List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[1970crow]

If a contracted Laird, ROB or Butts wanted out, what sort of pick ranges do you think they'd get?

25-35.

 

[119others]

I feel exactly the same but reversed. Why would you waste a match winner as a key forward when they could be in the middle influencing the game for its entirety. Melbourne and Collingwood have just shown that you can win flags without key forwards, they generally average 2 goals a game max. In the modern system based game they are very easily replaced.

Not sure of this logic. Pies also had a second rate ruckman last year who was 'adequate'. When is the last time a lead ruckman has been drafted at pick 2? Definitely most value is clunking marks and kicking 3-4 goals in big games

 

[1970crow]

So there’s a world where Port could land Luko, Perryman and Cumming

Are they like Carlton and Geelong in that they have endless cap space?

Where did you have Cats finishing this year?

 

[1970crow]

Cause the Lions gave him a 4 year deal for some reason. I don't think 'Berg is getting more than 2.

Length of the deal is a recent addition to the calculation, it wasn't when they took him.

 

[119others]

25-35.

Cant see any team paying that for Laird on 750k+

We would need to give him away for free (Bowes style) AND throw in a second rounder (or else pay 33-50% of his salary at another club). Laird says no anyway

Agree Butts could be a valuable trade chip getting something in the 20's next year if we went that way

 

[Crow till I die]

I feel exactly the same but reversed. Why would you waste a match winner as a key forward when they could be in the middle influencing the game for its entirety. Melbourne and Collingwood have just shown that you can win flags without key forwards, they generally average 2 goals a game max. In the modern system based game they are very easily replaced.

Then look at Geelong, have not had a dominant ruck for years but them key forwards seem to always help them home and here we are, another prelim final. I'd argue mobile key forwards that can dominate and kick goals are right up there with elite mids as the key players in a team

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Reckon what happens this pre-season is we get two of Cumming, Luko, and a pick in the 20’s

What would we prefer? For me it’d be Cumming and a 20’s pick, we can address multiple needs without giving up our F1

I agree with what you have to say. I’m leaning towards no with Luko, I don’t know how we would fit TT, Luko , Fog and Walker and eventually Welsh if he does reach his potential. But also the amount GC would want and the salary would be a large expense and he’s not worth that imo

If we had a pick in the 20’s come draft night, I would like for us to get a developing ruck or small forward

 

[Soggy2112]

not sure anyone touches him. already lots of negative publicity with members complaining at Essendon when Scott mentioned generic things like he could play again, get another chance etc.

In a couple of years, IF everything tones down and he has genuinely changed (which isnt overly likely IMO but some people do change esp as young men mature) then he probably will be given the all clear by the AFL to play again. Just not at this stage as too early for a repeat offender

He’d have to show significant evidence that he is working to make amends. Simply staying out of trouble for a year isn’t enough.

 

[119others]

They can't have much room.

Their best players are in peak salary years, and they've been paying big to bring players there.

lots of media this year saying they are one of the clubs along with us, Saints and Dons that have a large capacity still in the salary cap so not sure I can agree here

EDIT - their 2 highest paid players are likely to be JHF (contracted for another few years from memory) and Butters going forward. Butters will be getting a MASSIVE 1m+ / year offer to either stay in the swamps or else to move back to VIC when hitting FA status in a couple of years

 

[119others]

He’d have to show significant evidence that he is working to make amends. Simply staying out of trouble for a year isn’t enough.

yep agreed. and one year likely isnt enough either

 

[1970crow]

Rowey said this morning that Ned maybe to the rookie list, what an idiotic move that would be

Idiotic, but not unexpected.

 

[1970crow]

sorry mate not sure I understand. Who can we get for 30-40? I assume you mean ANB not Luko

EDIT rereading previous posts I think you mean Luko? If so, I think its less than 1% chance we get him for a pick later than 30. At best a F2 (which obv is uncertain where that lands)

You said power need him more especially because we have Welsh coming. Welsh is a 2nd to 3rd round talent, him incoming should have zero bearing on any other list decision.

 

[Cromulant]

Idiotic, but not unexpected.

Rowey misses the mark a fair bit, but he does have close ties with Ned.

 

[1970crow]

You're not serious, the fact that teams that showed even a passing interest quickly backed out should tell you he's damaged goods from an AFL point of view.

It's predicated upon the AFL re-registering him. If they do that, then people with more knowledge than me have assessed him as being able to return to the game. In that circumstance, for a rookie pick, I'd take him on. As long as a further transgression isn't going to tie us up in argument and cause us to negotiate a settlement in order to terminate him.

 

[119others]

You said power need him more especially because we have Welsh coming. Welsh is a 2nd to 3rd round talent, him incoming should have zero bearing on any other list decision.

all good, yes welsh quite likely to fall in that range. was just on another page. not sure if welsh can play another position though besides the same as Luko - third tall forward or possibly roaming hff. your thoughts? either way, unfortunately seems like Welsh isnt going to be next big hope as a FS that we were all hoping for

 

[1970crow]

Cant see any team paying that for Laird on 750k+

We would need to give him away for free (Bowes style) AND throw in a second rounder (or else pay 33-50% of his salary at another club). Laird says no anyway

Agree Butts could be a valuable trade chip getting something in the 20's next year if we went that way

Think it's a given we'd have to pay some/all of Lairds salary to get that pick. I'd do it, we're not contending yet and multiple seconds can be bundled easier these days due to bidding.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Where did you have Cats finishing this year?

What’s going on here

 

[FR0GGY]

Not sure of this logic. Pies also had a second rate ruckman last year who was 'adequate'. When is the last time a lead ruckman has been drafted at pick 2? Definitely most value is clunking marks and kicking 3-4 goals in big games

Darcy Cameron is hardly second rate.

 

[Jarman3]

Darcy Cameron is hardly second rate.

Probably just seems that way to us because we've been spoiled by getting to watch ROB every week for so long.

 

[119others]

Darcy Cameron is hardly second rate.

I doubt he would be in the top 50% of paid ruckmen in the league? do you agree?

not getting into the semantics game again here but the SUBSTANCE of what I am saying is he is not a high profile leading ruckmen nor dominates many statistical categories for a ruckman (IIRC but very happy to stand corrected if this isnt correct). Many here, myself included, believe unless you have a truly exceptional ruckman (Gawn, Rehn) that its a relatively low value position - do you agree?

AFL: We've picked the league's 10 best ruckmen for 2024

They're the biggest and some of the toughest, but who's currently the best? We select the AFL's 10 best ruckmen for season 2024.

onlysports.com.au

 

[jackster83]

Then look at Geelong, have not had a dominant ruck for years but them key forwards seem to always help them home and here we are, another prelim final. I'd argue mobile key forwards that can dominate and kick goals are right up there with elite mids as the key players in a team

We definitely need another ruck though.

We're currently stuck with a 29 year old who has been dropped twice in the last two years and has failed to finish in the top 10 of the B&F and a backup ruck who should have been delisted three years ago.

 

[119others]

Rowey said this morning that Ned maybe to the rookie list, what an idiotic move that would be

the real concern - besides the stupidity of keeping Mc H - is that means we may have missed most of our trade targets if we fill up a place with Ned.

Only getting ANB is a clear FAIL - need at least 1 of of Luko, Cummin or someone else decent who isnt currently on our BF radar. But not bed wetting yet - still got another few weeks for things to work out

 

[Crow till I die]

We definitely need another ruck though.

We're currently stuck with a 29 year old who has been dropped twice in the last two years and has failed to finish in the top 10 of the B&F and a backup ruck who should have been delisted three years ago.

Oh i agree, but don't use thilthorpe there as he will get banged up and we lose our monster mobile pack marking key forward

 

[Hodgy]

Not sure of this logic. Pies also had a second rate ruckman last year who was 'adequate'. When is the last time a lead ruckman has been drafted at pick 2? Definitely most value is clunking marks and kicking 3-4 goals in big games

They are taken that high occasionally. Kreuzer and Nik Nat are recent examples, but in general clubs don’t draft ruckman that high because they are so hard to evaluate as juniors, and they take so long to develop. Look at English, who has taken 6 years and now is a genuine match winner for them. But footy history is littered with ruckman being dominant in successful teams going back to Dean Cox who is still one of my favorite players ever, to Jim Stynes, Max Gawn and Aaron Sandilands, who could all arguably be considered their teams most important player.

 

[Cromulant]

They are taken that high occasionally. Kreuzer and Nik Nat are recent examples, but in general clubs don’t draft ruckman that high because they are so hard to evaluate as juniors, and they take so long to develop. Look at English, who has taken 6 years and now is a genuine match winner for them. But footy history is littered with ruckman being dominant in successful teams going back to Dean Cox who is still one of my favorite players ever, to Jim Stynes, Max Gawn and Aaron Sandilands, who could all arguably be considered their teams most important player.

Go back further, Rehny was a superb ruck and crucial to our flag pushes. Even in 01 when Hawthorn made a prelim he was brilliant in the games he played