List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[FR0GGY]

To be fair, it looked like he didn't train there all year in the PS and got stuck there because he was tall. I'm not saying that with a PS and running patterns etc I want him in the F 50 anytime soon just the kid got offered a game out of position and put his hand up. If nature would have blessed him with 2 inches extra height or a decent turn of speed, he'd be a first 22 player because he leaves it all on the field.

Imagine where you’d be with 2 extra inches

 

[jackster83]

Imagine where you’d be with 2 extra inches

Watch out, the phallus police are on their way.

 

[FR0GGY]

Watch out, the phallus police are on their way.

they coming for me?

 

[Soggy2112]

By the time they won a flag im certain Gawn was on big coin himself

So what’s the difference?
At that moment of their list build it’s a ruck on high salary who cost pick 34 and years of development vs the prospect of 1 on god salary who asa FA costs nothing

I agree we shouldn’t be making English the highest paid player in the comp but a high salary that’s relevant to his standard taking into account alternatives there may (or not) be and not needing to trade for can’t e discounted or scoffed at

The amount you have to spend to keep a player you have drafted and developed is generally a fair bit less than you have to spend to shake a player free.

Grundy has added to Sydney

He has, but all they gave up was pick 46 and what will likely end up being pick 35-45. I’m fairly sure Collingwood are still paying a good chunk of his salary.

If someone of that quality becomes available for cheap I’d be all for it, but I just don’t see it as being wise to spend $1m or so on a ruck. It just isn’t that important of a position.

 

[cleanhands]

The amount you have to spend to keep a player you have drafted and developed is generally a fair bit less than you have to spend to shake a player free.




He has, but all they gave up was pick 46 and what will likely end up being pick 35-45. I’m fairly sure Collingwood are still paying a good chunk of his salary.

If someone of that quality becomes available for cheap I’d be all for it, but I just don’t see it as being wise to spend $1m or so on a ruck. It just isn’t that important of a position.

why are clubs paying what they are for ruckman then, half the ruckman in the comp would be in the top Half dozen paid at their club and some even captaining their club, some must think it’s important

 

[Soggy2112]

why are clubs paying what they are for ruckman then, half the ruckman in the comp would be in the top Half dozen paid at their club and some even captaining their club, some must think it’s important

And I think the results clearly show that they aren’t actually that important.

 

[cleanhands]

And I think the results clearly show that they aren’t actually that important.

Seems to me clubs think they are

 

[Soggy2112]

Seems to me clubs think they are

So because a club does something, it’s inherently a good idea?

In the past several years, how many top 4 sides have had a genuinely top level ruck?

Interestingly, Collingwood won a flag the year after getting rid of Grundy.

Port finished top, the year after reading Ryder.

The Eagles won a flag, despite Nic Nat doing an ACL.

Seems like the McInerney and Nankervis types are more than good enough to be successful, and if you can’t acquire one of those through later picks, the rookie draft, or a cheap trade, then you shouldn’t be a list manager.

 

[spenze]

Imagine where you’d be with 2 extra inches

Bakers dozen...

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

What do people think of Ned Reeves? Earlier this year ROB won the hit outs (as usual) but Hawthorn killed us in the clearances. Ned is 210 cm and 25 years of age. Since the Hawks recruited Lloyd Meek, who is only 26, Reeves will be the Hawks version of Strachan unless Meek is injured.

Reeves should be relatively low cost and would be competitive in ruck against the Big Boys. He may not do a lot less than ROB around the ground. Am I missing something?

 

[spenze]

Watch out, the phallus police are on their way.

 

[George Kramer]

Imagine where you’d be with 2 extra inches

My height

 

[rabidcrow]

And I think the results clearly show that they aren’t actually that important.

So who are the top teams this year?

Grundy has been sensational for the Swans - definitely an AA candidate
DeKonig has been great for Carlton
Darcy and Jackson have been a standout combination for Freo - making them the clearance kings

The top teams all have an above average ruckman

In terms of ROB my argument with him is because he can’t be involved in link up play around stoppage because he can’t move or handball in traffic he actually is a negative to our ball movement. Getting someone who can play - not just have great endurance and physically ruck all day - would be a big lift to our midfield.
We saw it a bit with Strachan - but unfortunately he can only run half a game



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[AFC979810]

My height

I didn't know spenze was 5'3.

 

[AFC979810]

Seems to me clubs think they are

I think all clubs agree playing a ruck man is very very important. No better example than our final against Essendon 15 years ago.

The quality of the ruck man is the discussion and I think its pretty obvious Clubs don't really think they are that important.

Of the past 7 drafts - the 70 players taken top 10 - only 2 of them were ruck man. If that position was more important clubs would be investing more heavily.

why are clubs paying what they are for ruckman then, half the ruckman in the comp would be in the top Half dozen paid at their club and some even captaining their club, some must think it’s important

There were 5 ruck man in the top 100 paid players in 2023. All 5 of those teams combined to win ZERO finals.

Clubs dont pay a lot for ruck man. Look at the Richmond & Hawthorn dynasty.

Obviously its better to have a better ruck man than a shit ruck man, but if you are building a list it is the last position to worry about.

 

[AFC979810]

So who are the top teams this year?

Grundy has been sensational for the Swans - definitely an AA candidate
DeKonig has been great for Carlton
Darcy and Jackson have been a standout combination for Freo - making them the clearance kings

Grundy has been great. Very astute pickup for the Swans and the perfect example of a cherry on top. Sydney was 12 months out from a grand final when they brought in him. That team is stacked.

Dekonig is a decent ruck man. They made the prelim last year and he wasnt top 10 in their best and fairest.

The top teams all have an above average ruckman

Collingwood won a flag last year with Mason Cox as their ruck man. That really should show you the importance of ruck man.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

What do people think of Ned Reeves? Earlier this year ROB won the hit outs (as usual) but Hawthorn killed us in the clearances. Ned is 210 cm and 25 years of age. Since the Hawks recruited Lloyd Meek, who is only 26, Reeves will be the Hawks version of Strachan unless Meek is injured.

Reeves should be relatively low cost and would be competitive in ruck against the Big Boys. He may not do a lot less than ROB around the ground. Am I missing something?

Meh, ok tap ruckman who covers at a non afl level standard.

 

[Captain Furious]

Collingwood won a flag last year with Mason Cox as their ruck man. That really should show you the importance of ruck man.

Well kind of but not really. Cameron was their ruck through the season, Cox just took more contests on GF day cause McStay was out and Cameron was needed forward. Cox is one of the biggest wastes of space on a football field and I don't think they get to GF day if he was their main guy. Cameron was very good for them last year. By that thinking, key forward isn't an important position because they won a flag with Mihocek as their main guy.

And I think the results clearly show that they aren’t actually that important.

Depends what results you look at - the top 4 teams on the ladder all have high quality ruckman. Max Gawn has been a key to keeping Melbourne as a contender in recent years. I agree that the actual tap work of rucks is vastly overrated but we have first hand evidence of what it looks like when the other ruckman is uncompetitive - Grundy and Nankervis being BOG when Strachan was in. If Nankervis isn't allowed to guide the ball wherever he wanted that night, we win that match.

Where ruckman become important is when they can be something beyond a ball tapper. Eg. TDK and Grundy playing as an extra mid. Big O being able to play as a legitimate marking forward who kicks goals. Max being able to do both. Unfortunately both our rucks are just there to tap the ball and then are basically liabilities the rest of the game. If we can get a ruck who can play a secondary role (run, mark and /or kick) then we'll effectively have an extra player on the ground to what we have now - along with an advantage over the teams that are still playing giant potatoes.

 

[AFC979810]

Well kind of but not really. Cameron was their ruck through the season, Cox just took more contests on GF day cause McStay was out and Cameron was needed forward. Cox is one of the biggest wastes of space on a football field and I don't think they get to GF day if he was their main guy. Cameron was very good for them last year. By that thinking, key forward isn't an important position because they won a flag with Mihocek as their main guy.

First final - Cox -34 Cameron 14
Prelim - Cox - 27 Cameron 18
Grand Final - Cox - 31 Cameron 19

Cox was their primary ruck man through the finals.

Yes you can use Collingwood as an example of winning a flag without a key forward - but with the exception of Melbourne and Collingwood all the flag winning teams from the past 15 years had them.

In the past 15 years only one side has had a dominant ruckman and that was Melbourne in 2021.

Depends what results you look at - the top 4 teams on the ladder all have high quality ruckman. Max Gawn has been a key to keeping Melbourne as a contender in recent years. I agree that the actual tap work of rucks is vastly overrated but we have first hand evidence of what it looks like when the other ruckman is uncompetitive - Grundy and Nankervis being BOG when Strachan was in. If Nankervis isn't allowed to guide the ball wherever he wanted that night, we win that match.

Look at the last 15 premiership winners and see how important ruckman are.

Where ruckman become important is when they can be something beyond a ball tapper. Eg. TDK and Grundy playing as an extra mid. Big O being able to play as a legitimate marking forward who kicks goals. Max being able to do both. Unfortunately both our rucks are just there to tap the ball and then are basically liabilities the rest of the game. If we can get a ruck who can play a secondary role (run, mark and /or kick) then we'll effectively have an extra player on the ground to what we have now - along with an advantage over the teams that are still playing giant potatoes.

Is Big O the ruckman from Brisbane? The guy with 7 marks inside 50 and 6 goals this year?

Look at a better ruckman is a good thing, but its not how you build a list. Using Sydney as an example - A ruckman upgrade is how you go from being a grand finalist in 2022 to winning it all in 2024.

 

[FR0GGY]

First final - Cox -34 Cameron 14
Prelim - Cox - 27 Cameron 18
Grand Final - Cox - 31 Cameron 19

Cox was their primary ruck man through the finals.

Yes you can use Collingwood as an example of winning a flag without a key forward - but with the exception of Melbourne and Collingwood all the flag winning teams from the past 15 years had them.

In the past 15 years only one side has had a dominant ruckman and that was Melbourne in 2021.





Look at the last 15 premiership winners and see how important ruckman are.



Is Big O the ruckman from Brisbane? The guy with 7 marks inside 50 and 6 goals this year?

Look at a better ruckman is a good thing, but its not how you build a list. Using Sydney as an example - A ruckman upgrade is how you go from being a grand finalist in 2022 to winning it all in 2024.

Stick a decent ruckman another good midfielder and a better coach and watch us soar.

 

[FR0GGY]

Unfortunately both our rucks are just there to tap the ball and then are basically liabilities the rest of the game

Agreed with most your your post, however I’d say Strachan was a liability in the ruck but was decent around the ground, whenever he actually got the ball he looked like a footballer where as Rob you close your eyes every time.

 

[Captain Furious]

First final - Cox -34 Cameron 14
Prelim - Cox - 27 Cameron 18
Grand Final - Cox - 31 Cameron 19

Cox was their primary ruck man through the finals.

Yes you can use Collingwood as an example of winning a flag without a key forward - but with the exception of Melbourne and Collingwood all the flag winning teams from the past 15 years had them.

In the past 15 years only one side has had a dominant ruckman and that was Melbourne in 2021.

Look at the last 15 premiership winners and see how important ruckman are.


Is Big O the ruckman from Brisbane? The guy with 7 marks inside 50 and 6 goals this year?

Look at a better ruckman is a good thing, but its not how you build a list. Using Sydney as an example - A ruckman upgrade is how you go from being a grand finalist in 2022 to winning it all in 2024.

A little harsh on the Mumford, Nankervis, Hale, Jolly type premiership rucks - they may not be Gawn like stars but all very good and very effective players. Certainly not even close to 'the least important players on the field'. I don't think anyone's suggesting we build a list around a ruck - we already have a list so not really necessary. But if we can focus on a ball playing ruckman who essentially gives us an extra player on the field, we automatically become a much better side. If we can do that by paying a bit more but not using draft picks, then that is ideal and it uses what we have more of and not what we have less of.

 

[Mostyn]

why are clubs paying what they are for ruckman then, half the ruckman in the comp would be in the top Half dozen paid at their club and some even captaining their club, some must think it’s important

They pay because they're talls, not because they're rucks.

Clubs are paying for what players can do around the ground, not winning hitouts

 

[Soggy2112]

The point is not that a good ruck can’t be a positive influence, or that we should not be looking to find one.

The point is they simply do not have the influence on the game that warrants spending $1m on one.

. Unfortunately both our rucks are just there to tap the ball and then are basically liabilities the rest of the game.

Through most of his career ROB has been a good contested and intercept marker and has been excellent in tackling and winning clearances at the stoppage. He’s lost that at the moment but it’s very possible he’s just having a down year. It’s not fair to call him a liability.

 

[Freshj]

I haven't watched a heap of Collingwood this year, but going on previous, I wouldn't mind having a good look at Beau McCreery. South Aussie, good speed, creative. Looks like a great replacement for Murphy