List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[bird_man]

Naz signing a new contract is very, very good news for the club. I think it speaks to the synergy that the youngsters are developing as they face together the injury crisis.

Hopefully the little bump in output that often comes with an announcement means he has a terrific game against the Suns.

Where is this coming from??

 

[sammm]

Where is this coming from??

Johnny numbers

 

[The_Steadier]

Johnny numbers

I'll get excited when it's flamingo official.

Jonnyphonenumbers has a worse strike rate than me with the ladies

 

[gringo2011]

The evidence is my eyeballs. Butler and Higgins won us the game on the weekend on the back of the best game Hill as played at the club and probably since his time at the Hawks.
Howard is our most effective kick going at 88% DE.
If you can't see the influence Paddy Ryder had on the club and the young players, I feel sorry for you.
Crouch cost us nothing and is playing excellent in an under football.
In 2019 we had holes everywhere because of terrible drafting and trading. We had to stabilise the list.
We had to start building through the draft, got King and Bytel in 2018, 5 oven ready AFL players plus Ryan Byrne in 19, Callum Wilkie in the rookie draft.
Then in 20 we got Crouch for free, Higgins a second rounder and Alisson who looks a bust.
So apart from Jones who is an injury bust and Ryder who has retired the other 5 are first 22, Wilkie is an AA, and Byrnes is playing excellent football. Alison is ordinary and Bytel has not cemented his spot.

Maybe we should have picked a kid instead of Stocker and Wood as well.

If we went down your path, we would have been bottom 4 still, terrible crowds, membership going south and Lyon wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole.
A couple of speculated picks would not have put us on the road to success, quite the opposite. And you always talk about our terrible drafting, what make you think we would have got the right kids, not a swag of Alison's?
Gallagher did his job, gave us a base and now SoS and Ross will finish the job.

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Gags must have been great. Pretty much shows what his list management looked like internally.

 

[Joffaboy]

Gags must have been great. Pretty much shows what his list management looked like internally.

Don't know what it looked like internally, just looking at results as they occur.

One thing signed off on in the review what the strategy to go for the mature AFL ready players.

Look we will never agree on this as we see it differently, I think it was a fair enough strategy, you thought we should crash and burn like North did, fair enough.

 

[gringo2011]

All I know is the list looks better than it has in a long time. Someone did something right to get us there.

We haven't done everything wrong. Just saying that if we'd followed a more linear path we would have got to the same point sooner. The list still isn't a premiership list and if we get there it will be the younger guys taking us up another level. We did the build upside down.

The footy department is the best we have ever had now and looks on a much better path all round.

 

[Sully111]

We haven't done everything wrong. Just saying that if we'd followed a more linear path we would have got to the same point sooner. The list still isn't a premiership list and if we get there it will be the younger guys taking us up another level. We did the build upside down.

The footy department is the best we have ever had now and looks on a much better path all round.

I don't see why this list isn't a premiership list

 

[Mowman]

I don't see why this list isn't a premiership list

Lets see how our midfield goes against the Dees midfield
but it looks so much better then i thought it would be before the season started

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon the club was expecting a lot more from the kids they had at that time.
Coff, Clark, Clav, Pato, King, Bytel looked a pretty appealing group when you think Gresh and JB were also young.
There was nothing wrong with the plan except that the kids got utterly smashed with serious injuries and the appeal of Moorabbin to the top end player market was ZERO.
And whilst we can say that building from the draft may have been preferable, we made the mistake of investing in compromised drafts before and the whole covid mess largely screwed 2 of the 3 drafts during the period you're talking about.
The 2019 draft has not been a great year and I'm not sure we'd be better off since we don't know who the club would have picked (McAsey??). We got Byrnes and still hopes for Leo.
2020 was utter dig s**t and we rightly sat out but still have some ongoing prospects.
2021 was absolutely stellar.
2022 is also looking a bumper crop
2018 also worked out ok-ish in hindsight

I honestly think the plan was just to keep the fans engaged whilst they rebuilt the club's revenue base and then football dpt over 4-5 years.
The lack of 30+ year olds on the list and the influx of youth in the last 2 years says to me that the list build is roughly where it was intended to be and the disconnect is the club knew fans wouldn't cop a 5 year timeline and so it wasn't advertised.
Ratts, although they would have hoped for the best, was just the rebound boyfriend after the long sour marriage and before the next marriage. He kept us distracted for a time.

Whilst the club acknowledged they had not managed to execute the list strategy in full, that was restricted to the inability to attract top end FA's and with the understanding that that is a fixed reality they have pivoted somewhat to a focus on bayside bread targets whilst still perusing the previous options.

I know I'm in the minority on this but l just don't see failure. I see evolution, and a disconnect in expectations V's deliverables.

I've said the same thing, we tried to rebuild on the fly while staying competitive. It was going to be hard selling rebuild three to the members.

We are starting to get much more return from our drafting which is a huge step up and had some real luck with cheap ring ins.

Gags is gone because I think we thought we'd be more competitive earlier.

It is what it is and you can't change any of it. At least we are playing good footy and are back looking like we have players with heart. That's good enough for me. Hopefully we keep adding good pieces because without talent even Ross Lyon can only take an average list so far. Perhaps we already have it but just need luck who knows.

Windhager, Owens, Nas, Phillipou and King look like the best talent we've drafted since the Rooey era.

 

[saintbill]

the Hannerbry trade was worse than Hill. i just don't think Ratts knew how to play him.

Hill seemed incredibly unmotivated under Ratten for whatever reason. Was soft as butter.

Looks a completely different unit under Lyon. Back to the player he was before we traded for him.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't see why this list isn't a premiership list

Maybe it is, who knows. Plenty of average sides have won flags in the past but it would require a bit of luck IMO. Probably all depends on how much we can get out of the players from Hunter Clark's generation down.

 

[FQFjt]

I hope we just keep hitting the draft now. As Ross said, we've created an environment which is letting young recruits excel, and we should be making hay while the sun shines in that regard.

 

[Sully111]

Lets see how our midfield goes against the Dees midfield
but it looks so much better then i thought it would be before the season started

To me, even if the Dees midfield gives our current midfield a bath next time we play them, I don't see why this list can't win a flag.

 

[11men1cup]

I think Gags did a decent job, it was coaching that let us down, the vanilla game style we had absolutely sucked the life out of the list for the past two years, made players look worse than what they are.

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[StCicatriz]

I hope we just keep hitting the draft now. As Ross said, we've created an environment which is letting young recruits excel, and we should be making hay while the sun shines in that regard.

100%

 

[StCicatriz]

I think Gags did a decent job, it was coaching that let us down, the vanilla game style we had absolutely sucked the life out of the list for the past two years, made players look worse than what they are.

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the works gags did isnt the reason why we are in a good spot now. the core of it came from the head recruiter who didnt have much of anything to do anything or he's predecessors.

 

[gringo2011]

To me, even if the Dees midfield gives our current midfield a bath next time we play them, I don't see why this list can't win a flag.

This year?

 

[Mowman]

To me, even if the Dees midfield gives our current midfield a bath next time we play them, I don't see why this list can't win a flag.

Its what we should be aiming for

Yep Windy - Owens - The Pou - NWM - Caminiti - Stocker all with another 40+ games

Its a very promising group of youngest

King - Higgins - Battle - Wilkie etc

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think Gags did a decent job, it was coaching that let us down, the vanilla game style we had absolutely sucked the life out of the list for the past two years, made players look worse than what they are.

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Ratten communicating his game plan was about as effective as this....

 

[Sully111]

Maybe it is, who knows. Plenty of average sides have won flags in the past but it would require a bit of luck IMO. Probably all depends on how much we can get out of the players from Hunter Clark's generation down.

Our backs look really good. Battle, Wilkie Awesome... Sincs Nas and Stocker delivering the ball to our mids... delicious.

Our wings are superb. Hill and Mason flipping Wood... are you kidding me

Get members and King back with Butler and Higgins up there... Pou etc... our forwards are Dangerous as hell

That leaves our mids.

Get our forwards back and throw owens in the midfield. He'll destroy m'f'k'r's. Steele is a gun. Crouch is a ball pig. Hunts has X factor. We need Gresh to really hit his strides. Windy... C'mon.

We have the best coach in the afl imo. His assistants are next level compared to what we've had.

We might have some games where we get destroyed... I don't care. I don't see why there isn't possibly a flag in this group next year or the year after or even... gasp... this year (long shot I know)

 

[gringo2011]

I think Gags did a decent job, it was coaching that let us down, the vanilla game style we had absolutely sucked the life out of the list for the past two years, made players look worse than what they are.

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Under Richo we had FA. Stuv was our gun and then we dropped away to Seb Ross and Newnes types. Steele came on late in his tenure but then Ross and others dropped away and we moved on a lot of those GOPs like Bruce, Acres, Newnes, Hickey etc.

Ratts had a lot more given to him and with a few of those guys like Clark, Coff, Pats coming on and players like Wilkie coming in he had a bit more to work with.

Our improvement has come from a lot more guys going up a level and joining Steele. Sinclair, Marshall, Wood, Crouch, Wilkie all going close or to A grade.

Their understudies in Gresham, Ross, King, Battle, Howard have moved into their old positions. And old guys like Webster, Billings and Membrey.

A level of almost types in Clark, Higgins, Butler, Coffield, Paton etc

Then developing kids who look good.

There are still holes in our list but it's definitely improving.

 

[gringo2011]

Our backs look really good. Battle, Wilkie Awesome... Sincs Nas and Stocker delivering the ball to our mids... delicious.

Our wings are superb. Hill and Mason *ing Wood... are you kidding me

Get members and King back with Butler and Higgins up there... Pou etc... our forwards are Dangerous as hell

That leaves our mids.

Get our forwards back and throw owens in the midfield. He'll destroy m'f'k'r's. Steele is a gun. Crouch is a ball pig. Hunts has X factor. We need Gresh to really hit his strides. Windy... C'mon.

We have the best coach in the afl imo. His assistants are next level compared to what we've had.

We might have some games where we get destroyed... I don't care. I don't see why there isn't possibly a flag in this group next year or the year after or even... gasp... this year (long shot I know)

I reckon our mids and backs were good last year, we fell down up forward and transition was very ordinary. Looks like our transition is heaps better and the team is better gelled. If we go up a level we need that forward line to fire against the best sides and probably need one more of our mids like Clark or Bytel to go up a level to cover injury. Steele going down derailed 2022.

 

[Sully111]

I reckon our mids and backs were good last year, we fell down up forward and transition was very ordinary. Looks like our transition is heaps better and the team is better gelled. If we go up a level we need that forward line to fire against the best sides and probably need one more of our mids like Clark or Bytel to go up a level to cover injury. Steele going down derailed 2022.

I get what you're saying but for me, last year is irrelevant due to Ratts vs Lyon

 

[CursingFijian]

Saints go marching on as young gun signs new deal

St Kilda's strong start to 2023 continues by re-signing young talent Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera

www.afl.com.au

 

[jh38]

This year?

Absolutely, look at seasons gone where a team has shot up from the bottom 10 and won a flag (Richmond and Melbourne the 2 most recent examples. This season just feels eerily similar to that. Currently, we're bottom 6 for shots on goals and inside 50s yet we're still undefeated. Just imagine what'll happen once we get the cavalry back.