List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[austinnn]

Yeah when you see players with elite skills it stands out, and you’re right, if you have that in your side you can cut through teams with less effort

We need more of that. No doubt about it

A year or so ago, I likened Saints Footy to someone throwing a hundred hammers at a nail to knock it in and I have noticed that frustrating labour intensive fumble ball return in recent weeks, a mixture of fatigue from the blistering pace of the first 4 rounds and tighter pressure from more savvy and prepared teams.

Ross isn't that interested in building a skillful team of technicians, he's rather everyone played their part and created chaos then pick the oppo apart. I'd like to see us put our foot on the throat of the weaker teams and sharpen up, starting with the Hapless Hawks

 

[ScrappyDo]

Heath may be a bit further along in his development but I doubt he will be ready to step up for another year or two. I dont know what RTB wants as far as playing 2 ruckman are concerned, but we definitely need another viable option in case Marshall has injuries. It's obvious where Campbell stands in the pecking order, he wasnt played even when we tried Sharman as a tall forward.

In an ideal world Hayes is fit and playing the 2nd ruck role which he did so well early last year, but that might not happen until next year also. In the interim it looks like Caminiti & Owens are going to have to carry the load. Although I would still like to see the club give Heath a game late in the season to give him a taste of what's required.

I don't view Hayes or Hammer as a 2nd ruck. I'm talking genuine ruckmen. Your point is valid though, we have no real backup if Marshall goes down, as such theres Matt Flynn on the FA market and although hes average in all stats he's a step up on Campbell.
Since Marshall has a few good years left l think it's smarter to wait and see if we need to spend big on another mature ruck. It's capital spent better elsewhere ATM.

 

[bergholt]

I don't view Hayes or Hammer as a 2nd ruck. I'm talking genuine ruckmen. Your point is valid though, we have no real backup if Marshall goes down, as such theres Matt Flynn on the FA market and although hes average in all stats he's a step up on Campbell.
Since Marshall has a few good years left l think it's smarter to wait and see if we need to spend big on another mature ruck. It's capital spent better elsewhere ATM.

I just don't know why Flynn would choose us given that he's clearly going to be number 2 behind Marshall. Surely he'd want to be first choice.

 

[AirWinmar]

Yeah when you see players with elite skills it stands out, and you’re right, if you have that in your side you can cut through teams with less effort

We need more of that. No doubt about it

Theres skill, composure and decision making. We have a couple of players now whose skills aren't consistent like Byrnes, Crouch, but I'd say our main issue is composure and decision making.

Sincs looks amazing because he is elite at all 3

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah when you see players with elite skills it stands out, and you’re right, if you have that in your side you can cut through teams with less effort

We need more of that. No doubt about it

Everyone wants elite skills but it's not as simple as picking guys who win the kicking accuracy at the combine. The guys that can kick or hand pass under pressure are the ones you want. Phillipou has that quick mind that has the ball moving before it is even processed. Owens is the king of that. He's kicked goals that seemed to be on his boot before it even got to his hand.

I remember Jade Gresham had some kind of near perfect kicking record at the combine but get him in a game and his kicks go all over the place when he's pressured. I think we took Nas because of his elite kicking but again, running out of defence and distributing he looks beautiful. When he gets pressured he still sprays them and has had quite a few clangers.

You also have to have players who can contest in tight, bulk accumulators, runners who can spread, defensive minded two way players, solid marks, team players etc. Recruiting isn't an easy gig. It's like alchemy.

 

[gringo2011]

With the one player with the strength to make the game stop for a moment and kick a goal from any position along the 50. Give us a peak Dusty and geez we'd go close this year given how even it is.

I reckon Geelong getting Tyson Stengle won them a premiership last year even more than Jeremy Cameron. Just that ability to turn games with his elite goal kicking from different ranges. He turned so many games last year including finals.

Collingwood have quite a few of those reliable goal kickers. Guys like Jamie Elliottt and Mihocek seem to have that ability to make the most of any opportunity and rarely miss.

Our attack looks good on paper but haven't had it all in one place at the same time. King, Membrey, Caminiti, Owens, Phillipou, Butler, Snags and Gresham. Billings, Keeler, Peris and Hayes in reserve looks like it could rip a few sides open.

It will be interesting to see how they settle in with more games together.

 

[The Punter]

We've drafted plenty of skillful players over the years - read their draft scouting reports.

It's that the players never seem to maintain that skill.

 

[hayes]

The big question for the club at seasons end is assessing how close they think we are to being serious contenders? Obviously that will dictate whether we go back to the draft or trade out our early picks. Perhaps SOS & Gubby can keep finding bargains like Stocker & Caminiti, but its no secret we need to add to our midfilder talent.

I have said it before that I would prefer we go to the draft, but perhaps the club believe they have the right players already on the list. With some development and growth into Clark, Gresham, Owens, Phillipou, Windhager, Byrnes, NMW, Stocker and Hotton. If thats the case they might look to attempt to trade in a more senior midfielder, either way I believe we will still need to get more midfield talent through the door.

We do need another ruckman also, but I still have faith Max Heath will become a very good AFL player. Again if we can attract TDK without giving up the world he would be a good fit. If not TDK I thought Briggs was good for GWS last weekend and he will be behind Preuss for sometime. It is going to be a balancing act, but hopefully the club continues to pull the right strings.

Forward - I think we can get enough goals out of King, Higgins, Gresham, Butler and hopefully Caminiti.

Midfield - Two A graders short IMO. I’m confident in Owens/Phillipou/Windy but I’ve been confident in young players before and either way they’re going to take time that we don’t really have when a lot of our best players are 27+.

Back - A number 1 key defender short. Dougal can’t be the #1 man.

Proven midfielder and key back is what I’d be looking for.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I just don't know why Flynn would choose us given that he's clearly going to be number 2 behind Marshall. Surely he'd want to be first choice.

I think he's likely to be pragmatic and understand he's number 3 in line at GWS so number 2 is progress.
Also the reality that he just isn't good enough to demand a 1st ruck position, just like TC and so many others.
In his pool even a lowish AFL salary is better than the alternative.

 

[gringo2011]

Forward - I think we can get enough goals out of King, Higgins, Gresham, Butler and hopefully Caminiti.

Midfield - Two A graders short IMO. I’m confident in Owens/Phillipou/Windy but I’ve been confident in young players before and either way they’re going to take time that we don’t really have when a lot of our best players are 27+.

Back - A number 1 key defender short. Dougal can’t be the #1 man.

Proven midfielder and key back is what I’d be looking for.

I don't even think it's two A graders in the mids. One elite would help and it would push Ross out to depth and then have a couple of developing kids rolling through. some very ordinary midfields have won flags.

I'd love to recruit another running HB that frees Sinclair into the middle. You get your close to elite player on ball but don't lose drive off HBF.

The defence looked amazing early when we were defending the field better. We need others to tighten up further up the field. Expose any defence in today's footy and you are up against it. Howard would need to be replaced with an upgrade and I'm not sure where you get one. McKay is so injury prone and would cost a heap of cap space. That's if North don't match as well and send it to a trade.

 

[parkeysaintertheman]

Do we need a ruck next year?

Hayes, Campbell, Heath, Caminiti, Owens can play in there next year.

Unless we get TDK (HUGE chance) then it's not worth picking up a bog average ruck.

 

[hayes]

I don't even think it's two A graders in the mids. One elite would help and it would push Ross out to depth and then have a couple of developing kids rolling through. some very ordinary midfields have won flags.

I'd love to recruit another running HB that frees Sinclair into the middle. You get your close to elite player on ball but don't lose drive off HBF.

The defence looked amazing early when we were defending the field better. We need others to tighten up further up the field. Expose any defence in today's footy and you are up against it. Howard would need to be replaced with an upgrade and I'm not sure where you get one. McKay is so injury prone and would cost a heap of cap space. That's if North don't match as well and send it to a trade.

Either two A graders or one special mid like a Danger/Bont would get us up there I agree.

Not sure if Howard needs to be replaced, I’d be fine with him as the second key defender.

 

[gringo2011]

Either two A graders or one special mid like a Danger/Bont would get us up there I agree.

Not sure if Howard needs to be replaced, I’d be fine with him as the second key defender.

I think it would be Battle or Howard that would have to go out. If it was another Gorilla back it would make us quite tall and lumbering I reckon. Not many sides have multiple 2 meter forwards that need defending one on one.

 

[FootyMaster11]

I think it would be Battle or Howard that would have to go out. If it was another Gorilla back it would make us quite tall and lumbering I reckon. Not many sides have multiple 2 meter forwards that need defending one on one.

Would rather Howard go out imo, Battle is more versatile and doesn't seem to make as many unforced mistakes/turnovers as Howard does. Howard also gives off the vibe that it is never his fault, as after his opposition takes a mark, he constantly seems to turn around and start yelling and pointing.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I don't even think it's two A graders in the mids. One elite would help and it would push Ross out to depth and then have a couple of developing kids rolling through. some very ordinary midfields have won flags.

I'd love to recruit another running HB that frees Sinclair into the middle. You get your close to elite player on ball but don't lose drive off HBF.

The defence looked amazing early when we were defending the field better. We need others to tighten up further up the field. Expose any defence in today's footy and you are up against it. Howard would need to be replaced with an upgrade and I'm not sure where you get one. McKay is so injury prone and would cost a heap of cap space. That's if North don't match as well and send it to a trade.

Wouldn't even consider another HB till Coff and Guss are written off. Maybe Whitfield if he comes with that top 5 pick is the only way.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Do we need a ruck next year?

Hayes, Campbell, Heath, Caminiti, Owens can play in there next year.

Unless we get TDK (HUGE chance) then it's not worth picking up a bog average ruck.

Replacing TC with a younger upgrade is good business.

 

[Klaatu]

According to the Hun, we are looking at Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

is still only 23y & obviously doesn't get on with Voss as has only played 4 senior games since his arrival plus they have so many MF players on there list that even Hewitt or Chera has to play the sub at times.

 

[Joffaboy]

According to Lore's provision spreadsheet above, Richmond are in for a world of pain, probably out of the 8 and spent their dp's on Hopper and Taranto.

First pick is 24 and given away pick 5 to GWS

 

[hayes]

I think it would be Battle or Howard that would have to go out. If it was another Gorilla back it would make us quite tall and lumbering I reckon. Not many sides have multiple 2 meter forwards that need defending one on one.

The other defender doesn’t need to be 200cm or even a star, I’d just be happy if all they did was take the oppositions best forward to free Dougal up a bit. Brisbane found Payne which has allowed Andrews to float and their defense is the best it’s been in years, I’d be happy with something like that.

 

[parkeysaintertheman]

The intrigue continues.

Pinot Noir from Carlton signed for 4 years.

 

[MickG88]

Should we try and grab a young player from Richmond, someone like Tyler Sonsie who isn't best 22 but should be. Easy pitch with the change of head coach.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I don't even think it's two A graders in the mids. One elite would help and it would push Ross out to depth and then have a couple of developing kids rolling through. some very ordinary midfields have won flags.

I'd love to recruit another running HB that frees Sinclair into the middle. You get your close to elite player on ball but don't lose drive off HBF.

The defence looked amazing early when we were defending the field better. We need others to tighten up further up the field. Expose any defence in today's footy and you are up against it. Howard would need to be replaced with an upgrade and I'm not sure where you get one. McKay is so injury prone and would cost a heap of cap space. That's if North don't match as well and send it to a trade.

Im sorry Gringo but I completely disagree on your midfield statements.

You keep repeating about ordinary midfields winning flags, but I havent seen ONE in my 50 years of playing, coaching and watching football, it just hasnt happened. Midfields win flags, other zones compete and do well, but it is the dominant midfields (ruckman & wingman included) that win out on the day. Remember Lockett kicking 7-8 goals in a losing GF or Gary Ablett 9 and Brownless 6 and they still lost, WHY because Hawthorn had a dominant midfield.

 

[Circus]

The other defender doesn’t need to be 200cm or even a star, I’d just be happy if all they did was take the oppositions best forward to free Dougal up a bit. Brisbane found Payne which has allowed Andrews to float and their defense is the best it’s been in years, I’d be happy with something like that.

I understand that but do you really think Howard can play like Andrews? To me Howard's biggest problem is lack of composure. He panics, hence the blaming, finger pointing, etc because he's stuffed it up. He can actually mark the ball and move at speed and kick quite well, but he hardly does those things consistently during a game.

I know his first job is to stop a key forward from marking it, but he does that poorly when one-on-one. His body positioning is out of whack with the direction the ball is coming in, not because he can't see it but because he's made his decision too late and then he freaks out and is very clumsy.

It may be too late in his career but if someone could build his confidence I think he could be a much better player, but he's a real worry when one out as the ball is going deep into the opposition forward 50.

 

[gringo2011]

The other defender doesn’t need to be 200cm or even a star, I’d just be happy if all they did was take the oppositions best forward to free Dougal up a bit. Brisbane found Payne which has allowed Andrews to float and their defense is the best it’s been in years, I’d be happy with something like that.

I reckon that means Battle has to go out then. 4 taller defenders looks a bit imbalanced. A few wanted Payne on here. Looks like an astute call.

 

[hayes]

I understand that but do you really think Howard can play like Andrews? To me Howard's biggest problem is lack of composure. He panics, hence the blaming, finger pointing, etc because he's stuffed it up. He can actually mark the ball and move at speed and kick quite well, but he hardly does those things consistently during a game.

I know his first job is to stop a key forward from marking it, but he does that poorly when one-on-one. His body positioning is out of whack with the direction the ball is coming in, not because he can't see it but because he's made his decision too late and then he freaks out and is very clumsy.

It may be too late in his career but if someone could build his confidence I think he could be a much better player, but he's a real worry when one out as the ball is going deep into the opposition forward 50.

He is definitely not Harris Andrews but his best year with us was 2020 when we had Carlisle in the team as well. The ball should never be in his hands though that’s for sure.