List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Sizzlepack]

Also got to remember Schoenberg has come back from an Achilles. It’s one of the more significant injuries you can get. I would expect him to be much better next year


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I'm not confident it'll work out for Harry (sadly), but I also don't see any point in paying him out this year. There's just no utility to that.

 

[Mutineer]

We will only make 5 changes tops. 1/2 free agents/trades and 3 picks in the draft



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With the depth in this draft I think there's going to be some pretty decent prospects available in the rookie draft, the problem there is some we'd likely move on have at least a year on their contracts. I'd really like to rookie draft Ruckman big unit Flynn Penry who has flown under the radar this season due to injury only resuming a couple of weeks ago and immediately dominated games at APS, Coates Talent League and on the weekend for his hometown team the Cobden Bombers Seniors in the strong Hampden Football League.

 

[Crows I Am]

We do need to cull a few though or we'll end up with a massive list squeeze again.

Sloane - retired
Parnell - delisted
Himmelberg - trade/FA
One of Gollant/Burgess - delisted
McHenry - delisted

If Berry stays, I'd be cutting Schoenberg.

Bond did seem like the other option to delist, but looks like he will be safe now. Which means there may end up someone getting unlucky and getting moved on who may have previously been considered safe. We do like to move players to the rookie list before we get rid of them completely so maybe that happens again this year.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How much tall timber will we be prepared to clear in one year?

Keane and Himmelberg potentially going.

Burgess, Gollant, Strachan, Borlase all no guarantee of being there next season. Could be replaced by draftees but you'd think it would be rare for a tall draftee to be able to provide cover in Year 1.

 

[Sizzlepack]

If the reported interest from club and player is real, and we do have a list squeeze, maybe we trade Keane to Collingwood. I'd probably prefer to keep him, but depending on what he nets us, it could enable us to make more beneficial movies in the off-season.

 

[Scorpus]

How much tall timber will we be prepared to clear in one year?

Keane and Himmelberg potentially going.

Burgess, Gollant, Strachan, Borlase all no guarantee of being there next season. Could be replaced by draftees but you'd think it would be rare for a tall draftee to be able to provide cover in Year 1.

Outside our AFL best 22 we currently have:

2 KPDs: Worrell (injured), Borlase
4 KPFs: Himmelberg, Burgess, Gollant, T. Murray
1 ruck: Strachan

I think we can pretty safely drop one forward from the list with no impact. Himmelberg effectively replaced by T. Murray as our depth forward/ruck

With Tyler Welsh coming in we could also drop a second KPF, one of Burgess or Gollant. In this instance I would actually keep Burgess over Gollant given Burgess' versatility (plays multiple positions poorly instead of one position poorly) and lack of trade value. Maybe we get something for Gollant?

If we retain Keane I would delist Borlase and draft another developing KPD in the late/rookie part of the draft. If we lose Keane or there is a risk of losing Keane at the end of next year, it's probably best to retain Borlase while also drafting that developing defender

Assuming these list changes we'd end up with one ruck (O'Brien) and two forward/rucks (Thilthorpe, Murray) on the list. If we delist Strachan we probably need to target a ready to go ruck (also to potentially replace ROB) then draft a second fresh young ruckman to develop.

 

[Carn The Texan]

Sholl and Cook have extended for 2 years

Edit: Link attached

Crows duo re-sign

Both have signed extensions through to the end of 2026

www.afc.com.au

 

[Sizzlepack]

Sholl and Cook 2-year extensions: https://www.afc.com.au/news/1602927

 

[Mutineer]

Outside our AFL best 22 we currently have:

2 KPDs: Worrell (injured), Borlase
4 KPFs: Himmelberg, Burgess, Gollant, T. Murray
1 ruck: Strachan

I think we can pretty safely drop one forward from the list with no impact. Himmelberg effectively replaced by T. Murray as our depth forward/ruck

With Tyler Welsh coming in we could also drop a second KPF, one of Burgess or Gollant. In this instance I would actually keep Burgess over Gollant given Burgess' versatility (plays multiple positions poorly instead of one position poorly) and lack of trade value. Maybe we get something for Gollant?

If we retain Keane I would delist Borlase and draft another developing KPD in the late/rookie part of the draft. If we lose Keane or there is a risk of losing Keane at the end of next year, it's probably best to retain Borlase while also drafting that developing defender

Assuming these list changes we'd end up with one ruck (O'Brien) and two forward/rucks (Thilthorpe, Murray) on the list. If we delist Strachan we probably need to target a ready to go ruck (also to potentially replace ROB) then draft a second fresh young ruckman to develop.

I'd be keeping Gollant over Burgess if push comes to shove, a 23 year old vs a 29 year old in 2025...that's of course if both are out of contract year's end. I can see no reason why Gollant can't be reinvented as a defender/swingman the same as what Burgess is currently classed as apparently. In fact if both are out of contract I think it's a no brainer.

 

[Vader]

Outside our AFL best 22 we currently have:

2 KPDs: Worrell (injured), Borlase
4 KPFs: Himmelberg, Burgess, Gollant, T. Murray
1 ruck: Strachan

I think we can pretty safely drop one forward from the list with no impact. Himmelberg effectively replaced by T. Murray as our depth forward/ruck

With Tyler Welsh coming in we could also drop a second KPF, one of Burgess or Gollant. In this instance I would actually keep Burgess over Gollant given Burgess' versatility (plays multiple positions poorly instead of one position poorly) and lack of trade value. Maybe we get something for Gollant?

If we retain Keane I would delist Borlase and draft another developing KPD in the late/rookie part of the draft. If we lose Keane or there is a risk of losing Keane at the end of next year, it's probably best to retain Borlase while also drafting that developing defender

Assuming these list changes we'd end up with one ruck (O'Brien) and two forward/rucks (Thilthorpe, Murray) on the list. If we delist Strachan we probably need to target a ready to go ruck (also to potentially replace ROB) then draft a second fresh young ruckman to develop.

The problem with this assessment is that we're looking at losing AT LEAST 3 of the KPFs - Walker (ret), Himmelberg (FA to GWS), and one of Burgess/Gollant (delist).

That leaves us with Welsh (who will be a 3rd tall, not a KPF), Gollant/Burgess (whoever survives), and T Murray - and a Walker-sized hole in the best 22 needing to be filled.

Defence is less of an issue, even if Keane does request a trade to Collingwood.

We definitely need to draft another ruckman, regardless of whether or not Strachan is retained. Both ROB & Strachan are 29, and we're already 2 years behind the game with our succession planning.

 

[Vader]

I'd be keeping Gollant over Burgess if push comes to shove, a 23 year old vs a 29 year old in 2025...that's of course if both are out of contract year's end. I can see no reason why Gollant can't be reinvented as a defender/swingman the same as wwhat Burgess is currently classed as apparently. In fact if both are out of contract I think it's a no brainer.

The big unknown here is the length of the Burgess contract. The club has never made public whether his contract was for 1, 2, or even 3 years.

Gollant is definitely out of contract, but Burgess may not be - and probably isn't, given that we traded for him, and it's unlikely he would have agreed to the trade if we were only offering a 12-month contract.

If Burgess was given 2 years (as is likely for any player traded in), then it becomes much harder to justify retaining Gollant (even on the rookie list). Having both Burgess & Gollant on the list in 2025 is untenable, given their abject failure at AFL level this year.

I agree that we should keep Gollant if both are out of contract... but what do you suggest if Burgess is contracted for 2025?

 

[ClaudeCurlsCrow]

The problem with this assessment is that we're looking at losing AT LEAST 3 of the KPFs - Walker (ret), Himmelberg (FA to GWS), and one of Burgess/Gollant (delist).

That leaves us with Welsh (who will be a 3rd tall, not a KPF), Gollant/Burgess (whoever survives), and T Murray - and a Walker-sized hole in the best 22 needing to be filled.

Defence is less of an issue, even if Keane does request a trade to Collingwood.

We definitely need to draft another ruckman, regardless of whether or not Strachan is retained. Both ROB & Strachan are 29, and we're already 2 years behind the game with our succession planning.

Strachan contract expires 2025.

So he will be staying another year along with Rob, unless we trade both or payout both.

 

[ClaudeCurlsCrow]

The big unknown here is the length of the Burgess contract. The club has never made public whether his contract was for 1, 2, or even 3 years.

Gollant is definitely out of contract, but Burgess may not be - and probably isn't, given that we traded for him, and it's unlikely he would have agreed to the trade if we were only offering a 12-month contract.

If Burgess was given 2 years (as is likely for any player traded in), then it becomes much harder to justify retaining Gollant (even on the rookie list). Having both Burgess & Gollant on the list in 2025 is untenable, given their abject failure at AFL level this year.

I agree that we should keep Gollant if both are out of contract... but what do you suggest if Burgess is contracted for 2025?

use Gollant as trade currency.

he is probably worth a 3rd round pick

 

[glengowan]

I think the penny has dropped with Connor Ballenden this season. Has been outstanding as a CHF/back up ruck. Big unit at 200cm. Similar to Himmelberg in terms of agility. With Burgess and Gollant seemingly below AFL standard, Himmelberg perhaps off with free agency, Tex on his last legs and Welsh a 1st year draftee, at 25 years old I think he'd be a good acquisition to our list. I wouldn't have thought he was quite up to the level previous to this season, but he is now and a good age.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

Biggest names still on the market as rivals eye lucrative raids — AFL Trade State of Play

Biggest names still on the market and where they could land — AFL Trade State of Play

www.foxsports.com.au

Still has us in the mix for both Cummings and Perryman....

 

[GreyCrow]

Dont overpay for Perryman
Dont even fix a price

 

[Vader]

use Gollant as trade currency.

he is probably worth a 3rd round pick

Why would any club give up anything for him? He's likely to be available for free, as a DFA, and even then I doubt he finds any buyers. He just hasn't shown anything to suggest that he has a long (or even medium) term future at the AFL level.

 

[Mutineer]

The big unknown here is the length of the Burgess contract. The club has never made public whether his contract was for 1, 2, or even 3 years.

Gollant is definitely out of contract, but Burgess may not be - and probably isn't, given that we traded for him, and it's unlikely he would have agreed to the trade if we were only offering a 12-month contract.

If Burgess was given 2 years (as is likely for any player traded in), then it becomes much harder to justify retaining Gollant (even on the rookie list). Having both Burgess & Gollant on the list in 2025 is untenable, given their abject failure at AFL level this year.

I agree that we should keep Gollant if both are out of contract... but what do you suggest if Burgess is contracted for 2025?

I'd keep Gollant either way if it's a choice, I don't know how others feel but Burgess I thought would be good depth but he's certainly not been as good as I expected even at SANFL level.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I remember Bris stole Brandon Ryan from the Hawks last year after just half a season on the list - could we do the same to the Lions and steal Luke Beecken?

Still think his run and carry would fill a need, looks to be performing well in the VFL too

 

[ClaudeCurlsCrow]

mhmm so Vader says no one will even take Gollant because he is not AFL standard and then Mutineer says he rather keep Gollant and Burgess looks bad even at SANFL.

might as well delist both and get some young bloods in.

 

[Soggy2112]

You either play a capable ruck - someone who gets around the ground, takes marks and acts as another midfielder - or you play one short.

Lumbering types getting hitouts are a waste of space.

I think this is where we don’t give ROB enough credit. He looks incredibly uncoordinated, however, for most of his career he’s been ranked highly in tackles, contested marks and clearances.
He’s not just a dinosaur that wins hit outs.

Even still, why does what you say justify spending a large amount of cap to get English. Ruck is just not that important of a position, and you can get good options quite cheaply, you just need to be willing to invest time and a couple list spots (which we haven’t for some reason).

 

[ringo200]

Also got to remember Schoenberg has come back from an Achilles. It’s one of the more significant injuries you can get. I would expect him to be much better next year


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Wonder if it's a coincidence that Jones, Schoenberg, Petty all had significant similar ish injuries last year and all have had much poorer than expected years this year.

 

[Vader]

mhmm so Vader says no one will even take Gollant because he is not AFL standard and then Mutineer says he rather keep Gollant and Burgess looks bad even at SANFL.

might as well delist both and get some young bloods in.

I have no objections, other than it leaving us short of even sub-standard depth in the KPF department.

Mutineer is suggesting that Gollant might have value as a defender. Lord knows he's useless in the forward line at AFL level. I gather they've been trying him in defence in the SANFL, but I haven't been watching our SANFL games. Maybe he could have a future as a defender, in which case it would be worth persevering.

 

[Mutineer]

I remember Bris stole Brandon Ryan from the Hawks last year after just half a season on the list - could we do the same to the Lions and steal Luke Beecken?

Still think his run and carry would fill a need, looks to be performing well in the VFL too

Wouldn't that push Oscar Ryan even further back?

Surely he's shown enough to suggest he'll be around the mark next year with a full preseason under his belt.

We could get really progressive and draft Tobie Travalgia who really does look a very very special talent?

 

[Danger in Texas]

Wouldn't that push Oscar Ryan even further back?

Surely he's shown enough to suggest he'll be around the mark next year with a full preseason under his belt.

We could get really progressive and draft Tobie Travalgia who really does look a very very special talent?

Ryan to me projects as a long-term defender, from what I’ve seen he can genuinely play two ways so would be best to use him in the back six. Reckon Beecken could be useful on a wing. Just trying to find more ways to add speed to the squad, other than Rankine there’s not a lot of speedy types in the 22 as of right now