List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[Mowman]

Which is opp to what Stav said he heard but wasn't form his no1 source

What about Clark?
How's that looking
Media saying about to sign with us but still a few whispers about him going

The last week I have heard one of Clark or Howard will be traded

Today Howard is staying I’m told

So most likely Clark stays Howard goes

 

[Diehard Saint]

Honestly think it's us that want to lose players for FRDPs to save face again.

They said from the beginning they were looking to get extra picks in the first round.

Based on history, you’re not wrong to have angst but we have different people in place now, so it’s not like they have any face saving to do
(Not yet, anyway )

 

[Tyrian Lonestar]

We aren't 'going after' Shiel.

He's a salary dump for the Bombers. The deal would help them clear 500-700k extra in their cap to front load some contracts and go again in next year's FA pool.

If it was James Stewart on the same contract we'd be talking about him instead.

If Meth are trying to offload him for a salary dump, that says a lot imo

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

You could well be right, but how would the AFL feel about a free agent not being able to go to his selected club because we match the offer? I Don't believe we'll be letting Gresh go for a second round compo? That salary dump came with a very nice pick for the Cats, which is really what got the deal done.

At the end of the day, its all supposition I suppose. Be interesting to see what plays out.

Is everyone missing the elephant in the room here... current AFL CEO is a massive saints fan and as someone mentioned earlier a possible future Saints CEO, AFL may well let anything Saints need signing off on through

 

[Leap of Faith]

Gresham and our first round pick. Not just Gresham and Shiel comes in to dump salary and probably plays most games despite not being very good or part of the future.

Gresham is not a great kick seems to be the knock.....then chase Shiel and Dow who are probably the two most renowned bad kicks in footy. That's borderline trolling.

Don’t think it’s Gresham and our first rounder. Crikey I don’t understand what the confusion is. We let Gresh go as a FA and The Injectors agree to pay him so we receive band 1 compensation - pick 13. We take Shiel and pay his $1m salary for a year. End of next year he’s OOC and we have $1m to throw at a free agent. If Shiel delivers any good games for us that’s a bonus. The point is pick 13. Maybe we give back a late pick packet of chips for Shiel. What’s not to like?

 

[g_TRAIN]

I don't want Shiel but I'll take him if it gives us another first-round draft pick.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Small things amuse small minds I guess

Watch the same types freak out when we get 3rd round compo and Shiel retires a week after we trade for him.

Still reckon the season supply of CC's for RTB is a better option.

We’re not trading for Shiel unless we get a guaranteed first round compo.
And well you know that….so stop being so mischievous otherwise I may have to report you as a troll

 

[stavro#4]

Don’t think it’s Gresham and our first rounder. Crikey I don’t understand what the confusion is. We let Gresh go as a FA and The Injectors agree to pay him so we receive band 1 compensation - pick 13. We take Shiel and pay his $1m salary for a year. End of next year he’s OOC and we have $1m to throw at a free agent. If Shiel delivers any good games for us that’s a bonus. The point is pick 13. Maybe we give back a late pick packet of chips for Shiel. What’s not to like?

People are emotionally invested in people like Gresham.

When they are nearing the exit door. They start overrating how good they are.

Like when you reminisce about the end of a relationship. Everything seems better when your at the end.

But then you forget how you got to the end.

If you go look at the Essendon board. They feel similar about Gresham as we do about shiel

 

[jimmytigs]

is anyone else getting the slightest sniff of clark and howard to norf for their upcoming charity middle of first round pick?they love clark and when mckay leaves they will love howard

 

[Leap of Faith]

Surely this isn't accurate?

Why would we do a deal to take on Shiels salary to get a first round compo for Gresh only to give them a high end pick?

We wouldn’t do that surely. The whole point is to have two first rounders

 

[Silkie]

I ******* love these trade re-caps…

"In years to come, the 2013 Trade Period will be seen as the moment the Saints began their climb."

The 2013 Trade Period was when St Kilda’s list re-shaping truly began to take full effect.

Although it was considered controversial at the time, trading Ben McEvoy for Shane Savage and pick no.17 (which later became 18 and was used on Luke Dunstan), is now widely seen as a win-win for both Hawthorn and St Kilda.

Trade rewind: 2013

A look back at a trade period that brought four new players to the Saints.

www.saints.com.au

“McEvoy has played in back-to-back flags, while Savage has become a key pillar of the Saints’ defence.”

Amazing, that’s what I call a win-win

 

[Leap of Faith]

People are emotionally invested in people like Gresham.

When they are nearing the exit door. They start overrating how good they are.

Like when you reminisce about the end of a relationship. Everything seems better when your at the end.

But then you forget how you got to the end.

If you go look at the Essendon board. They feel similar about Gresham as we do about shiel

Are they ‘ambivalent’?

 

[kernelT]

The Saints admin might need to give Geelong a call to clarify how salary dumps work.

You don't offer up a usable pick - nothing under 4th rounder.

We were morons for helping Sydney get a cooked Hanners off their books AND giving them decent picks for the privilege.

If we give up anything remotely usable for taking Shiel we haven't learnt a thing.

 

[MordySaint]

The Saints admin might need to give Geelong a call to clarify how salary dumps work.

You don't offer up a usable pick - nothing under 4th rounder.

We were morons for helping Sydney get a cooked Hanners off their books AND giving them decent picks for the privilege.

If we give up anything remotely usable for taking Shiel we haven't learnt a thing.

The idea of giving anything up for Shiel is Hanners all over again.

Lethers is still there, I am 100% sure he is smart and learns from his mistakes.

 

[kernelT]

People are emotionally invested in people like Gresham.

When they are nearing the exit door. They start overrating how good they are.

Like when you reminisce about the end of a relationship. Everything seems better when your at the end.

But then you forget how you got to the end.

If you go look at the Essendon board. They feel similar about Gresham as we do about shiel

Look I'm sure we get emotionally invested in all of our players.

But if you take emotion out of it, Gresham just turned 26, is currently our only point of difference in a stodgy midfield and he kicks goals.

As pointed out ad nauseam, cashing in our better players for draft capital has a failure rate of nearly 100%.

We've been excited about pick 13 before, we're like a draft pick laundering service, where we feed good players to other clubs in the process.

 

[akaifu]

How are people still not understanding this deal. We are NOT giving up a first rounder, it'll be a later pick.

In: Pick 13, Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

Out: Gresham, LATE pick (2nd rounder at most)

We will end up with picks 12&13. What we do with them remains to be seen.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Don’t think it’s Gresham and our first rounder. Crikey I don’t understand what the confusion is. We let Gresh go as a FA and The Injectors agree to pay him so we receive band 1 compensation - pick 13. We take Shiel and pay his $1m salary for a year. End of next year he’s OOC and we have $1m to throw at a free agent. If Shiel delivers any good games for us that’s a bonus. The point is pick 13. Maybe we give back a late pick packet of chips for Shiel. What’s not to like?

That means we could be bastards, and pull out of the deal after they sign Gresham up, get the first round pick and leave them with Shiel.

I like my bastard scenario a lot.

 

[akaifu]

Look I'm sure we get emotionally invested in all of our players.

But if you take emotion out of it, Gresham just turned 26, is currently our only point of difference in a stodgy midfield and he kicks goals.

As pointed out ad nauseam, cashing in our better players for draft capital has a failure rate of nearly 100%.

We've been excited about pick 13 before, we're like a draft pick laundering service, where we feed good players to other clubs in the process.

Ross has stated a million times that the Saints want to keep Gresham, but Gresham does not want to stay. Why would we keep him then?

Also, Gresham barely played any midfield this season. The times he did play well, he played zero midfield. He plays full time forward and still only averages a goal a game.

 

[MordySaint]

How are people still not understanding this deal. We are NOT giving up a first rounder, it'll be a later pick.

In: Pick 13, Dylan Shiel
Out: Gresham, LATE pick (2nd rounder at most)

We will end up with picks 12&13. What we do with them remains to be seen.

So its:

In: Pick 13
Out: Gresham and a 2nd rounder

 

[akaifu]

is anyone else getting the slightest sniff of clark and howard to norf for their upcoming charity middle of first round pick?they love clark and when mckay leaves they will love howard

Clark is set to re-sign

 

[magd2992]

This is it

Club last 12 months had got most things right

Let’s trust them

Exactly.

Shiel be right, mate.

 

[gubby88]

People are emotionally invested in people like Gresham.

When they are nearing the exit door. They start overrating how good they are.

Like when you reminisce about the end of a relationship. Everything seems better when your at the end.

But then you forget how you got to the end.

If you go look at the Essendon board. They feel similar about Gresham as we do about shiel

It's like Dunstan all over again. End of 2020 people were calling him AA quality because he got brownlow votes ffs....

Retired 6 games and 3 seasons later was about how good he was...

On SM-G988B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JediSaint]

We tried to get 3 off them last year in the Clark deal

Doubt they'd have changed their mind now, especially when he's uncontracted

With McKay set to leave, I’m sure we could package up #13 (sheil compo) and Dougal Howard for Norf #3

Norf will pick up an experienced KPD plus a look in at either Sullivan or Murphy as a KPD.

If they want Clark to sweeten the deal then I’m sure more changes of picks could occur.

 

[Joffaboy]

really trying to stay away from this dumpster fire of a thread but the lack of understanding of the proposal is infuriating.

Quite simply

1. Essendon offer Gresham enough to activate band1 which would be pick 13.

Advantages for Essendon - they wont need to trade for a matched Gresham
Advantage for St.Kilda - pick 13 to go with pick 12

2. For doing the above, St.Kilda trades for Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

with a later pick

Advantage for Essendon - the difference in the extra they offered Gresham to Sheils full salary.
An extra pick.
Advantage for St.Kilda - still the same as above but get a ready made mid who would bolster the depth of our thin midfield.

Scenario - Essendon what a higher pick that originally worked out in the deal (say 13 instead of 31).

They can't offer Gresham less as FA is much earlier than trading so Saints still get band 1 and they still have 5 to 7 hundred k on their books with a player behind about 7 other mids, and don't have the extra draft pick.

the deal will have to be worked out prior and in good faith...but as outlined above the Saints would have the whip hand if Dildoro tried any shenanigans.

It is not a difficult concept. Will it eventuate? Who knows, but the gnashing of teeth and howling at the moon when the basic premis is a first for a player leaving anyway is astounding.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

How much does Dylan Shiel get paid?

The reports all are about $800,000 per year.



The former Giants star's future is suddenly unsettled despite being in the middle of a monster six-year deal, reported to be worth around $4.8 million. It has now been reported at least one club is monitoring Shiel's situation at Essendon — five months before the 2022 AFL Trade Period. 23 May 2022

Though it may not be he same amount per year though. If front end loaded may be less in his last year.


Ignoring the money the big question is, does Essendon want Shiel on their list in 2024, or would they prefer him gone?

If they want him gone, then the deal would attractive to them.
If they want to keep him, the deal is a lot less attractive to them.

If the Dons get Gresham playing HF/Mid, would they have a spot for Shiel?

According to Eth Dog most the Essendope list play for the love of the club & petrol money.

They even buy their own raffle tickets & one lucky player wins a meat tray after every home game.

That & a $400k secretarial role for their Mrs at Toll Holdings.

All kosher mind you.


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