Game Day 2024 Mid Season Rookie Draft

[Jeremias]

1. North Melbourne - Geordie Payne
2. Richmond - Jacob Blight
3. West Coast - Jack Hutchinson
4. St Kilda - Max Hall
5. Hawthorn - Jasper Scaife
6. Brisbane - Will McLachlan
7. Adelaide - Toby Murray
8. Western Bulldogs - Kelsey Rypstra
9. Carlton - Cooper Lord
10. Collingwood - Iliro Smit
11. Melbourne - Luker Kentfield
12. Port Adelaide - Logan Evans
13. Essendon - Saad El-Hawli
14. Sydney - Tom Hanily
15. North Melbourne - Brynn Teakle
16. Richmond - Campbell Gray
17. Brisbane - Luke Beecken
18. Adelaide - PASS
19. Collingwood - Ned Long
20. Richmond - PASS
21. Brisbane - Darcy Craven
22. Adelaide - PASS
23. Brisbane - PASS

 

[The_General#1]

Gotta feel for some of these guys that had a heap of hype that missed. Smartt was the early #1 favourite and as it happens so often misses altogether.

 

[tiger_tough]

Happy enough with that. A KPF and a KPD. Campbell Gray caught my eye in the weekend.

Happy to not lose any VFL players too.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Love the bombers pick

Yep, won this draft again. Dodoro still calling the winning shots even after he's retired

 

[halfback dasher]

Genuiny believe we got lucky here

Time will tell

 

[briztoon]

you miss my point - we have a stack of picks. If trading a bundle of those picks (for the draft points required to pick up Academy, Father/Son players) gets us a significant upgrade in the proper draft, i.e. pick 20 to pick 12, that's a far better result for us IMO than picking up players who have already been overlooked at least once and are at the back end of this draft.

The proper draft nerds will be able to explain this better.

I hope the proper draft nerds on your board have explained on your board, that Richmond will likely have to carry most of those picks in to the National Draft for whichever team you are trading with, to make a live draft night trade to move up the board.

If you are eyeing off Brisbane's first round pick, we won't have the list spots available to make the trade before the draft.

And, unless Adelaide make a second half of the season run up the ladder, I reckon they get to use their first pick before having to match a bid on their father son kid. Unless Adelaide trade their first round pick out for a player during trade week.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Yep, won this draft again. Dodoro still calling the winning shots even after he's retired

You’re heaps funny bro

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

didn't need to use it. If the trade capital for a 7th rd pick in November is worth more to clubs needing Academy players, then that's a far better option.

Had this debate on the Carlton board when Agresta told us we were only using one pick.

I don’t see the harm in taking a punt on a player for 6 months if you have a list spot. At the very least you improve your reserves and depth, best case scenario you find a best 22 talent who you sign up for 2025 or longer. When the players nominate they understand it could only be a short stint.

Every club that left a list spot open is effectively going into the second half of the year a player down.

 

[master bate]

Had this debate on the Carlton board when Agresta told us we were only using one pick.

I don’t see the harm in taking a punt on a player for 6 months if you have a list spot. At the very least you improve your reserves and depth, best case scenario you find a best 22 talent who you sign up for 2025 or longer. When the players nominate they understand it could only be a short stint.

Every club that left a list spot open is effectively going into the second half of the year a player down.

Isn't it an additional 20k payment if you don't keep them? Even if that's not in the salary cap or footy cap that's still a decent whack of change.

And just how likely is it to get an immediate difference maker? The only guy I can remember quickly coming in to a good side from the mid season draft was Pickett in the grand final and Pickett was head and shoulders above most MSD players talent wise.

The challenge to relocate a guy, make sure he's physically at the level, teach him the game plan and then stay fit and acclimatise to a new environment is really hard to do within 12 weeks. Not to mention time consuming for the fitness and coaching staff.

I feel like 4 of the 20 picks are even remotely expected to play this year and 2 of them are former AFL listed players one of which in Long was promoted from VFL to AFL listed, so recruiters are really saying there's not many guys we expect can come in and be immediately ready.

Given most of these guys are long term prospects the coach will want more time with them and the recruiter will naturally be inclined to back his MSD choice in. Suddenly you're stuck with depth guys you chose in the middle of a season with limited information on them and on your side.

Keeping a rookie spot free means you start the offseason with a clearer picture and can fill the list strategically with the right combination of depth and fringe talents.

 

[eth-dog]

Isn't it an additional 20k payment if you don't keep them? Even if that's not in the salary cap or footy cap that's still a decent whack of change.

And just how likely is it to get an immediate difference maker? The only guy I can remember quickly coming in to a good side from the mid season draft was Pickett in the grand final and Pickett was head and shoulders above most MSD players talent wise.

The challenge to relocate a guy, make sure he's physically at the level, teach him the game plan and then stay fit and acclimatise to a new environment is really hard to do within 12 weeks. Not to mention time consuming for the fitness and coaching staff.

I feel like 4 of the 20 picks are even remotely expected to play this year and 2 of them are former AFL listed players one of which in Long was promoted from VFL to AFL listed, so recruiters are really saying there's not many guys we expect can come in and be immediately ready.

Given most of these guys are long term prospects the coach will want more time with them and the recruiter will naturally be inclined to back his MSD choice in. Suddenly you're stuck with depth guys you chose in the middle of a season with limited information on them and on your side.

Keeping a rookie spot free means you start the offseason with a clearer picture and can fill the list strategically with the right combination of depth and fringe talents.

Which 6 of Payne, Blight, Hutchinson, Hall, Rypstra, El Hawli, Beecken and Grey are you expecting not to play? Blight and Grey in particular, given Richmond's KPP woes

 

[Lingsface]

Who will play this week?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Isn't it an additional 20k payment if you don't keep them? Even if that's not in the salary cap or footy cap that's still a decent whack of change.

And just how likely is it to get an immediate difference maker? The only guy I can remember quickly coming in to a good side from the mid season draft was Pickett in the grand final and Pickett was head and shoulders above most MSD players talent wise.

The challenge to relocate a guy, make sure he's physically at the level, teach him the game plan and then stay fit and acclimatise to a new environment is really hard to do within 12 weeks. Not to mention time consuming for the fitness and coaching staff.

I feel like 4 of the 20 picks are even remotely expected to play this year and 2 of them are former AFL listed players one of which in Long was promoted from VFL to AFL listed, so recruiters are really saying there's not many guys we expect can come in and be immediately ready.

Given most of these guys are long term prospects the coach will want more time with them and the recruiter will naturally be inclined to back his MSD choice in. Suddenly you're stuck with depth guys you chose in the middle of a season with limited information on them and on your side.

Keeping a rookie spot free means you start the offseason with a clearer picture and can fill the list strategically with the right combination of depth and fringe talents.

All valid points that were raised on the Carlton board.

I wanted us to take McMahon with our second pick who is already in our 2s and imo would play games over the bottom 5 players on our list if it came down to it. Lives in Melbourne, knows the club and players, fills a need and is itching for an opportunity. $20k and half a years rookie wage is a lot to us but not to the clubs unless their actual salary cap is tight.

The original idea of the MSD was to draft ready to go players to cover long term injury and bolster the list for the second half of the year. It has obviously moved away from that and towards taking youngsters which is understandable with some of the talent that slips through year on year but it defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

Imo it is time to expand list sizes and go back to a true rookie list where players can only play if a club has a LTI and they are promoted. 44 players + maybe 5 or 6 who train with the club but only play VFL until promoted, then continue to move towards a proper league wide reserves system. We wouldn’t need the MSD and second tier players would be more ready to go if that were the case.

 

[Jeremias]

Who will play this week?

Don't think any will debut immediately, no club would throw someone straight in unless absolutely desperate.

 

[eth-dog]

All valid points that were raised on the Carlton board.

I wanted us to take McMahon with our second pick who is already in our 2s and imo would play games over the bottom 5 players on our list if it came down to it. Lives in Melbourne, knows the club and players, fills a need and is itching for an opportunity. $20k and half a years rookie wage is a lot to us but not to the clubs unless their actual salary cap is tight.

The original idea of the MSD was to draft ready to go players to cover long term injury and bolster the list for the second half of the year. It has obviously moved away from that and towards taking youngsters which is understandable with some of the talent that slips through year on year but it defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

Imo it is time to expand list sizes and go back to a true rookie list where players can only play if a club has a LTI and they are promoted. 44 players + maybe 5 or 6 who train with the club but only play VFL until promoted, then continue to move towards a proper league wide reserves system. We wouldn’t need the MSD and second tier players would be more ready to go if that were the case.

I think the rookie list as a whole is a bit pointless nowadays tbh. Keep the Category B stuff but as far as Category A rookies, can you tell me the difference between a rookie listed player and senior listed player apart from a little bit of cap relief?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I think the rookie list as a whole is a bit pointless nowadays tbh. Keep the Category B stuff but as far as Category A rookies, can you tell me the difference between a rookie listed player and senior listed player apart from a little bit of cap relief?

There’s no difference when it comes to playing games during the season but the 2 v 1 year deals are still pretty significant. A lot of kids wouldn’t get picked if clubs had to hand them 2 year deals

That can be solved pretty easily though.
3 year deal picks 1-30
2 yr 31-60
1 yr 61+

Wouldn’t even need a rookie draft. Cat B and the pre season selections should stay though.

 

[Lingsface]

Don't think any will debut immediately, no club would throw someone straight in unless absolutely desperate.

Richmond numbers are pretty desperate right?

 

[eth-dog]

There’s no difference when it comes to playing games during the season but the 2 v 1 year deals are still pretty significant. A lot of kids wouldn’t get picked if clubs had to hand them 2 year deals

That can be solved pretty easily though.
3 year deal picks 1-30
2 yr 31-60
1 yr 61+

Wouldn’t even need a rookie draft. Cat B and the pre season selections should stay though.

Similar theory but I go:

First round 3 years
Rounds 2-4 2 years
Rounds 5 onwards 1 year

 

[Jeremias]

Richmond numbers are pretty desperate right?

Not sure even they will be throwing a kid to the wolves straight away.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Isn't it an additional 20k payment if you don't keep them? Even if that's not in the salary cap or footy cap that's still a decent whack of change.

And just how likely is it to get an immediate difference maker? The only guy I can remember quickly coming in to a good side from the mid season draft was Pickett in the grand final and Pickett was head and shoulders above most MSD players talent wise.

The challenge to relocate a guy, make sure he's physically at the level, teach him the game plan and then stay fit and acclimatise to a new environment is really hard to do within 12 weeks. Not to mention time consuming for the fitness and coaching staff.

I feel like 4 of the 20 picks are even remotely expected to play this year and 2 of them are former AFL listed players one of which in Long was promoted from VFL to AFL listed, so recruiters are really saying there's not many guys we expect can come in and be immediately ready.

Given most of these guys are long term prospects the coach will want more time with them and the recruiter will naturally be inclined to back his MSD choice in. Suddenly you're stuck with depth guys you chose in the middle of a season with limited information on them and on your side.

Keeping a rookie spot free means you start the offseason with a clearer picture and can fill the list strategically with the right combination of depth and fringe talents.

Newcombe played quite literally the week or second week after being drafted.

 

[briztoon]

Which 6 of Payne, Blight, Hutchinson, Hall, Rypstra, El Hawli, Beecken and Grey are you expecting not to play? Blight and Grey in particular, given Richmond's KPP woes

Beecken.

Would possibly take another couple of injuries to our halfbacks or wing to even get named as a sub.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Beecken.

Would possibly take another couple of injuries to our halfbacks or wing to even get named as a sub.

I'm sure we picked him for a reason though. There must be something we see in him given we don't really need the depth.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Don't think any will debut immediately, no club would throw someone straight in unless absolutely desperate.

I think Teakle would be a decent chance

 

[master bate]

Newcombe played quite literally the week or second week after being drafted.

Was neither a new environment nor a competitive team. He went from being coached by Sam Mitchell to playing in the seniors for the team Mitchell was about to take over.

 

[master bate]

Which 6 of Payne, Blight, Hutchinson, Hall, Rypstra, El Hawli, Beecken and Grey are you expecting not to play? Blight and Grey in particular, given Richmond's KPP woes

I should've said 5 not 4, but the 5 I have in mind are Blight, Hall, El Hawli, Teakle and if the Pies have more injuries Long. They're the best performed and most seasoned of the state league footballers and going to teams that need them.

Payne will probably play if his steps up to VFL level comfortably but more because North will have a look at him than expectations that he should be ready.

Beecken should push for games but if Brisbane steady they won't expect him to play right away, they still have quality flankers even after the injuries. The other 3 forwards of various shapes and sizes I don't think are straight away ready to go.

Has Gray done anything like an AFL preseason? Even if Richmond are desperate I don't think chucking a young key forward in with limited time in the VFL system is usually wise.

 

[tigs2010]

Has Gray done anything like an AFL preseason? Even if Richmond are desperate I don't think chucking a young key forward in with limited time in the VFL system is usually wise.

Gray would be next to no chance to debut.

 

[master bate]

All valid points that were raised on the Carlton board.

I wanted us to take McMahon with our second pick who is already in our 2s and imo would play games over the bottom 5 players on our list if it came down to it. Lives in Melbourne, knows the club and players, fills a need and is itching for an opportunity. $20k and half a years rookie wage is a lot to us but not to the clubs unless their actual salary cap is tight.

The original idea of the MSD was to draft ready to go players to cover long term injury and bolster the list for the second half of the year. It has obviously moved away from that and towards taking youngsters which is understandable with some of the talent that slips through year on year but it defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

Imo it is time to expand list sizes and go back to a true rookie list where players can only play if a club has a LTI and they are promoted. 44 players + maybe 5 or 6 who train with the club but only play VFL until promoted, then continue to move towards a proper league wide reserves system. We wouldn’t need the MSD and second tier players would be more ready to go if that were the case.

I think I agree with that.

I'd probably structure lists of 36 AFL players. 2-3 Cat B. 4-6 Developmental players, your classic younger rookie types, talls, rucks, guys taken outside the main draft. Whether that needs its own list or not depends on if you want to use it as a way for clubs to give out 1 year deals and protect the main draft for 2 year deals.

Then a Supplementary list of somewhere between 5-10 priority part time state league contracts who you can elevate in case of long term injury.

Could even have a system where you can trade your Supplementary list guys up until the mid year, so if you lose a ruck or a key tall and you don't have the right guy in your state league system you can sling a pick to a club to give a guy an opportunity.

The biggest downside is you're killing the state leagues if you widen that number too much. But the trade off is you're keeping more ready to go guys involved in AFL reserve clubs and you encourage clubs to keep their teams strong.