability to compete with all ruckman throughout the competition…

Recruited in 2017, July born has just turned 24yrs old and has currently played 53 games so his in his 6th season, should take that to close to the 60 games mark by end of year, take out his first two seasons he is averaging around 15 games, he’s actually going all right…

He’s just scratching the surface…

What was he doing his first 18 years, just dilly dallying about?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I’ve never thought TDK was more of a forward than ruckman, he’s always been a ruckman who has the scope to play as a resting forward at times, the one major thing in his game that is holding him back from being a far better player/ruck and the chance to do some damage when played forward is his marking, he gets his hands to so many opportunities in contests or the drops easy ones he should be taking…
I’m sounding like a broken record here but his marking is a major key to him taking the game by the scruff of the neck over the entire ground…

I think the club has played him forward at times out of necessity, injuries or structural sometimes both, also for development, he isn’t a natural playing forward but he does contest and sometimes that’s what you need…

Kornflakes, I’m not a fan of so anything he usually says id take with a grain of salt, there’s much better opinions out there and in media land…

 

[haveago]

What was he doing his first 18 years, just dilly dallying about?

Maybe he was fannying about?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

What was he doing his first 18 years, just dilly dallying about?

What are you on about Beefy?

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I'm going to play the new age leftie here, but I reckon some of the disparaging comments on here about the Saints and being a rabble, pathetic etc are way over the top - and frankly a bit deluded given our monumental list of failures over the last 20 years.

 

[bluesfever16]

I’ve never thought TDK was more of a forward than ruckman, he’s always been a ruckman who has the scope to play as a resting forward at times, the one major thing in his game that is holding him back from being a far better player/ruck and the chance to do some damage when played forward is his marking, he gets his hands to so many opportunities in contests or the drops easy ones he should be taking…
I’m sounding like a broken record here but his marking is a major key to him taking the game by the scruff of the neck over the entire ground…

I think the club has played him forward at times out of necessity, injuries or structural sometimes both, also for development, he isn’t a natural playing forward but he does contest and sometimes that’s what you need…

Kornflakes, I’m not a fan of so anything he usually says id take with a grain of salt, there’s much better opinions out there and in media land…I

It has been mentioned by a couple of people on this thread but TDK generally performs better in the air when in the ruck as a spare behind the ball compared to up forward. However I slightly disagree when you said we've sometimes played him forward out of necessity. I can give you examples where Voss has tried to mould TDK into a forward and failed miserably.
1. The first batch of games in the voss era. TDK played as a fwd/ruck and was a passenger in all the games (not in the ruck but as a fwd) but people swept it under the carpet because we won those games. However after R4 he got dropped as a result of his poor output and only returned a week later because JSOS was a late out against freo.

2. R20 v Adelaide. This was the infamous game were JSOS got dropped and Voss brought back pitto which meant TDK played fwd. He played on Josh Worrell who was a 2nd gamer and got torn apart. Pitto was then out with "illness" against Brisbane and then TDK got dropped for the final 2 games, despite the fact that Pitto was underdone and having blood drained from his knee.

3. R2-R5 2023. Jack Martin was a late out and pitto came in, meaning TDK played fwd again during this stretch. Again, little to no impact as a forward, the only goal he kicked was a dodgy 50m against Ziebell. He then was 'managed' for the STK game off a 10 day break. But everyone with half a brain knows he was dropped because he played VFL the week after against Footscray.

4. R11 v Sydney. Once TDK returned from a concussion he played an excellent game against Williamstown as a ruck (he barely played fwd in this game) and returned to the AFL but played predominately as a forward and was poor. Then pitto had surgery on his hand which meant TDK became the sole ruck, but if pitto didn't have surgery I am very confident that TDK would've continued to play as a fwd against dees and dons.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

I’ve never thought TDK was more of a forward than ruckman, he’s always been a ruckman who has the scope to play as a resting forward at times, the one major thing in his game that is holding him back from being a far better player/ruck and the chance to do some damage when played forward is his marking, he gets his hands to so many opportunities in contests or the drops easy ones he should be taking…
I’m sounding like a broken record here but his marking is a major key to him taking the game by the scruff of the neck over the entire ground…

I think the club has played him forward at times out of necessity, injuries or structural sometimes both, also for development, he isn’t a natural playing forward but he does contest and sometimes that’s what you need…

Kornflakes, I’m not a fan of so anything he usually says id take with a grain of salt, there’s much better opinions out there and in media land…

Yep good rucks play 85-90% game time .. both our rucks are rucks and there total output combined was virtually Eqaul to Cameron so one position is wasted - lucky they went with Cox as he was just as bad a part time ruck fwd ..
by next season you would hope TDK is main ruck Pitto back up and someone can play the missing 10-15 % as for mine Pitto has never offered enough mobility and isn't good enough overhead around the ground -- it was an indictment on them that we never got a get out kick marked down the wing all night out of either ..
I know he is a Coleman medalist now with knee weakness now but I always thought Mackay would be perfect ruck fwd in the early career Paul Salmon mould

 

[TeeJay Blue]

For some reason, I am never confident with Carlton walking into the weekend against the Saints. We always seem to be their bunnies.

I remember last year's encounter all too well as it was on the Friday night I was at a work gathering farewelling a few long time colleagues. How incredibly frustrating it was. How we kept turning the ball over in the opening quarter. Left a half back in Sinclair to absolutely mop the floor with us on his own. And the shots for goal were some of the worst I had seen from recent memory.

I sure hope the guys have their kicking boots on this time.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

It has been mentioned by a couple of people on this thread but TDK generally performs better in the air when in the ruck as a spare behind the ball compared to up forward. However I slightly disagree when you said we've sometimes played him forward out of necessity. I can give you examples where Voss has tried to mould TDK into a forward and failed miserably.
1. The first batch of games in the voss era. TDK played as a fwd/ruck and was a passenger in all the games (not in the ruck but as a fwd) but people swept it under the carpet because we won those games. However after R4 he got dropped as a result of his poor output and only returned a week later because JSOS was a late out against freo.

2. R20 v Adelaide. This was the infamous game were JSOS got dropped and Voss brought back pitto which meant TDK played fwd. He played on Josh Worrell who was a 2nd gamer and got torn apart. Pitto was then out with "illness" against Brisbane and then TDK got dropped for the final 2 games, despite the fact that Pitto was underdone and having blood drained from his knee.

3. R2-R5 2023. Jack Martin was a late out and pitto came in, meaning TDK played fwd again during this stretch. Again, little to no impact as a forward, the only goal he kicked was a dodgy 50m against Ziebell. He then was 'managed' for the STK game off a 10 day break. But everyone with half a brain knows he was dropped because he played VFL the week after against Footscray.

4. R11 v Sydney. Once TDK returned from a concussion he played an excellent game against Williamstown as a ruck (he barely played fwd in this game) and returned to the AFL but played predominately as a forward and was poor. Then pitto had surgery on his hand which meant TDK became the sole ruck, but if pitto didn't have surgery I am very confident that TDK would've continued to play as a fwd against dees and dons.

All good examples, not disagreeing with you on anything you have stated there, rightly or wrongly he has been tried up forward with very little success, sometimes there’s something that you see in someone that thinks that they could do well in a role/area on the ground, sometimes it works pays off and others not so much…
It hasn’t to this stage payed off him playing forward…

 

[rp84]

My kicking is a lot better as a plus 40 year old compared to me at 25.

Skills for Aussie rules take time

My kicking was elite on 2 feet in my 20s and I can't kick over a jam tin now.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Yep good rucks play 85-90% game time .. both our rucks are rucks and there total output combined was virtually Eqaul to Cameron so one position is wasted - lucky they went with Cox as he was just as bad a part time ruck fwd ..
by next season you would hope TDK is main ruck Pitto back up and someone can play the missing 10-15 % as for mine Pitto has never offered enough mobility and isn't good enough overhead around the ground -- it was an indictment on them that we never got a get out kick marked down the wing all night out of either ..
I know he is a Coleman medalist now with knee weakness now but I always thought Mackay would be perfect ruck fwd in the early career Paul Salmon mould

I think from next year that TDK will be our first choice ruckman and playing the majority of the game time, if JSOS stays i do like that combination of him pinch hitting in there which makes us more mobile/versatile…
Having a once again fully fit Pittonet will be a bonus and there ready to go incase we need him, don’t mind Harry taking most of the forward ruck contests just don’t think he should be contesting any centre square stuff, far to valuable as a forward imo…

 

[JJBagger]

For some reason, I am never confident with Carlton walking into the weekend against the Saints. We always seem to be their bunnies.

I remember last year's encounter all too well as it was on the Friday night I was at a work gathering farewelling a few long time colleagues. How incredibly frustrating it was. How we kept turning the ball over in the opening quarter. Left a half back in Sinclair to absolutely mop the floor with us on his own. And the shots for goal were some of the worst I had seen from recent memory.

I sure hope the guys have their kicking boots on this time.

We have a 2-3 record in our last 5 games against the saints (2-1 record under Teague), including having the biggest winning margin of all 5 games. They beat us up when they were a mid-table side and we were horrible. We kicked ourselves out of the game last year, and we were at the start of our run of playing horribly.

I can’t stand the mob, but they have hardly dominated this matchup in recent years

 

[sbwan]

I don't stress too much about recent Saints losses. The one earlier this year, we were in a form slump and we were even behind North at half time two weeks before, and had just been touched up by Adelaide. The game last year, we pretty comfortably win if we don't completely kick ourselves out of it.

I'm not underestimating the challenge this week and concerned about the amount of players we have out with their list probably in the best injury shape it's been in for some time. But I don't feel like it's a case of them matching up incredibly well against us at the moment or anything along those lines.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Maybe he was fannying about?

Absolutely love this show. Gold class comedy.

This weekend, arses will be on the line so the boys better pull their fingers out.

 

[Les Grossman playaaaa]

With respect to this game............


Externally I'm like.......




Internally I'm like.......




But actually I think it's more like........




Because at the end of the game I'll be like.........