List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management Thread

[King Corey]

Edit: will update if ppl happy for this to sticky

Ok starting the hit list of names mentioned in any rumour as linked to us for 2023 trade period.

• Mac Andrew
• Hunter Clark
• Zac Fisher
• Sam Flanders
• Mitch Georgiades
• Liam Henry
• Dougal Howard
• Lewis Melican
• Jack Silvagni
• Dylan Stephens
• Adam Tomlinson

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Isn’t he an inside mid

He looks like he gets involved in enough link up plays to be an effective wingman that can also rotate through the middle. Apparently has a decent tank on him as well which helps.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Sausage Gossage reckoned you wouldn't sell the farm for Henry because he's been inconsistent but had a better year this year.
He reckoned 2nd rounder level. Maybe RHJ part of the trade perhaps? Did we plan this all along?

 

[speedy]

Like this commitment to mediocrity.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

I'd rather just draft McKercher. Will be a better wingman than Henry will ever be.

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't all his footy been played as a centre bounce mid? I understand he is an accumulator with pace and a good tank. A lot of posters saying he feels a need as a wing or HBF but isn't he unproven in these positions?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't all his footy been played as a centre bounce mid? I understand he is an accumulator with pace and a good tank. A lot of posters saying he feels a need as a wing or HBF but isn't he unproven in these positions?

Already answered this question a few posts back i feel.

In addition i would also say that as an inside mid, i don't think his in close disposals are all that clean most of the time. LDU and Wardlaw are far better in that regard but when he has a bit more time and space he uses the ball much better.

I'm only going on videos i've watched though

 

[krakouers]

Fun fact Tarryn has an * tattoo on him from when he was younger..

Where’s my cheese grater?

Surely that's a North Launceston Bombers tattoo, not Essendon.

Better remove it just in case

 

[DesertRoo]

So just caught up
We have Nat draft picks

1. 2 for finishing 17th
2. 3 for Magoo PP
3. 4 Draft assistance
4. 5 Part of TT trade involving a multitude of clubs
5. 16 Poort pick.


So we take Curtin, Mckercher, O'sullivan, Watson and Sanders & Henry as other part of TT deal.

We win the drafts again.

Hahaha could you imagine the melts

 

[Makeshift Park]

I think you need to factor how much players are getting the contested ball, harder to hit targets when you are under the pump.

For example, Simpkin has a 42.5% rate, Henry has 25% rate, so 3/4 of his possessions are uncontested so he should be under less pressure.

Another is distance and meters gained, easier to hit kicks sideways and easier to hit short kicks, harder to hit long kicks.

It isn't precise, but I like to divide meters gained by kicks to gauge how long they go, unless an extreme handballer like cunners, I would imagine handballs provide a negligible amount of distance.

Henry would average 25.3m per kick, Simpkin 27.6
Dangerfield has a 51.7% contested possession rate and a 34.2m per kick, you would want to be a lot more accurate than someone who is constantly under the pump and kicking longer.

Yeah, good points.

It'd be nice if there was some easy way the average Joe could compare say Dangerfield's stats as a wingman against say Henry. Like discount all sequences that start with Dangerfield attending a centre bounce or something. But I guess Champion Data gotta earn money somehow.

More generally, I think its hard for the average punter to quantify how successful wingmen are at doing their jobs. There are no metrics for holding structure, aside from eyeball tests and overall team performance, and afaik no metric that indicates how often Henry shanks it as a result of receiving a handball out of a contest and sprinting flat chat for 50 metres.

 

[R00StaR]

Hahaha could you imagine the melts

Id be one of them. Losing McKay and Thomas, two key players in our team who are the exact age bracket we lack. Next will be LDU out the door looking for a team that'll be competitive in his lifetime, as we'll be a team of 20 year olds with a sprinkling of older hacks.

 

[Billy Not Really]

Losing McKay is more than acceptable.

Losing Thomas puts your rebuild backwards by a number of years while your replacement draftee comes about which is a speculative wager anyway while if he just gets his shit together for 1 season Tarryn can be the best in the comp, and he was top 10 just from 6 games.

He can run out and posture a new deal next year all he likes, I'd watch him closely on performance in that year and then if he re-signs watch for any dropoff, then I'd be regretting a potential trade we missed in favor of keeping him. But until then he's contracted, and unless the deal is godfather tier I wouldn't let one of the players we've been building for years beyond his draft year to some other club who didn't put in any of the work this club has put into building him into the kind of player he is.

It's a shame that his attitude ****ing stinks from this year, and I'll believe he's a changed man if he returns the faith and signs an extension and doesn't drop off in performance once the ink is dry.

 

[danj]

The broad consensus is that we finish in the bottom four next year.
F2 is nearly perfect for Henry, I reckon.

Who is ‘broad consensus’? We could have easily won 5 more of the close games this season which would have put us bottom 7, next year given a full preseason, full time expert coaching and a proper game plan IMO we’ll realistically be 10-7

 

[Makeshift Park]

Who is ‘broad consensus’? We could have easily won 5 more of the close games this Sean which would have put us bottom 7, next year given a full preseason, full time expert coaching and a proper game plan IMO we’ll realistically be 10-7

Yes but let's refrain from telling Freo supporters they can only expect pick ~28 for Henry with our F2, deal?

 

[Sheezuz Christ]

Just seen the list of players we've been potentially linked with. Wondering what the Mac Andrews link is? Must have missed it, is anyone able to fill me in?

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Just seen the list of players we've been potentially linked with. Wondering what the Mac Andrews link is? Must have missed it, is anyone able to fill me in?

A tenuous one.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Just seen the list of players we've been potentially linked with. Wondering what the Mac Andrews link is? Must have missed it, is anyone able to fill me in?

It’s a non link, probably shouldn’t have been there. I think a poster once said they’d like him.

 

[Samsquanch]

Like this commitment to mediocrity.

Mediocrity... Essendon signing Parish or Parish signing for Essendon?

Either way works I spose.

 

[r_boy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't all his footy been played as a centre bounce mid? I understand he is an accumulator with pace and a good tank. A lot of posters saying he feels a need as a wing or HBF but isn't he unproven in these positions?

No more unproven than Nick Daicos in his draft year

 

[The Dingrel]

Morris says we're interested in Liam Henry and Freo expect a high teens pick for him. That's way overs for him.

Yeah that just sounds like the f*n pr1ck in the gladdy park milk bar, when I was 4 yo and went in with a 5er and asked if I had enough for 2 redskins and a mars bar......"yes that's enough".......no change. (80's prices,,,40+ years on I bet he still remembers an encounter with the old boy a few minutes later).

iIn other words Freo sees what's in our hand and says yeah that's the price.

 

[glenn2479]

17 other clubs supporters just breathed a sigh of relief.

 

[The Dingrel]

So who are we walking to the PSD this time?

Henry?

 

[Tas]

Who is ‘broad consensus’? We could have easily won 5 more of the close games this season which would have put us bottom 7, next year given a full preseason, full time expert coaching and a proper game plan IMO we’ll realistically be 10-7

North's average losing margin: 35.1
Essendon's average losing margin: 38.2

We won more quarters this year than last and significantly reduced the margins we lost by, I think generally been more competitive. A handful of games got away from us.

I think once we address the way we possess and move the ball things will improve in a big way. We just get and dump it long waaay too much and it causes not enough inside 50s and a lot of turnovers and mids who neither kick a lot of goals or assist in kicking goals.

Sheezel averaged more goal assists coming off half back than the majority of our midfielders. He runs and carries and tries really hard to hit a team mate instead of just blaze long to nobody in particular. If we do it as a collective we will retain the ball for far longer periods, turn it over a lot less, and score a lot more. A lot of these 5 goals or less losses will turn into wins... IF and WHEN that happens.

Thomas kicked the most goals out of our midfield group at 11 and he played 12 games of footy.

Inside 50s/Assists
Scott 81/11 (7.36)
LDU 69/12 (5.75)
Simpkin 69/5 (13.8)
Shiels 50/4 (12.5)
Thomas 50/9 (5.56)
Tucker 46/7 (6.57)
Phillips 44/9 (4.89)
Taylor 35/4 (8.75)
Howe 24/1 (24)
Cunnington 21/4 (5.25)
Greenwood 16/4 (4.00)
Wardlaw 10/2 (5.00)
Mahony 3/0 (Div/0)

Sheezel 67/11 (6.09)

Sam Gibson, the infamous butcherer of the ball forward (who is harshly remembered imo) over his career averaged 7.17 inside 50s per goal and in his last season with us when he went much shorter only needed 4 I50s per goal and that year was his highest career contribution with 12.

It isn't a definitive stat because you can hit someone in the goal square and they might miss, doesn't make you a bad kick, but outside some weird anomaly, we need to both up the number of I50s and get much lower Inside 50s to goal ratios and this tends to happen when you hit targets in the corridor or other higher probability areas to shoot for goal.

Ideally, we need to get those down to about 5 or under, more importantly, those who aren't good at hitting targets shouldn't be blazing long into the forward 50.

Our midfield is somewhat competitive atm but it needs to be reshaped to be elite. We have to retain Thomas or replace him with a similarly talented offensive midfielder. If we can get Reid and Sanders into this midfield group and have Wardlaw for a full season next year then things will get interesting. I don't think being young will be a hindrance. We looked better this year the more senior people were missing from the midfield group.

 

[danj]

North's average losing margin: 35.1
Essendon's average losing margin: 38.2

We won more quarters this year than last and significantly reduced the margins we lost by, I think generally been more competitive. A handful of games got away from us.

I think once we address the way we possess and move the ball things will improve in a big way. We just get and dump it long waaay too much and it causes not enough inside 50s and a lot of turnovers and mids who neither kick a lot of goals or assist in kicking goals.

Sheezel averaged more goal assists coming off half back than the majority of our midfielders. He runs and carries and tries really hard to hit a team mate instead of just blaze long to nobody in particular. If we do it as a collective we will retain the ball for far longer periods, turn it over a lot less, and score a lot more. A lot of these 5 goals or less losses will turn into wins... IF and WHEN that happens.

Thomas kicked the most goals out of our midfield group at 11 and he played 12 games of footy.

Inside 50s/Assists
Scott 81/11 (7.36)
LDU 69/12 (5.75)
Simpkin 69/5 (13.8)
Shiels 50/4 (12.5)
Thomas 50/9 (5.56)
Tucker 46/7 (6.57)
Phillips 44/9 (4.89)
Taylor 35/4 (8.75)
Howe 24/1 (24)
Cunnington 21/4 (5.25)
Greenwood 16/4 (4.00)
Wardlaw 10/2 (5.00)
Mahony 3/0 (Div/0)

Sheezel 67/11 (6.09)

Sam Gibson, the infamous butcherer of the ball forward (who is harshly remembered imo) over his career averaged 7.17 inside 50s per goal and in his last season with us when he went much shorter only needed 4 I50s per goal and that year was his highest career contribution with 12.

It isn't a definitive stat because you can hit someone in the goal square and they might miss, doesn't make you a bad kick, but outside some weird anomaly, we need to both up the number of I50s and get much lower Inside 50s to goal ratios and this tends to happen when you hit targets in the corridor or other higher probability areas to shoot for goal.

Ideally, we need to get those down to about 5 or under, more importantly, those who aren't good at hitting targets shouldn't be blazing long into the forward 50.

Our midfield is somewhat competitive atm but it needs to be reshaped to be elite. We have to retain Thomas or replace him with a similarly talented offensive midfielder. If we can get Reid and Sanders into this midfield group and have Wardlaw for a full season next year then things will get interesting. I don't think being young will be a hindrance. We looked better this year the more senior people were missing from the midfield group.

I watched the replay last night and the difference btw long bombs into the f50 from most of our previous games with Ziebs and LMac doing the kicking was astonishing. Sheezel and the mids kept their eyes down and kicked mostly shorter more accurate kicks into our f50 resulting in way more scoring shots. It would be interesting to know how many disposals per goal in the last match compared to our season average I suspect it will be a better stat that will be more indicative of how we will go next season

 

[Twangler]

North's average losing margin: 35.1
Essendon's average losing margin: 38.2

We won more quarters this year than last and significantly reduced the margins we lost by, I think generally been more competitive. A handful of games got away from us.

I think once we address the way we possess and move the ball things will improve in a big way. We just get and dump it long waaay too much and it causes not enough inside 50s and a lot of turnovers and mids who neither kick a lot of goals or assist in kicking goals.

Sheezel averaged more goal assists coming off half back than the majority of our midfielders. He runs and carries and tries really hard to hit a team mate instead of just blaze long to nobody in particular. If we do it as a collective we will retain the ball for far longer periods, turn it over a lot less, and score a lot more. A lot of these 5 goals or less losses will turn into wins... IF and WHEN that happens.

Thomas kicked the most goals out of our midfield group at 11 and he played 12 games of footy.

Inside 50s/Assists
Scott 81/11 (7.36)
LDU 69/12 (5.75)
Simpkin 69/5 (13.8)
Shiels 50/4 (12.5)
Thomas 50/9 (5.56)
Tucker 46/7 (6.57)
Phillips 44/9 (4.89)
Taylor 35/4 (8.75)
Howe 24/1 (24)
Cunnington 21/4 (5.25)
Greenwood 16/4 (4.00)
Wardlaw 10/2 (5.00)
Mahony 3/0 (Div/0)

Sheezel 67/11 (6.09)

Sam Gibson, the infamous butcherer of the ball forward (who is harshly remembered imo) over his career averaged 7.17 inside 50s per goal and in his last season with us when he went much shorter only needed 4 I50s per goal and that year was his highest career contribution with 12.

It isn't a definitive stat because you can hit someone in the goal square and they might miss, doesn't make you a bad kick, but outside some weird anomaly, we need to both up the number of I50s and get much lower Inside 50s to goal ratios and this tends to happen when you hit targets in the corridor or other higher probability areas to shoot for goal.

Ideally, we need to get those down to about 5 or under, more importantly, those who aren't good at hitting targets shouldn't be blazing long into the forward 50.

Our midfield is somewhat competitive atm but it needs to be reshaped to be elite. We have to retain Thomas or replace him with a similarly talented offensive midfielder. If we can get Reid and Sanders into this midfield group and have Wardlaw for a full season next year then things will get interesting. I don't think being young will be a hindrance. We looked better this year the more senior people were missing from the midfield group.

Interesting stats, it would be good to see the breakdown by score assist as opposed to goal assists though given sample I think it’s illustrative enough.
It also reaffirms that Simpkin’s kicking and/or decision making is a concern.

 

[Themanbun]

I watched the replay last night and the difference btw long bombs into the f50 from most of our previous games with Ziebs and LMac doing the kicking was astonishing. Sheezel and the mids kept their eyes down and kicked mostly shorter more accurate kicks into our f50 resulting in way more scoring shots. It would be interesting to know how many disposals per goal in the last match compared to our season average I suspect it will be a better stat that will be more indicative of how we will go next season

Ziebell an LMac accounted for less than 3 inside 50s per game combined. Love LDU but he's one of our biggest long bomb offenders.

 

[New_Roo]

Henry?

We won't be taking Henry to the psd... first it has to be us he nominates, Freo will want high teens which is fair enough as has invested a lot in him and was a top ten... that will be their starting pt and reckon we will be happy with more mid to late 2nd rd, valuations won't be that far apart


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com