Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[hfc70]

HFC trade Pick #3 to GCS

GCS trade pick #4 + Mabior Chol to HFC

GCS trade pick 3 + Sharpe + Hollands + Graham to WCE

WCE trade Pick #1 + #54 to GCS

Hawks get KPF whilst dropping only 1 spot.

WCE get 3 x best 22 players and still a high draft pick

GCS get Harley Reid

Hawks get KPF …….lmfao…..no thanks

 

[The Gotham Penguin]

Hawks get KPF …….lmfao…..no thanks

I posted earlier about Chols deficiencies. If SM can work them out of Chols game - result.

Hawks are going into 2024 with Lewis Ryan and DGB (maybe Kosi too). Greene gets cut surely.

Hawks are 1 key forward injury away from struggling to score - so unless I missed it (apologies if so) - are there any other forwards going who kicked 44 goals in a season (2022)

The answer would be no.

A ready made key forward who can pinch hit in the ruck - 100 kg and 200cms - with 78 goals in 61 games and is only 26.

Who else is there?

 

[TylerDurden]

I posted earlier about Chols deficiencies. If SM can work them out of Chols game - result.

Hawks are going into 2024 with Lewis Ryan and DGB (maybe Kosi too). Greene gets cut surely.

Hawks are 1 key forward injury away from struggling to score - so unless I missed it (apologies if so) - are there any other forwards going who kicked 44 goals in a season (2022)

The answer would be no.

A ready made key forward who can pinch hit in the ruck - 100 kg and 200cms - with 78 goals in 61 games and is only 26.

Who else is there?

Chol? No thx.

 

[GinniAndTonic]

HFC trade Pick #3 to GCS

GCS trade pick #4 + Mabior Chol to HFC

GCS trade pick 3 + Sharpe + Hollands + Graham to WCE

WCE trade Pick #1 + #54 to GCS

Hawks get KPF whilst dropping only 1 spot.

WCE get 3 x best 22 players and still a high draft pick

GCS get Harley Reid

No way Chol and pick 4 gets you pick 3 that’s the most laughable trade I’ve seen yet.

 

[The Gotham Penguin]

No way Chol and pick 4 gets you pick 3 that’s the most laughable trade I’ve seen yet.

Why?
It wouldn't affect the kid you want being drafted at #3 - you pick him at #4.

#3 goes to WCE - and they still probably get Curtin.

Swapping 3 + 4 shouldn't change anything as far as Hawthorn are concerned. And you get a forward.

No drama - it's the hypothetical thread for a reason!

 

[Sixpence]

Sam Mitchell and Mark Mackenzie threw huge dollars at Esava goddamn Ratagulea.

Did they? That massive offer reported was clearly bullshit, we don't really know what was offered.

 

[burner1]

If this is what transpires I worry for our Club.
Many will say we are still on track. How?
We might Draft a KP, perhaps even two if we are lucky. But have we addressed the real problem. As I have said before, just relying on the Draft will slow down the rebuild in my view.

We’ve started to hit the problem that other rebuilding clubs have faced. You draft for talent - which rightly or wrongly generally means mids (Arguably we have also had a recent bias towards mids + gone a little safe)

But then you have a massive kpp hole. Historically you could trade for them but kpp market is so tight / expensive at present that it’s really hard - so then just hoping strike with a late pick (eg Lewis, larkey etc)

Our issue has been compounded by development of our core 4 mids (Jai, day, Nash, worpel) this year which has meant less need for mids. And we were set on weddle (a flanker) which used 3 picks reducing our flexibility.

We don’t have much option other than to keep hitting the draft (albeit likely need to focus on kpp after our first pick) and swinging at available FAs/trades every year and hope it comes together with a bit of luck (which is always needed). But realistically we have a way to go in the rebuild so there’s time to work things out.

 

[matey]

Harry is a great player and a Coleman medallist, but also one of the dumbest footballers in the competition.

And wears yellow rubber duckie jocks!

 

[Rocket72]

That's not entirely correct. There could be an agreement that Norf won't take Curtain if we get them band 1 compo for McKay.

Good point, not sure that could be guaranteed though.

 

[Nugett]

I posted earlier about Chols deficiencies. If SM can work them out of Chols game - result.

Hawks are going into 2024 with Lewis Ryan and DGB (maybe Kosi too). Greene gets cut surely.

Hawks are 1 key forward injury away from struggling to score - so unless I missed it (apologies if so) - are there any other forwards going who kicked 44 goals in a season (2022)

The answer would be no.

A ready made key forward who can pinch hit in the ruck - 100 kg and 200cms - with 78 goals in 61 games and is only 26.

Who else is there?

Drop Chol out of the trade, Hawks give pick 3 and their future first for pick 4 and Ben King

 

[Rocket72]

There is a reason why Jeka is in the VFL side.
The Club loved the bloke. I loved the bloke. Jeka has a big mirror to look into.

I respectfully disagree, it's not anywhere near that simple. He has had an injury interupted preseason and playing year. Has shown that his best is much better than VFL and probably good enough for AFL. Lacks concentration, is still learning when to engage in the contest and when to stay outside and I believe has not had the same clear role for more than a few weeks at a time this year. Definitely worth another season IMHO given there are limited trade options right now.

 

[Rocket72]

No one is doubting that Jeka can play. He has the skills, size and athleticism.

The biggest question and the reason why he is toiling away in the magoos is the club isn't sure that Jeka has the competitive drive and desire to want to play AFL footy.

It's all between the ears for Jeka. Always has been. Same reason he was seen by many as a possible top 10 selection in his bottom age year before he dramatically slid to a rookie pick.

What concerns me is nothing has changed in the entire time he has been on the list.

To get through an AFL preseason is nontrivial. I guess you mean that he doesn't have that 'make it at all cost' mentality. It's nice when players have that, but plenty still make it without being prepared to die for the cause. Chris Mew was a good example. Not comparing him to Jeka as a footballer, just attitude. I reckon we look at players like Jeka, who are different, and because they don't fit a template or ideal, we make negative assessments.

 

[Slysh]

Why?
It wouldn't affect the kid you want being drafted at #3 - you pick him at #4.

#3 goes to WCE - and they still probably get Curtin.

Swapping 3 + 4 shouldn't change anything as far as Hawthorn are concerned. And you get a forward.

No drama - it's the hypothetical thread for a reason!

Personally just don’t really want Chol, if we were to trade for him I hope we would just do it using a late pick instead of trading down. Moving up inside the top 5 requires a lot of currency, a lot more than Chol has.

 

[VandoHawk]

HFC trade Pick #3 to GCS

GCS trade pick #4 + Mabior Chol to HFC

GCS trade pick 3 + Sharpe + Hollands + Graham to WCE

WCE trade Pick #1 + #54 to GCS

Hawks get KPF whilst dropping only 1 spot.

WCE get 3 x best 22 players and still a high draft pick

GCS get Harley Reid

The thought process is OK but we would never do this.
You want Chol off your books like Wright a while back. We don't need to downgrade our first pick if a future fourth gets it done.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Why?
It wouldn't affect the kid you want being drafted at #3 - you pick him at #4.

#3 goes to WCE - and they still probably get Curtin.

Swapping 3 + 4 shouldn't change anything as far as Hawthorn are concerned. And you get a forward.

No drama - it's the hypothetical thread for a reason!

Chol is not worth the risk we run of losing the player we want!

 

[mac11]

Did any of those players re-sign this year?

FMD.

Dunno? Did they? Just had a quick look at the contracts thread which listed them.

Will they be offered a new contract - of course (assuming they haven’t already)!

 

[Topiary]

I think you’re over playing the doom and gloom lately. We’re in the early stages of the rebuild, yes we’ve shown plenty of potential and it would be nice to pick up McKay but it’s really not the end of the world if we miss. He’s not THAT good.

The level of FA or players looking to move this year isn’t strong and we’re competing with teams who are playing finals for those signatures. If we’re in this scenario at the same time next year then I would agree with you that it’s concerning.

Ratugolea and McKay would improve us structurally but that isn’t necessarily taking us to a flag either. We need to nail that draft this year again, we need that x factor player…. Wether it’s Duursma, Watson or even Reid. We’ve got Henry on the hook and we are still a chance for McKay.

Still plenty of things to play out
Deep breathes.

Of course.
All I am advocating is doing both.

 

[perrdan86]

To get through an AFL preseason is nontrivial. I guess you mean that he doesn't have that 'make it at all cost' mentality. It's nice when players have that, but plenty still make it without being prepared to die for the cause. Chris Mew was a good example. Not comparing him to Jeka as a footballer, just attitude. I reckon we look at players like Jeka, who are different, and because they don't fit a template or ideal, we make negative assessments.

A lot of that on these forums.

 

[NICE1]

How did the alternative go? The list management decisions that resulted in all the trades over the last 6 years were a disaster. I know everyone gets a hit of dopamine from reading the latest trade rumours, but let’s not kid ourselves our trading in the finals years of Clarko was diabolical.

Let’s stay on track and keep building through the draft.

I wouldn't want Clarko near any list management decisions based on what transpired through those years (if it was indeed his doing). Refusing to rebuild properly through the draft was painful to watch, and it ultimately left Mitchell with one of the worst AFL lists in the comp.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yep, let's address those needs,--- No, not like that!

Isn’t this always the way.

‘Hey we need another key defender and this guy costs us no draft picks’

‘Is he as good as Brian Lake?’

‘Well no, but…’

‘NOT INTERESTED!!!’.

 

[HedgeFund]

To get through an AFL preseason is nontrivial. I guess you mean that he doesn't have that 'make it at all cost' mentality. It's nice when players have that, but plenty still make it without being prepared to die for the cause. Chris Mew was a good example. Not comparing him to Jeka as a footballer, just attitude. I reckon we look at players like Jeka, who are different, and because they don't fit a template or ideal, we make negative assessments.

By “we” you must also mean the HFC match committee - who despite his obvious talent by foot - have kept selecting him at Box Hill for the vast majority of his time at Hawthorn.

This is also despite us having glaring weaknesses in the KPP department.

There’s also been no announcement of a new contract for him.

There’s a difference between “win at all costs” and “just do what the coaches want you to do to get selected in the seniors”

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Did anyone else see the smug face on Horse when asked in the post match presser if McKay will now nominate the Swans given they are out of the finals?

fwiw, I prefer the long face to the smug face when it comes to Longmire.

As confident as McKay going to $wans as I was of Brockman going home earlier in the year. Exactly what they need and AFL will do what ever it takes to help them make this happen - you can bookmark it

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

Great work from Butler. Set that up

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I’ve banged this drum a few times last off season but Tyler Keitel has had another big season in the WAFL as the leading goal kicker again. Again, I’m sure there’s a good reason he’s never gotten to the AFL but can any WA based Hawks answer why he wouldn’t be a possible option as a mature age rookie? Particularly if Kosi moves elsewhere.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

To get through an AFL preseason is nontrivial. I guess you mean that he doesn't have that 'make it at all cost' mentality. It's nice when players have that, but plenty still make it without being prepared to die for the cause. Chris Mew was a good example. Not comparing him to Jeka as a footballer, just attitude. I reckon we look at players like Jeka, who are different, and because they don't fit a template or ideal, we make negative assessments.

Agree 100%

Competitiveness is an attribute just like height, speed, kicking, etc.

To expect every player on the list to have the competitive spirit of say Hardwick would be like expecting every player to be as tall as Reeves or as quick as CJ. Sure it would be nice but its not a realistic expectation.

You need to weigh up all their attributes equally to determine their net worth.

Reckon Scrimmers copped a bit of this as well this year. Yes he's probably not as fierce a competitive beast as some (although I'd argue that's overblown assessment) but he has other excellent attributes and when he isn't playing we are a worse team.