2024 Draft Thread.

[Winmar2Lockett]

Did some nice things as a pure stopper.

Was a lot more advanced than expected too.

You have to wonder if that plays into the Howard contract situation - Knowing you have a young KPD coming into the list for next season.

Gotta give Doug another couple of years, especially if Battle is gorn.

Cole and Van Es (plus SchoonerMonster) would gives us a couple of promising defensive bookends to build around.

 

[stavro#4]

Gotta give Doug another couple of years, especially if Battle is gorn.

Cole and Van Es (plus SchoonerMonster) would gives us a couple of promising defensive bookends to build around.

It’s just interesting that the last reported news was that no talks had taken place this late into the season.

 

[TheJackal]

If we couldn’t have picked Phillipou because we got Cam Mackenzie. I don’t care about missing him. Phillipou is going to be one of the best players in the competition. I will die on that hill!

I've joined you on that hill, don't you worry. But it's not as simple as Phillipou over McKenzie.

The assumption would be that to get McKenzie we could move our FRDP to the following year. So that could've been anything, it could've been something like McKenzie and Windsor instead of Phillipou.

Either way, we missed a decent free hit, we got lucky with the GOAT Mattaes, but it still isn't ideal.

 

[StCicatriz]

Did some nice things as a pure stopper.

Was a lot more advanced than expected too.

You have to wonder if that plays into the Howard contract situation - Knowing you have a young KPD coming into the list for next season.

young KPDs tend to take 24-36 months to start having a decent impact. its very unknown if he can impact the game in Ross's tenure.

so i think each would be handled in isolation. if we are moving on howard we would need to be looking at a ready made replacement. i think hammers form would impact that more so than an U18 player.

 

[gringo2011]

Why do you keep saying the club doesn't want him,have you spoken to Josh

I think that they could have got it done if they’d wanted too. We obviously have an amount we aren’t willing to flex from. If they really wanted him they’d front load while we have lots of cap space.

 

[StCicatriz]

Gotta give Doug another couple of years, especially if Battle is gorn.

Cole and Van Es (plus SchoonerMonster) would gives us a couple of promising defensive bookends to build around.

arie has alot ot work on with his defencive positioning and his ability to stay in a contest

cole and van es even more speculative. van es has shown absolutely nothing so far.

howard in battle's position will be an unmitigated disaster. howards whole problem is he can't defend on the lead because he just cant cover the ground. battles whole thing is that he can cover the ground albeit he is a tad undersized. but because of his agility and read on the play it doesn't really matter that he's giving up a couple of cms.

 

[stavro#4]

young KPDs tend to take 24-36 months to start having a decent impact. its very unknown if he can impact the game in Ross's tenure.

so i think each would be handled in isolation. if we are moving on howard we would need to be looking at a ready made replacement. i think hammers form would impact that more so than an U18 player.

It wouldn’t be from the prospective of Cole V Howard.

They would be looking at the group of defensive talls.

Keeler. Van Es. Cordy. Caminiti. Wilkie. Cole.

That’s how they then move onto individual players and decisions on them.

That’s a solid group with potential and question marks. Overlay that with a cheaper stop gap and what value they may get for Howard.

 

[StCicatriz]

It wouldn’t be from the prospective of Cole V Howard.

They would be looking at the group of defensive talls.

Keeler. Van Es. Cordy. Caminiti. Wilkie. Cole.

That’s how they then move onto individual players and decisions on them.

That’s a solid group with potential and question marks. Overlay that with a cheaper stop gap and what value they may get for Howard.

i disagree entirely the conversation on howard will be about the next 3 years.

the conversation on Cole will be about what happens after the next 3 years. cole won't be ready to take the big tall fwd especially those playing finals, which is what ross will want.

take caminiti. he's a very capable young KPP prospect who's pretty advance for his age. even he is in and out of the side. cole aint going to be forming those discussion around howard.

the whole howard and battle convo involves shipping them off for picks and then expecting a very green U18 to be effective so we can continue to push for finals. its not realistic. if you're letting them go you need a ready made replacement who's not an U18 rookie, otherwise you're leaking 2-4 goals a game for battle and 1-2 for howard.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

I’m high on Pou

But I can guarantee you. They won’t be selecting players to compliment him or worrying about having overlapping skill sets with him.

They will take best available and Langford is projecting into a Clayton Oliver/Bont type of big mid having a massive rise in their draft year.

He is a midfield pig that we don’t have any similar types too. In the way we don’t have any similar types to Jagga Smith.


Using your own methodology, Lalor for example - if he doesn’t turn into a mid at afl level. We would have similar in comparison to Owens.

I think when it’s line ball in talent you definitely do lean towards predicting your future midfield. You don’t mess around too much with needs that high up in the draft but it’s very even at the top. It’s not really a methodology he has runs on the board as a midfielder. Just because he didn’t do it in one champs game doesn’t mean he’s a write off as an AFL midfielder, every year there is production midfielders that dominate at u18s that just never make it. Jordy de goey comes to mind as the player recruiters would see in him to become. Jordy from memory was similar for the chargers in where he wasn’t having huge week in week out numbers in the midfield, he’s definitely a watch.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

arie has alot ot work on with his defencive positioning and his ability to stay in a contest

cole and van es even more speculative. van es has shown absolutely nothing so far.

howard in battle's position will be an unmitigated disaster. howards whole problem is he can't defend on the lead because he just cant cover the ground. battles whole thing is that he can cover the ground albeit he is a tad undersized. but because of his agility and read on the play it doesn't really matter that he's giving up a couple of cms.

Hence why I said promising.

Dunno why Doug would play in Battle's position. He has his own to worry about.

 

[StCicatriz]

Hence why I said promising.

Dunno why Doug would play in Battle's position. He has his own to worry about.

because you said if battle is gorn we need howard to stick around for another couple of years... the implication being here that howard can cover battles absence.

i'm pointing out that battle and howard play two completely different positions and the weaknesses in howards game would make any cover of battle a disaster.

they need to be two different conversations. if we are losing howard we need a FB who can take the big tall fwds. if we are losing battle we need a roaming CHB who can take the agile lead up fwd.

and no two green U18's are not the answer.

 

[gringo2011]

I've joined you on that hill, don't you worry. But it's not as simple as Phillipou over McKenzie.

The assumption would be that to get McKenzie we could move our FRDP to the following year. So that could've been anything, it could've been something like McKenzie and Windsor instead of Phillipou.

Either way, we missed a decent free hit, we got lucky with the GOAT Mattaes, but it still isn't ideal.

I don’t care as long as they pull in the value of later picks. Clubs will have to use first rounders or second rounders to make up value. It was insane that it was ever allowed.

 

[stavro#4]

i disagree entirely the conversation on howard will be about the next 3 years.

the conversation on Cole will be about what happens after the next 3 years. cole won't be ready to take the big tall fwd especially those playing finals, which is what ross will want.

take caminiti. he's a very capable young KPP prospect who's pretty advance for his age. even he is in and out of the side. cole aint going to be forming those discussion around howard.

the whole howard and battle convo involves shipping them off for picks and then expecting a very green U18 to be effective so we can continue to push for finals. its not realistic. if you're letting them go you need a ready made replacement who's not an U18 rookie, otherwise you're leaking 2-4 goals a game for battle and 1-2 for howard.

Thats an entirely different conversation. Because you can just say retaining Howard for 3 years makes your development better without also weighing in what potential return you get for Howard and how does that also look like in 3 years.

Which is why they generally overlay this stuff in groups.

I.e Howard is the current incumbent. Who is ready to replace him and what’s behind that etc

 

[stavro#4]

I think when it’s line ball in talent you definitely do lean towards predicting your future midfield. You don’t mess around too much with needs that high up in the draft but it’s very even at the top. It’s not really a methodology he has runs on the board as a midfielder. Just because he didn’t do it in one champs game doesn’t mean he’s a write off as an AFL midfielder, every year there is production midfielders that dominate at u18s that just never make it. Jordy de goey comes to mind as the player recruiters would see in him to become. Jordy from memory was similar for the chargers in where he wasn’t having huge week in week out numbers in the midfield, he’s definitely a watch.

I’m not saying he is a write off at all.

I’m saying personally I’m disappointed he didn’t deliver that big mid performance at nationals. I wanted to see that.

On the flipside. Langford did deliver and has done so all season against all opposition.

Now maybe we do consider Taking a small punt in regards to runs on the board and potential for runs on the board with Lalor.

But they definitely would be giving Langford a bigger tick for exposed form.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

I’m not saying he is a write off at all.

I’m saying personally I’m disappointed he didn’t deliver that big mid performance at nationals. I wanted to see that.

On the flipside. Langford did deliver and has done so all season against all opposition.

Now maybe we do consider Taking a small punt in regards to runs on the board and potential for runs on the board with Lalor.

But they definitely would be giving Langford a bigger tick for exposed form.

They would. Lalor had strong bottom aged performances and has been hampered by injury this entire year so you know what he’s capable of. It makes his end to the season pretty huge in terms of his draft stocks. Langfords performances have been outstanding none the less and people will always have favourites and who they prefer. His combine results will be fascinating. He’s a classic big bodied pig that we could definitely do worse. Strong in the contest and strong overhead are big ticks

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

because you said if battle is gorn we need howard to stick around for another couple of years... the implication being here that howard can cover battles absence.

i'm pointing out that battle and howard play two completely different positions and the weaknesses in howards game would make any cover of battle a disaster.

they need to be two different conversations. if we are losing howard we need a FB who can take the big tall fwds. if we are losing battle we need a roaming CHB who can take the agile lead up fwd.

and no two green U18's are not the answer.

No the implication was that losing two experienced defenders in one off season would throw inexperienced kids to the wolves.

Reckon we're capable of commenting on what ifs without the semantics of what role a tall defender plays TBH.

IMO a mix of Doug & Wilks for experience and Hammer/Keeler/etc as the developing KPD isn't a horrible situation. There is always the possibility as Stav has suggested that we get in another experienced head in as some coverage too.

 

[gringo2011]

That's the thing - we don't know who we or anyone else would have picked.

So I just go on the player selected at our Pick rather than cherry picking the next best performed player 4 years after the event.

As for being no further advanced - that's just a lot of nonsense.

Sure glad we got SOS then instead of Gallagher.

Great to get such an experienced well credentialed list manager instead of some bank manager. You won't see him wasting hard won free agency compo on some young kid who won't be at the club next year.

Then again we've got Dalrymple now - how good is he - as long as you forget how his 2019 draft haul would look if he didn't have a 4th Pick in the draft. Traded, delisted, sacked and then got lucky.

But yeah - drafting and trading is so so so simple.

SOS is experienced but divisive. I think he’s there due to Lyon and not the best of the best.

No one gets everything right but nearly everything we did was wrong and until recently no one faced consequences for their poor decisions.

Good rebuilds are usually based around taking bulk kids, settling on a core and filling in the holes.

It’s probably going to be 15 plus years prelim to prelim for us by the time we are done if we are lucky. Melbourne was 9. Anyone justifying the failures of the club are struggling to admit that they were wrong when they backed it the first time. It’s unacceptably bad in a system designed to equalise.

 

[stfan]

So, so much for making the draft fairer.

Those clubs with the "Gold Mine " Academy areas will just maintain their advantage as will they have exclusive access to more quality players regardless of where they finish on the ladder. And completing ignore that there is vast difference in the Academy Zones which guarantees an unfair advantage to the "chosen clubs".

The AFL just will claim it is more level as all clubs will have access to their own academy players again.

Maybe 1 in in 20 years St Kilda might score another Top 20 player. But of course the one time our Academy did the player was off limits. Whereas some clubs, might keep hauling in up to 3 Top 20players year in , year out.

AFL proposes change to NGA access for this year’s draft

The AFL is set to walk back its rule limiting clubs' access to their Next Generation Academy players for this year's draft

www.afl.com.au

 

[stavro#4]

So, so much for making drafting actually drafting again.

Those clubs with the "Gold Mine " Academy areas will just maintain their advantage. Maybe 1 in in 20 St Kilda might score another Top 20 player. But of course the one time our Academy did the player was off limits.

AFL proposes change to NGA access for this year’s draft

The AFL is set to walk back its rule limiting clubs' access to their Next Generation Academy players for this year's draft

www.afl.com.au

The issue isn’t the years where a club gets 1 academy pick.

The issue is when they get multiple and can draft them all using ass end picks.

So there will be a partial relaxation of the NGA access and next year a tightening up of cost to acquire these picks.

 

[Remboy]

So, so much for making the draft fairer.

Those clubs with the "Gold Mine " Academy areas will just maintain their advantage as will they have exclusive access to more quality players regardless of where they finish on the ladder. And completing ignore that there is vast difference in the Academy Zones which guarantees an unfair advantage to the "chosen clubs".

The AFL just will claim it is more level as all clubs will have access to their own academy players again.

Maybe 1 in in 20 years St Kilda might score another Top 20 player. But of course the one time our Academy did the player was off limits. Whereas some clubs, might keep hauling in up to 3 Top 20players year in , year out.

AFL proposes change to NGA access for this year’s draft

The AFL is set to walk back its rule limiting clubs' access to their Next Generation Academy players for this year's draft

www.afl.com.au

At least it will guarantee that we get Cole. In a year where we are going to lose a tall defender that can't hurt.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

The issue isn’t the years where a club gets 1 academy pick.

The issue is when they get multiple and can draft them all using ass end picks.

So there will be a partial relaxation of the NGA access and next year a tightening up of cost to acquire these picks.

It makes zero sense making academy access open slather but even less sense doing it this year, while tweaking the cost required next year. The cost required is the part that needs to be fixed and fixed now

 

[SaintsSeptember]

At least it will guarantee that we get Cole. In a year where we are going to lose a tall defender that can't hurt.

Trouble is , you can't just draft a tall late in the draft and assume you'll be set for a tall defender in the future ( ie 3 years plus ).

2014 Draft Profile: Hugh Goddard

Hugh Goddard (Geelong Falcons) Height: 195 cm Weight: 93 kg Position: Key defender/forward Strengths: Athleticism, versatility, booming kick Areas of improvement: Inconsistent Player comparison: Sam Day/Lachlan Keeffe Hugh Goddard is a top 10 pick who has dropped in draft consideration after...

central.rookieme.com

Oscar Clavarino

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Oscar Clavarino is a rebounding defender who fills the hole in defence well. He is good overhead and has good skills over short distances, but has question marks over his confidence."

central.rookieme.com

Oscar Adams

central.rookieme.com

James Van Es Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

 

[Joffaboy]

The issue isn’t the years where a club gets 1 academy pick.

The issue is when they get multiple and can draft them all using ass end picks.

So there will be a partial relaxation of the NGA access and next year a tightening up of cost to acquire these picks.

I think it is as fair as it can be. Some clubs traded in good faith within the rules in place for this year. Let everyone have a go at their NGA's and let everyone know that the rules for getting them will be much tougher next year.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[St Neil]

Good to see Twomey with big wraps for Adrian Cole. Our lockdown fullback NGA pick.

Said he was close to getting a spot in Twomeys top 30 phantom guide.

Didn’t Twomey also mention Lennox Hoffman as a potential top 30 pick?

 

[pebblesofsand]

The issue isn’t the years where a club gets 1 academy pick.

The issue is when they get multiple and can draft them all using ass end picks.

So there will be a partial relaxation of the NGA access and next year a tightening up of cost to acquire these picks.

I don't think they have announced all the changes just yet.

The final arrangements for F/S, Academy drafting (including concessions, draft pick restrictions, a rejigged F/S points system etc) won't be known until next month.