2024 Draft Thread.

[Winmar2Lockett]

Nah untrue. You miss 100% of shots you don’t take. You just need to keep drafting consistently to keep a bedrock of potential players coming through. And taking mostly mids until you can prove you don’t need to because you have an elite midfield.

So the talent and depth issues we have are all due to the 2019 draft?

Trout will be relieved that he's finally off the hook!

 

[_Maximus_12]

That clip of Langford on the AFL site has him looking very Pou 2.0. No obvious weakness. Big tick for me

 

[Joffaboy]

We should have drafted when we were coming to an end for a big chunk of the list. No-one goes out and tops up at that point.

We should have gone back to the draft and stayed down adding a layer of players. We probably won't have any of those guys playing in our next chance at a flag and possibly even in our next finals series.

We now have very few mid career guys because we didn't draft then and the age group is still imbalanced.

I know I will never change your mind, we will just have to disagree.

I think in your scenario we would not have made finals in 2020 or 2023, would have had Steele, Acres (would have been around) King and Marshall walk by now as there would have been a North Melbourne type performance as the imbalance of our list meant lots or retirements of experience (Geary, Steven, Brown, Carlisle, Gilbert) and an extremely young list.

We would have got a couple more first rounders and some undervalued picks for the players wanting out, the admin would have all been sacked and we would be so disabilised that we would probably be in a worse spot from about 2022 than North were.

It was not topping up, it was trying to balance the list with some experience for the top end experience that would leave over the next couple of years. Under your scenario the list would have crashed and burned.

All of this is a consequence from the poor management of lists coaches, admin, players, trading ect from the previous 8 years.

When Finnis came on board we were at Seaford, losing members, a nothing list, a diabolical financial situation, and a shoddy football and admin staff.

He started to put in the foundations, moving us back to Moorabbin, redeveloping Linton St into a great facility, getting the debt under control and beginning the change to at least competent list management.

But the damage to the list was done by end of 2019, we had a huge gap of middle aged players and it had to be fixed, after what the club had done in the previous 8 years leading up to this, the membership would not entertain early 80's Saints with 3 or four wooden spoons in a row followed by bad table results and no finals.

The 2019 trades gave the place breathing room to not collapse like North or WCE and to consolidate the success of the relocation, the financial stability, and the gradual improvement of the club and football admin.
We are not a basket case, we are a solid club with a decent financial footing, a very good admin, a very good list and recruitment manager, a very good coach and a decent but not flag winning list.

However the foundations were put in place in 2019 trading with all four still getting AFL games although Jones is very sketchy nowadays and will probably be his last year. Howard is having his best season for us, Hill just signed for another three and plays very good football, and Butler is a bit behind Higgins but still contributes.

So in my opinion the trades were to balance the list not to top up to win a flag. Serong, Acres and a few 3rd rounders would not have had the same output as Hill, Jones, Butler, Howard and Ryder, and our results would have been devestating.

 

[snails13]

Here is another draft article from the HS -

https://archive.md/k7COu

I remarkable how different the media pundits have their power rankings, it just highlights there are noclear No 1 pick and the top 10 could be a up to 15-20 playersdpending on club ratings.

Cal Twomey Is the man

 

[_Maximus_12]

Had any of Billings, McCartin, Goddard, Acres, Tom Lee, Billy Longer

Billy Longer

Age

31

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.6

4star

CL

2.2

4star

HO

29.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.4

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.2

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

22.6

5star

, Nathan Freeman

Nathan Freeman

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

8.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

4star

CL

1.0

3star

, Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

, Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

or Nick Coffield come on as the elite players their draft pick suggests then we wouldn't be in the hole we're in. Talent ID and Talent development between 2010-2020 is the number one factor behind of lack of success in the last 14 years.

 

[gringo2011]

Somebody posted Langford's involvements from a game and he looked fantastic. Great size, clearances, good kick. When I asked what the knock was, apparently he tested very poorly athletically. The footage doesn't seem to suggest that at all...

Same as Reid. Both are outstanding players even if their athletic profiles look ordinary. Obviously depending how bad but to me Langford was consistently the best player in the VC squad over the champs.

 

[gringo2011]

So the talent and depth issues we have are all due to the 2019 draft?

Trout will be relieved that he's finally off the hook!

You people are obviously in some kind of denial. It was years of mismanagement added to by more mismanagement. Lethlean and Gags did so much damage in such a short period of time. Luckily they got swept out.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Obviously midfielders are our greatest need so I have been searching for possible bargains.

I went through all the Coates League stats and this kid stands out Zak Johnson 185cm - Northern Knights. He doesnt come up in any of the top 30 power rankings, but he is a ball magnet for the Northern Knights averaging 28 disposals per game. He played across the HBF for Vic Metro and was good without being outstanding, but obviously his natural position is as a midfielder.

Perhaps he is one of those players rated good at most things without elite traits. I think he is a kid who would be a great late pick up if still on the board.



Note: The other thing to consider is the Northern Academies have a plethora of talented kids, it wouldnt surprise to see us bidding on their midfielders at some stage. All 4 teams have an abundance of midfielders so some may not be matched.

 

[Diehard Saint]

If we couldn’t have picked Phillipou because we got Cam Mackenzie. I don’t care about missing him. Phillipou is going to be one of the best players in the competition. I will die on that hill!

If we do end up with two picks in the top 10. I think this is a great draft to have them. There is a lot up in the air about the order of the draft. I think it is a great opportunity to snagged some great players outside of the top 3. We have one of the best recruiters, let’s see what he can do.

I am excited to see what talent the club can produce through our nga program. We want players from the bayside area to play in our club. Well here is our golden ticket.

We have access to both Sandringham Dragons and Dandenong Stingrays, along with the Smjfl and feel. That is two elite TAC football programs and a lot of very good junior clubs that play in those leagues.

I am a bit confused though. Mac Andrews played for the Stingrays. Why was he in the Melbourne NGA?

Is there a timeline for when Battle has to inform the club.
He surely cant string them (and us) along right till the end?
Sounds the perfect draft for 2 top 10s - I am coming to terms with losing him - and then he'll decide to stay!

 

[gringo2011]

Had any of Billings, McCartin, Goddard, Acres, Tom Lee, Billy Longer, Nathan Freeman, Jade Gresham, Hunter Clark or Nick Coffield come on as the elite players their draft pick suggests then we wouldn't be in the hole we're in. Talent ID and Talent development between 2010-2020 is the number one factor behind of lack of success in the last 14 years.

We drafted badly, sold players for nothing or delisted them and then couldn't replace them, over paid for ordinary or broken down players, let players go because our contracting had shit players on multi year deals and couldn't be released to free up spots etc.

It wasn't one thing but having the worst drafting in the league over a huge span of time is obviously the main issue but it wasn't just that. We had a terrible footy department that failed to maximise talent, poor planning, no vision etc.

Obviously midfielders are our greatest need so I have been searching for possible bargains.

I went through all the Coates League stats and this kid stands out Zak Johnson 185cm - Northern Knights. He doesnt come up in any of the top 30 power rankings, but he is a ball magnet for the Northern Knights averaging 28 disposals per game. He played across the HBF for Vic Metro and was good without being outstanding, but obviously his natural position is as a midfielder.

Perhaps he is one of those players rated good at most things without elite traits. I think he is a kid who would be a great late pick up if still on the board.

Cody Anderson too. Got an injury during the champs and sat out the last game.

 

[gringo2011]

Is there a timeline for when Battle has to inform the club.
He surely cant string them (and us) along right till the end?
Sounds the perfect draft for 2 top 10s - I am coming to terms with losing him - and then he'll decide to stay!

He's said the end of the season so I imagine once games finish. It's sounding like he's gone though now. I don't think the club are that keen on keeping him and it sounds like he's happy to go to the Hawks.

 

[gringo2011]

I know I will never change your mind, we will just have to disagree.

I think in your scenario we would not have made finals in 2020 or 2023, would have had Steele, Acres (would have been around) King and Marshall walk by now as there would have been a North Melbourne type performance as the imbalance of our list meant lots or retirements of experience (Geary, Steven, Brown, Carlisle, Gilbert) and an extremely young list.

We would have got a couple more first rounders and some undervalued picks for the players wanting out, the admin would have all been sacked and we would be so disabilised that we would probably be in a worse spot from about 2022 than North were.

It was not topping up, it was trying to balance the list with some experience for the top end experience that would leave over the next couple of years. Under your scenario the list would have crashed and burned.

All of this is a consequence from the poor management of lists coaches, admin, players, trading ect from the previous 8 years.

When Finnis came on board we were at Seaford, losing members, a nothing list, a diabolical financial situation, and a shoddy football and admin staff.

He started to put in the foundations, moving us back to Moorabbin, redeveloping Linton St into a great facility, getting the debt under control and beginning the change to at least competent list management.

But the damage to the list was done by end of 2019, we had a huge gap of middle aged players and it had to be fixed, after what the club had done in the previous 8 years leading up to this, the membership would not entertain early 80's Saints with 3 or four wooden spoons in a row followed by bad table results and no finals.

The 2019 trades gave the place breathing room to not collapse like North or WCE and to consolidate the success of the relocation, the financial stability, and the gradual improvement of the club and football admin.
We are not a basket case, we are a solid club with a decent financial footing, a very good admin, a very good list and recruitment manager, a very good coach and a decent but not flag winning list.

However the foundations were put in place in 2019 trading with all four still getting AFL games although Jones is very sketchy nowadays and will probably be his last year. Howard is having his best season for us, Hill just signed for another three and plays very good football, and Butler is a bit behind Higgins but still contributes.

So in my opinion the trades were to balance the list not to top up to win a flag. Serong, Acres and a few 3rd rounders would not have had the same output as Hill, Jones, Butler, Howard and Ryder, and our results would have been devestating.

So every rebuild that has been done the right way has been done by drafting in a bulk of your talent and then topping up to fill holes. There was no precedence for doing it the way we did it for good reason.

Of course we needed list repair because we'd blown the previous 2 rebuilds by doing dumb shit. At the point guys like Stuv, Roberton etc were leaving it was time to take our hit and stay down for a few seasons while we built a core through drafting.

List management isn't difficult or mystical. You need to know where you're at in the cycle and add talent to suit that point and set up for the future.

You're an accountant. It's like borrowing $200k for a new ute a year before you retire from you plumbing business otherwise. It's just stupidity to think that you can subvert the system and do it all backwards.

We were always trying to cheat the timeline and paying the price. Keeping a recruiter that was an absolute liability and having never addressed serious development staff helped cap off one of the club's worst administration periods since the AFL era.

 

[Klaatu]

He's said the end of the season so I imagine once games finish. It's sounding like he's gone though now. I don't think the club are that keen on keeping him and it sounds like he's happy to go to the Hawks.

Why do you keep saying the club doesn't want him,have you spoken to Josh

 

[akaifu]

Kinda gone off the Lalor bandwagon - just on the basis that he didn’t accumulate at the carnival.

Langford and Jagga back to back is the dream now

Twomey -

What a prospect Langford has become across the course of the season. The left-footed midfielder has a point of difference in his height and strength and he uses it to be able to mark above his head as well as bust through stoppages then slice teams apart with his kicking. He was a deserving joint winner of the Larke Medal as the best player (alongside Leo Lombard) in the national carnival, where he averaged 25.5 disposals, six clearances and six inside 50s for Vic Country. Langford has done what he has liked for Dandenong at stages this season and rocketed right into top-five contention. As a midfielder, he's among the most complete options

Lalor played too much forward to be accumulating, isn’t fully fit yet. Too many lower body injuries at the start of the season. He’ll go berserk when he’s at full fitness and will likely justify a top 5 pick

 

[stavro#4]

Lalor played too much forward to be accumulating, isn’t fully fit yet. Too many lower body injuries at the start of the season. He’ll go berserk when he’s at full fitness and will likely justify a top 5 pick

Maybe.

I did post that it was something I personally WANTED to see though.

I want mids. I want to feel assured that going for Lalor has some tangible vision of him carrying a side in the middle of the park

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yeah because we know that’s who we would have taken. We would probably have finished bottom 4 for a few years and been able to build the core. Now we are still patching and no further advanced. If you are still justifying the sacked staff years after the evidence suggests they failed you are cult members.

That's the thing - we don't know who we or anyone else would have picked.

So I just go on the player selected at our Pick rather than cherry picking the next best performed player 4 years after the event.

As for being no further advanced - that's just a lot of nonsense.

So every rebuild that has been done the right way has been done by drafting in a bulk of your talent and then topping up to fill holes. There was no precedence for doing it the way we did it for good reason.

Of course we needed list repair because we'd blown the previous 2 rebuilds by doing dumb shit. At the point guys like Stuv, Roberton etc were leaving it was time to take our hit and stay down for a few seasons while we built a core through drafting.

List management isn't difficult or mystical. You need to know where you're at in the cycle and add talent to suit that point and set up for the future.

You're an accountant. It's like borrowing $200k for a new ute a year before you retire from you plumbing business otherwise. It's just stupidity to think that you can subvert the system and do it all backwards.

We were always trying to cheat the timeline and paying the price. Keeping a recruiter that was an absolute liability and having never addressed serious development staff helped cap off one of the club's worst administration periods since the AFL era.

Sure glad we got SOS then instead of Gallagher.

Great to get such an experienced well credentialed list manager instead of some bank manager. You won't see him wasting hard won free agency compo on some young kid who won't be at the club next year.

Then again we've got Dalrymple now - how good is he - as long as you forget how his 2019 draft haul would look if he didn't have a 4th Pick in the draft. Traded, delisted, sacked and then got lucky.

But yeah - drafting and trading is so so so simple.

 

[stavro#4]

Good to see Twomey with big wraps for Adrian Cole. Our lockdown fullback NGA pick.

Said he was close to getting a spot in Twomeys top 30 phantom guide.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

You people are obviously in some kind of denial. It was years of mismanagement added to by more mismanagement. Lethlean and Gags did so much damage in such a short period of time. Luckily they got swept out.

The damage was primarily done before them (as you've stated numerous times, our gaping chasm of talent in the 25-28 bracket is our biggest issue & is due to decisions that preceded the Lethers/Gags regime).

They made their blues of course but every admin at every club has misses.

You've spent plenty of time bemoaning the Trout years... no matter what you say, things started to improve under Satan & his sidekick. It was still half arsed & the bar was low but they started to right the ship.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

Maybe.

I did post that it was something I personally WANTED to see though.

I want mids. I want to feel assured that going for Lalor has some tangible vision of him carrying a side in the middle of the park

He has shown that. More match fitness and inside minutes for the rest of the season will decide how far he goes up: need a solid mix of production and also predicting how far they can go at AFL level. I’d be suprised if we are looking at Langford over the other types more just because Pou is a very similar sort of player. Can’t have two of the same one paced bigger midfielders in the same mix. I’d say we will probably try compliment Pou and build our midfield around him. Which is why if we got two picks inside the top 10 we would probably lean more towards smith/draper, lalor to compliment what we have. Lots change over the coming months as it’s only July and you can’t really get carried away with one offs. If Langford tests well at the combine would make it very interesting anywho

 

[Joffaboy]

So every rebuild that has been done the right way has been done by drafting in a bulk of your talent and then topping up to fill holes. There was no precedence for doing it the way we did it for good reason.

Of course we needed list repair because we'd blown the previous 2 rebuilds by doing dumb shit. At the point guys like Stuv, Roberton etc were leaving it was time to take our hit and stay down for a few seasons while we built a core through drafting.

List management isn't difficult or mystical. You need to know where you're at in the cycle and add talent to suit that point and set up for the future.

You're an accountant. It's like borrowing $200k for a new ute a year before you retire from you plumbing business otherwise. It's just stupidity to think that you can subvert the system and do it all backwards.

We were always trying to cheat the timeline and paying the price. Keeping a recruiter that was an absolute liability and having never addressed serious development staff helped cap off one of the club's worst administration periods since the AFL era.

Your accounting analogy is very poor, you would write off both the loan interest and the capital all in the one year to diminish your tax liability. The principle of the loan would be a NCA and part of the sale of the business as would be the Ute. Pretty savvy move.
The ATAR profit would go into your kick and straight into your super.

So it's like what Saints did, invested in the current business with capital to be passed on to the next owner.

You sound a bit silly saying list management is easy. I assume you have never been involved in it so you are speaking from a position of ignorance. Everything is easy when you don't have to do it.



On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

Good to see Twomey with big wraps for Adrian Cole. Our lockdown fullback NGA pick.

Said he was close to getting a spot in Twomeys top 30 phantom guide.

Look very good in the Metro v Country Champs.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stavro#4]

He has shown that. More match fitness and inside minutes for the rest of the season will decide how far he goes up: need a solid mix of production and also predicting how far they can go at AFL level. I’d be suprised if we are looking at Langford over the other types more just because Pou is a very similar sort of player. Can’t have two of the same one paced bigger midfielders in the same mix. I’d say we will probably try compliment Pou and build our midfield around him. Which is why if we got two picks inside the top 10 we would probably lean more towards smith/draper, lalor to compliment what we have. Lots change over the coming months as it’s only July and you can’t really get carried away with one offs. If Langford tests well at the combine would make it very interesting anywho

I’m high on Pou

But I can guarantee you. They won’t be selecting players to compliment him or worrying about having overlapping skill sets with him.

They will take best available and Langford is projecting into a Clayton Oliver/Bont type of big mid having a massive rise in their draft year.

He is a midfield pig that we don’t have any similar types too. In the way we don’t have any similar types to Jagga Smith.


Using your own methodology, Lalor for example - if he doesn’t turn into a mid at afl level. We would have similar in comparison to Owens.

 

[stavro#4]

Look very good in the Metro v Country Champs.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Did some nice things as a pure stopper.

Was a lot more advanced than expected too.

You have to wonder if that plays into the Howard contract situation - Knowing you have a young KPD coming into the list for next season.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Did some nice things as a pure stopper.

Was a lot more advanced than expected too.

You have to wonder if that plays into the Howard contract situation - Knowing you have a young KPD coming into the list for next season.

As well as JVE Keeler Schooner.

 

[stavro#4]

Jagga smith named captain

Dodson was the ruck I said looked very good in here last week.

Would be chuffed if we had p4+5 and took Langford and smith and Dodson in the second round.

A/A Ruck and rovers