List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[Section 5]

Billings, Hately, Bonner, scream list cloggers to me. We don't have to pick up a delistee you know?

You are most likely correct.
But apart from pick 27 which will end up early 30's the Lions will just take the next best available player on their draft board.
That could work out okay but a bit of a gamble.

If there is a suitable player out of contract somewhere but not resigned yet it may be better to go that route than going to the draft this year.
Possibly no player falls into that category, but you never know if the club has one in their sights. We on BF have no idea about that possibility.

Not sure if we have an academy player rated in the top 30, briztoon will know.

Below our National draft picks above 30 since 2014. This excludes Academy/Zone/Father Son selections and the rookie draft.

2014	(Pick 65) J Watts	(73) J McGrath	(81) J McGuinness
2015	(39) Rhys Mathieson	(47) S Skinner
2016	(71) Cory Lyons
2017	(41) T Wooller
2018	(36) Tom Berry	(40) T Joyce	(55) Answerth
2019	(33) Broc Smith	(59) J Prior
2020	(48) Henry Smith	(43) Sharp
2021	(41) Tunstill

2022

Nil

 

[Mr Ripper]

Billings, Hately, Bonner, scream list cloggers to me. We don't have to pick up a delistee you know?

We’ll need cover for all the list-cloggers we’ve just delisted.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Billings, Hately, Bonner, scream list cloggers to me. We don't have to pick up a delistee you know?

Collingwood have done alright picking up players that weren’t best 22

Plus we’re going to lose some list cloggers which are required depth

 

[AFLQLD]

I think that a certain proportion of every list contains the so-called list cloggers. Drafting and trading is a pretty inexact science, all things considered.

Some players are speculative anyway, so a decent proportion of them won’t work out as hoped. Some players look to have the right requirements on paper but can’t ultimately translate it to grass. Some players are probably break-glass-in-emergency types who are there if there is an injury crisis. And some players are just young and undeveloped and just need enough time.

On the whole, having reasonable coverage for every position and role is probably the aim. List turnover has to result in keeping an eye to the future and enough coverage for the present. I don’t think any club ever gets their list more than about 80% right. If they did, that club would be winning every year and be full of AA players.

And sometimes, a so-called list clogger keeps working hard and ends up playing in a grand final, Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

.

 

[briztoon]

I’m not across other teams lists to know who is a senior listed player and who is a rookie listed player, but looking at the current list of delisted players, there’s a lot.

Many more than the rumoured number of potential drafted players this year.

EXPLAINER: Everything you need to know about Free Agency, Trade

Here's everything you need to know about the Trade Period, Free Agency and more

www.afl.com.au

 

[Section 5]

I’m not across other teams lists to know who is a senior listed player and who is a rookie listed player, but looking at the current list of delisted players, there’s a lot.

Many more than the rumoured number of potential drafted players this year.

EXPLAINER: Everything you need to know about Free Agency, Trade

Here's everything you need to know about the Trade Period, Free Agency and more

www.afl.com.au

I am not so much interested in the delisted players they are a big gamble. But sometimes they work like Markov to Pies.
It is the players OOC that their club has yet to resign that may be interested in a move to the Lions.
Lions would have to be interested of course.
The club holds onto them as some have slight trade value if anyone is interested. Fullarton for example.

Also, any player with 1 year left on contract may be gettable for not much draft capital, if they suit our needs.

List of all clubs OOC players from footywire. Not sure how accurate it is.
To get 2024 just change the year

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2024

List of AFL players coming out of contract at the end of 2024.

www.footywire.com

 

[M Malice]

I am not so much interested in the delisted players they are a big gamble. But sometimes they work like Markov to Pies.
It is the players OOC that their club has yet to resign that may be interested in a move to the Lions.
Lions would have to be interested of course.
The club holds onto them as some have slight trade value if anyone is interested. Fullarton for example.

Also, any player with 1 year left on contract may be gettable for not much draft capital, if they suit our needs.

List of all clubs OOC players from footywire. Not sure how accurate it is.
To get 2024 just change the year

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2024

List of AFL players coming out of contract at the end of 2024.

www.footywire.com

Not one single guy on that OOC list gets me excited about the idea of them coming to the Lions.

 

[Section 5]

Not one single guy on that OOC list gets me excited about the idea of them coming to the Lions.

Don't want Doedee

 

[briztoon]

I am not so much interested in the delisted players they are a big gamble. But sometimes they work like Markov to Pies.
It is the players OOC that their club has yet to resign that may be interested in a move to the Lions.
Lions would have to be interested of course.
The club holds onto them as some have slight trade value if anyone is interested. Fullarton for example.

Also, any player with 1 year left on contract may be gettable for not much draft capital, if they suit our needs.

List of all clubs OOC players from footywire. Not sure how accurate it is.
To get 2024 just change the year

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2024

List of AFL players coming out of contract at the end of 2024.

www.footywire.com

I wasn’t looking at the delisted players to see if there are any I’d be interested in (that’s not true).

I was looking at how many over all, just to get a gage on how many spots teams will be looking to fill at the draft.

 

[BuntonRules]

Father Sons don’t have any bid matching restrictions on them.

Academy boys do have bid matching restrictions that I covered in a previous post yesterday.

We can match Levi and Marshall in the first round next year, even if we finish top 4.

If Gillett puts together a good top age year, and comes in to first round contention, we might have to make a decision about which academy kid to match.

Whomever is bid on first, I would imagine. Would not like to punt on losing our matching advanages.

 

[briztoon]

Whomever is bid on first, I would imagine. Would not like to punt on losing our matching advanages.

Gillett is a 200cm+ ruck forward. Will likely be a long term project.

Sam Marshall looks like a good balanced mid who can also play wing.

Marshall probably is bid on first, but Gillett might be more of a need, long term.

 

[RoyBoy17]

You are most likely correct.
But apart from pick 27 which will end up early 30's the Lions will just take the next best available player on their draft board.
That could work out okay but a bit of a gamble.

If there is a suitable player out of contract somewhere but not resigned yet it may be better to go that route than going to the draft this year.
Possibly no player falls into that category, but you never know if the club has one in their sights. We on BF have no idea about that possibility.

Not sure if we have an academy player rated in the top 30, briztoon will know.

Below our National draft picks above 30 since 2014. This excludes Academy/Zone/Father Son selections and the rookie draft.

2014	(Pick 65) J Watts	(73) J McGrath	(81) J McGuinness
2015	(39) Rhys Mathieson	(47) S Skinner
2016	(71) Cory Lyons
2017	(41) T Wooller
2018	(36) Tom Berry	(40) T Joyce	(55) Answerth
2019	(33) Broc Smith	(59) J Prior
2020	(48) Henry Smith	(43) Sharp
2021	(41) Tunstill

2022

Nil

When I see this it reinforces the idea that we should look to recruit mature age players with selections post 30/40 pending draft year quality.

I still think there are plenty of reserve grade players around the country that are early to mid twenties that will be more of a chance to play 100 games than a gamble on a 17/18 year old kid. They are also ready to go and have exposed form against men. Target the best kid available with the first and second rounders then get creative and recruit men with late picks to fill specific/ urgent needs.

 

[ItsRaynerGoals]

Billings, Hately, Bonner, scream list cloggers to me. We don't have to pick up a delistee you know?

Amenthe insatiable appetite to trade people in is unreal, we just lost a granny by 4 points! These blokes couldn’t get a game in teams either not far off us or bottom 8.

 

[pod17]

Amenthe insatiable appetite to trade people in is unreal, we just lost a granny by 4 points! These blokes couldn’t get a game in teams either not far off us or bottom 8.

I disagree somewhat. Yes, they might not getting consistent games at their current club, but that can be due to a number of reasons. Markov not playing at GC, now a premiership player at the Pies. Lyons playing twos for GC, then had several good years in the firsts with us. Craig Bolton playing reserves for us, All Aus and premiership player for the Swans etc. etc.
With us being right in the middle of our premiership window, carrying some experience should one of our starting players go down is not bad business. Relying on first year players to cover injuries is a big ask, and many of those being discussed have shown they can contribute at AFL level, which is important considering any draftee is speculative (the average AFL career last I remember was around 30 games - mostly all of the players discussed have played more than that).

 

[AFLQLD]

The balance between drafting and trading is a tricky one for list managers I would imagine.

It is funny how I think of drafting and trading at this time of year.

Drafting seems like getting a Christmas present and unwrapping it to see what you have. Last year we got a PS5 for Christmas! Thanks Santa! Next year, a new iPhone! And maybe some cool accessories.

Trading seems like getting a new power tool or lawn mower. It is different to what you had but you kind of already know what it will do. Last year we got a top of the line one.

This year there will be minimal presents under the tree but maybe something nice and practical which we come to appreciate more as time goes on. Hopefully not socks from grandma, something a bit better.

And we will get a used power tool through trade which just needs a bit of time and care and will then be pretty serviceable hopefully.

 

[BRAB]

We’re also looking at improving that group around the 25-30 mark on our list when we’re talking about delisted players I imagine. If the only other option is selecting a teenager at pick 75 in a shallow draft you can see why people might think a delisted player on a 1 year contract during a premiership year might be a better option, especially when we have lots of talent due to join the club in the 2024 draft.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Not really.

But Robertson is the hero West Coast needs. Probably not the hero West Coast fans want.

That you Dev?

 

[briztoon]

Amenthe insatiable appetite to trade people in is unreal, we just lost a granny by 4 points! These blokes couldn’t get a game in teams either not far off us or bottom 8.

I’m not sure you’re looking at the whole picture.

These are delisted players. They are free agents, so we don’t need to trade for them.

We currently have two empty senior list spots due to the retirements of Dan Rich and Marcus Adams.

Tom Fullerton has also asked to be traded to Melbourne, so we will have a third senior list spot to fill.

Rhys Mathieson is also looking around for opportunities elsewhere. He is also at risk of being delisted.

Our first draft pick will be in the very late 20’s by the time all the free agent compensation picks are handed out.

Then it will push in to the mid 30’s by the time father son and academy kids are bid on and matched.

And the club has been vocal about strengthening our draft hand for next year. Apart from receiving a future (probably late) pick for Tom Fullerton, the main way for us to improve our draft hand next year is to trade this years picks in to next year.


So with the potential of only having one or two late picks in this years draft, some of us are looking at the delisted free agent list to see if there are any players that might improve the depth of our squad.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Pron

Gillett is a 200cm+ ruck forward. Will likely be a long term project.

Sam Marshall looks like a good balanced mid who can also play wing.

Marshall probably is bid on first, but Gillett might be more of a need, long term.

Problem with our academy talls, the strike rate of them working out is low. Look at the history. Other than Andrews and Hipwood it has been a grim list. Even players that were drafted by other clubs i.e Chol whom isn't a world beater

 

[Viceregal]

The balance between drafting and trading is a tricky one for list managers I would imagine.

It is funny how I think of drafting and trading at this time of year.

Drafting seems like getting a Christmas present and unwrapping it to see what you have. Last year we got a PS5 for Christmas! Thanks Santa! Next year, a new iPhone! And maybe some cool accessories.

Trading seems like getting a new power tool or lawn mower. It is different to what you had but you kind of already know what it will do. Last year we got a top of the line one.

This year there will be minimal presents under the tree but maybe something nice and practical which we come to appreciate more as time goes on. Hopefully not socks from grandma, something a bit better.

And we will get a used power tool through trade which just needs a bit of time and care and will then be pretty serviceable hopefully.

A friend of mine once told me how when he was a kid he used to look forward to xmas and all the toys and games he would get. One year the previously unthinkable happened and he got socks and jocks instead of toys and games. He knew he was getting old when he realised that he was looking forward to getting socks and jocks for the forthcoming xmas!

 

[Section 5]

Lions OOC players
Zorko gets another year if he accepts terms.
Blake Coleman ?? do we keep Kiddy happy.
I think if Fullarton can't find a home, we give him another year as insurance.
Mathieson rookie: Maybe the same but i think we might delist him this time.
Carter Michael rookie: One game R17 in 2022. Pretty much been injured since then. Hard to tell what the club thinks.
The two Cat (b) rookies
Brain showed enough. Not so sure about McDowell-White although he showed glimpses of his potential.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Lions OOC players
Zorko gets another year if he accepts terms.
Blake Coleman ?? do we keep Kiddy happy.
I think if Fullarton can't find a home, we give him another year as insurance.
Mathieson rookie: Maybe the same but i think we might delist him this time.
Carter Michael rookie: One game R17 in 2022. Pretty much been injured since then. Hard to tell what the club thinks.
The two Cat (b) rookies
Brain showed enough. Not so sure about McDowell-White although he showed glimpses of his potential.

Have a feeling that if Blake Coleman does get delisted, Collingwood might be interested in him as a DFA.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Have a feeling that if Blake Coleman does get delisted, Collingwood might be interested in him as a DFA.

I’m not sure they’d be interested now that Bobby Hill has worked out for them

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Billings, Hately, Bonner, scream list cloggers to me. We don't have to pick up a delistee you know?

Billings isn't a delistee.

 

[StevoJenkins]

One thing the Bulldogs recruitment team has always done well is recruiting mature aged players from the lower leagues.

Will be interesting to see if the list management team gets forced to have a better look at some of these players in the coming years with the concessions Tassie will get in multiple drafts.