Training 2024 Pre-Season discussion

[Mattttty]

Not everything, but if you play premierships like Dusty did, not a lot more to say. Sadly, he was utterly brilliant in every GF I watched, and he is in my top 10 of all time.
Selwood very close.
But for sheer individual brilliance, he was not the sort of player that had ultimate wow factor and would make me go to a game week after week. Buddy Franklin very very close inho.

I agree his finals performances are notable. Amazing, really. Being able to step up on the big stages is huge and the mark of an exceptional player. But if his team had lost and he'd still performed as well (a little like GAS did in 1989), I'd still put him down for his exceptional individual brilliance. So the fact that he won those games and has a medallion to prove it is nice for him but doesn't sway me in terms of where he sits on these kinds of rankings. Still, we all do these calculations differently and that's what makes it good to discuss

 

[4quarter_cat]

Cam Guthrie pumps up Max Holmes.

The teammate who has impressed Cameron Guthrie during Geelong's pre-season

Geelong midfielder Cameron Guthrie has given a shout out to one of his teammates who has impressed him during the Cats’ pre-season. “I just love the way he goes ahead his footy,” Guthrie told Sam McClure on 3AW’s Wide World of Sports. He also spoke on his rather unique way of helping aid his...

www.3aw.com.au

I'd love to know what he said, I can't listen at work unfortunately.

That said, this time of year there a usually 1 article per club on how player X is going to break out and will one day become the best player in the competition.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'd love to know what he said, I can't listen at work unfortunately.

That said, this time of year there a usually 1 article per club on how player X is going to break out and will one day become the best player in the competition.

That was clearly Guthrie going the obvious player. He said he didn't want to put undue pressure on any youngster so he was always going to name a best 22 player. So the options were Holmes, SDK, Bruhn and Henry.

Holmes is our most obvious midfield star since Selwood. For some reason people around here think he had a poor year despite getting 20 coaches votes while being forced to go head to head with the superstars of the comp as a 20 year old. Compare that to Bruhn (who I rate) who didn't get a coaches vote all year I don't think. Bruhn should be a good player. Holmes is a star in the making.

 

[calder_daddy]

That was clearly Guthrie going the obvious player. He said he didn't want to put undue pressure on any youngster so he was always going to name a best 22 player. So the options were Holmes, SDK, Bruhn and Henry.

Holmes is our most obvious midfield star since Selwood. For some reason people around here think he had a poor year despite getting 20 coaches votes while being forced to go head to head with the superstars of the comp as a 20 year old. Compare that to Bruhn (who I rate) who didn't get a coaches vote all year I don't think. Bruhn should be a good player. Holmes is a star in the making.

I think they will both be stars, I actually think Bruhn will be a better player

 

[PzBlinky]

That was clearly Guthrie going the obvious player. He said he didn't want to put undue pressure on any youngster so he was always going to name a best 22 player. So the options were Holmes, SDK, Bruhn and Henry.

Holmes is our most obvious midfield star since Selwood. For some reason people around here think he had a poor year despite getting 20 coaches votes while being forced to go head to head with the superstars of the comp as a 20 year old. Compare that to Bruhn (who I rate) who didn't get a coaches vote all year I don't think. Bruhn should be a good player. Holmes is a star in the making.

I think people's expectations for Holmes were a little inflated after the huge jump between Year 1 and Year 2 where he went from "he's quick, shows promise, goal kicking is horrific" to "auto 22 lock, explosive pacy start of the future". With all our injuries, his role had to change for big chunks of the year so the luxury of having him as just an outside player was lost - 100% not his fault, just the way it went. Plus he didn't escape the injury curse either, no matter if it was just a couple of weeks.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I think they will both be stars, I actually think Bruhn will be a better player

You may well be right. I think Bruhn will be a good player at worst. But Holmes is the obvious star of the future right now.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I think people's expectations for Holmes were a little inflated after the huge jump between Year 1 and Year 2 where he went from "he's quick, shows promise, goal kicking is horrific" to "auto 22 lock, explosive pacy start of the future". With all our injuries, his role had to change for big chunks of the year so the luxury of having him as just an outside player was lost - 100% not his fault, just the way it went. Plus he didn't escape the injury curse either, no matter if it was just a couple of weeks.

They were miles inflated. Take Connor Rozee. Super young player who looked brilliant in his first 2 years. In his 3rd year (2021) he missed the top 10 of Port's B&F despite playing 21/24 games.

He wasn't forced to play inside like Holmes was either with Wines and Boak finishing 1 and 2 in the B&F. Did that make him ordinary? No. He was AA in his 4th and 5th season. Butters was similar although had more injury issues. There's no reason Holmes can't dominate in the next couple of years like those guys did in years 4-5 (see Bartel, Ablett, etc as others who did the same).

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I think they will both be stars, I actually think Bruhn will be a better player

All depends on what you value, but we're very lucky to have both.

From what we can go off right now, IMO Tanner might be more of a meat and potatoes inside mid, who just gives you consistent good footy every week. Very small gap between his best and worst games.

I feel he's destined to be a very good footballer who's underrated his whole career.

Maybe a bit of Marc Murphy, but more so Luke Shuey, who West Coast supporters value much higher than than the media and opposition fans. They view him as a top 10 player in their history in my experience.

Max might be the more flashy of the two, who might struggle to bring his absolute best every week, but his absolute best is close to the best in the league.

When it's the last quarter of a final, you're looking at him (and Ollie Henry) to do something special and pull the game out of the fire.

We're very lucky though, and with those three along with COS, SDK & Clark as well as others, it's a batch of youngsters with the potential to be some of the league's best, which is a position we haven't been since Ablett, Stevie-J, Bartel and alike were still developing kids.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

They were miles inflated. Take Connor Rozee. Super young player who looked brilliant in his first 2 years. In his 3rd year (2021) he missed the top 10 of Port's B&F despite playing 21/24 games.

He wasn't forced to play inside like Holmes was either with Wines and Boak finishing 1 and 2 in the B&F. Did that make him ordinary? No. He was AA in his 4th and 5th season. Butters was similar although had more injury issues. There's no reason Holmes can't dominate in the next couple of years like those guys did in years 4-5 (see Bartel, Ablett, etc as others who did the same).

Been saying it for a while on here and have used these exact comparisons, it's going to take longer than we think.

I've got a soft spot for Port, and have followed them closely as a pseudo 'second team' I suppose...and the development of Rozee and Butters hasn't been the dream that everyone outside of Adelaide acts like it is.

Much like our boys, they showed talent, but there were serious question marks too, much like we've seen on our own board.

In 2021 for Rozee, and early 2023 for Butters, there was genuine concerns that they were never going to be players they were 'supposed to be'.

Rozee was looking like a budget Wingard as a player who looked pretty good in his first couple years, and just couldn't make the leap from flakey, but exciting half forward flanker to bonafide star midfielder.

I remember a specific post on Butters in round 2 of 2023, saying "We thought he was the second coming of Robbie Gray, when in reality he's the second coming of Sam Gray".

You could argue these criticisms were unfair, and I'd agree with that 100% as they were (and still are) young players.

But the point is we're doing the same thing when critiquing our youngsters, and expecting too much too soon.

We can't say "Why aren't they Rozee, Butters, Petracca, Miller?" etc etc when the reality is there were serious question marks on all of those players for much of their first few years.

It's something we haven't been used to in a while, but young players take time. We've got a big batch of very talented youth coming through now, and they'll get there, but it's not going to happen right away.

 

[4quarter_cat]

That was clearly Guthrie going the obvious player. He said he didn't want to put undue pressure on any youngster so he was always going to name a best 22 player. So the options were Holmes, SDK, Bruhn and Henry.

Holmes is our most obvious midfield star since Selwood. For some reason people around here think he had a poor year despite getting 20 coaches votes while being forced to go head to head with the superstars of the comp as a 20 year old. Compare that to Bruhn (who I rate) who didn't get a coaches vote all year I don't think. Bruhn should be a good player. Holmes is a star in the making.

I didn't mean to suggest Holmes wasn't tracking excellently for a 20yo. Only that these puff pieces cannot be taken seriously.

 

[4quarter_cat]

I think they will both be stars, I actually think Bruhn will be a better player

Big call, I hope you're right in one way, because I think Holmes is going to be fantastic.
But not that big a call, their talents complement each other very well. Will those talents grow into some amazing skills and feats. Time will tell.

 

[4quarter_cat]

...

We can't say "Why aren't they Rozee, Butters, Petracca, Miller?" etc etc when the reality is there were serious question marks on all of those players for much of their first few years.

It's something we haven't been used to in a while, but young players take time. We've got a big batch of very talented youth coming through now, and they'll get there, but it's not going to happen right away.

We are lucky though with our current crop, I mean (Without even considering players yet to debut) Holmes, Bruhn, Clark, and Henry all have exceptionally high ceilings in my opinion, and will be minimum very good players later in their career.

Other teams could very well be sitting back in 4 years time going why aren't our players Holmes, Bruhn, Clark, and Henry?

The future will be bright ladies and gentlemen, it's exciting to see so much young talent on our list again.

 

[terry_bright]

Been saying it for a while on here and have used these exact comparisons, it's going to take longer than we think.

I've got a soft spot for Port, and have followed them closely as a pseudo 'second team' I suppose...and the development of Rozee and Butters hasn't been the dream that everyone outside of Adelaide acts like it is.

Much like our boys, they showed talent, but there were serious question marks too, much like we've seen on our own board.

In 2021 for Rozee, and early 2023 for Butters, there was genuine concerns that they were never going to be players they were 'supposed to be'.

Rozee was looking like a budget Wingard as a player who looked pretty good in his first couple years, and just couldn't make the leap from flakey, but exciting half forward flanker to bonafide star midfielder.

I remember a specific post on Butters in round 2 of 2023, saying "We thought he was the second coming of Robbie Gray, when in reality he's the second coming of Sam Gray".

You could argue these criticisms were unfair, and I'd agree with that 100% as they were (and still are) young players.

But the point is we're doing the same thing when critiquing our youngsters, and expecting too much too soon.

We can't say "Why aren't they Rozee, Butters, Petracca, Miller?" etc etc when the reality is there were serious question marks on all of those players for much of their first few years.

It's something we haven't been used to in a while, but young players take time. We've got a big batch of very talented youth coming through now, and they'll get there, but it's not going to happen right away.

Another key factor with all players drafted in 2020 -21 is how much footy and development they missed due to COVID.
Holmes was effectively drafted straight out of schoolboy footy and missed going through the traditional growth pathways.
Oli Wilshire barely had the chance to put himself in the shop window as an 18 yo and had to do it the hard way in country footy. Not to say he’ll make it or would have been drafted as a kid, but not having the chance to show your wares or work on your game makes it extremely difficult to sell yourself.

 

[Lana]

I think they will both be stars, I actually think Bruhn will be a better player

Higher floor lower ceiling. The old Josh Caddy trade in vs Billie Smedts draft in

 

[small 4wards]

I think Bruhn will surprise a few with this season compared to last. He's learning a new system and also playing a different role to what he played at the giants, another preseason under his belt to learn our midfield structure will do him good. I feel like he loses impact in games due to positioning more than anything else, he's ferocious at the contest.

 

[calder_daddy]

I think Bruhn will surprise a few with this season compared to last. He's learning a new system and also playing a different role to what he played at the giants, another preseason under his belt to learn our midfield structure will do him good. I feel like he loses impact in games due to positioning more than anything else, he's ferocious at the contest.

It was mentioned he had the lowest amount of midfield minutes on purpose “obviously due to fitness”
If he gets his minutes up to 75-80 instead of his 60 then he will like you said, surprise a few

 

[Kobe Gryant]

It was mentioned he had the lowest amount of midfield minutes on purpose “obviously due to fitness”
If he gets his minutes up to 75-80 instead of his 60 then he will like you said, surprise a few

Looks aren't everything, we know that. You can have a beer gut and be able to run all day, and have a 6 pack and be gassed in a quarter.

However, what's so promising about this picture is that Bruhn is clearly putting the work in.

I think you're right, and we'll quickly see any concerns over his fitness alleviated throughout this year.

But even if it doesn't happen, it's not going to be from a lack of effort. He's a super professional, particularly for such a young player.

I truly believe all of us who have been on the bandwagon from the start are going to be proven correct in the long run, and maybe even the short term too.

Professionalism
Leadership
Availability
Disposal
Speed
Size (Neither too big or too small)
Ability to accumulate the ball on so far limited game time

The only thing between where he's at now and stardom is the ability to run out games for longer, and add that extra 25% impact in matches.

It's easier said than done, but I'd rather a guy who has all the makings who's still a work in progress, rather than a player we have to build from the ground up.

 

[bombersboy]

If you combined Selwood and Dangerfield you still may not match Ablett senior.

When people start trotting out "Ablett wasn't a team player" it's like they've listened to throwaway lines from opposition fans and never paid any other attention. Total and complete myth. He was a little undisciplined in his early years - like many, many other players of the time at Geelong and elsewhere. But as he matured he was absolutely a team player.

I have never been at any other game than the ones Snr was playing in and when we got the ball and it started to head our way an air of expectation would come over the crowd. He was phenomonal. There was a highlights file a number of years ago. It went for well over an hour.

 

[small 4wards]

Looks aren't everything, we know that. You can have a beer gut and be able to run all day, and have a 6 pack and be gassed in a quarter.

However, what's so promising about this picture is that Bruhn is clearly putting the work in.

I think you're right, and we'll quickly see any concerns over his fitness alleviated throughout this year.

But even if it doesn't happen, it's not going to be from a lack of effort. He's a super professional, particularly for such a young player.

I truly believe all of us who have been on the bandwagon from the start are going to be proven correct in the long run, and maybe even the short term too.

Professionalism
Leadership
Availability
Disposal
Speed
Size (Neither too big or too small)
Ability to accumulate the ball on so far limited game time

good post, I'd underline professionalism. In his interviews etc, I have to remind myself of how old he is, he speaks like a veteran player who has been in the system for far longer than his three years

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I have never been at any other game than the ones Snr was playing in and when we got the ball and it started to head our way an air of expectation would come over the crowd. He was phenomonal. There was a highlights file a number of years ago. It went for well over an hour.

Back in the day the Coulda Been Champions would play Ablett highlights before their live shows - the show reel was amazing.
Really got the crowd in the mood

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

Looks aren't everything, we know that. You can have a beer gut and be able to run all day, and have a 6 pack and be gassed in a quarter.

However, what's so promising about this picture is that Bruhn is clearly putting the work in.

I think you're right, and we'll quickly see any concerns over his fitness alleviated throughout this year.

But even if it doesn't happen, it's not going to be from a lack of effort. He's a super professional, particularly for such a young player.

I truly believe all of us who have been on the bandwagon from the start are going to be proven correct in the long run, and maybe even the short term too.

Professionalism
Leadership
Availability
Disposal
Speed
Size (Neither too big or too small)
Ability to accumulate the ball on so far limited game time

The only thing between where he's at now and stardom is the ability to run out games for longer, and add that extra 25% impact in matches.

It's easier said than done, but I'd rather a guy who has all the makings who's still a work in progress, rather than a player we have to build from the ground up.

View attachment 1897347

Don't know if it's just that our pre-season media team have stepped up their game. But the shots from this pre-season show a team who want to win a premiership...

 

[Partridge]

I have never been at any other game than the ones Snr was playing in and when we got the ball and it started to head our way an air of expectation would come over the crowd. He was phenomonal. There was a highlights file a number of years ago. It went for well over an hour.

Yep know it very well, and that only went up to 1990 as well.

 

[Mattttty]

Yep know it very well, and that only went up to 1990 as well.

GAS was out of this world. Incredible feeling to be in that crowd. You could even feel it listening on the radio - the way the background noise would rise and the commentators would get excited whenever the ball went in his direction. I don't know another player who has ever brought such a high excitement factor. And with good reason. He was consistently spectacular.

 

[Mattttty]

Looks aren't everything, we know that. You can have a beer gut and be able to run all day, and have a 6 pack and be gassed in a quarter.

However, what's so promising about this picture is that Bruhn is clearly putting the work in.

I think you're right, and we'll quickly see any concerns over his fitness alleviated throughout this year.

But even if it doesn't happen, it's not going to be from a lack of effort. He's a super professional, particularly for such a young player.

I truly believe all of us who have been on the bandwagon from the start are going to be proven correct in the long run, and maybe even the short term too.

Professionalism
Leadership
Availability
Disposal
Speed
Size (Neither too big or too small)
Ability to accumulate the ball on so far limited game time

The only thing between where he's at now and stardom is the ability to run out games for longer, and add that extra 25% impact in matches.

It's easier said than done, but I'd rather a guy who has all the makings who's still a work in progress, rather than a player we have to build from the ground up.

View attachment 1897347

Love this photo of Tanner. And totally agree with you. Can't wait to see how he progresses this year.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I was able to attend todays match sim at deakin.

Players had the match sim for about 1.5 hours, they then went into some straight running and finished with some skill drills moving the ball with the aim not to hit the ground

Match sim
Blue team was the main team and Pink the opposition.
Blue team was mainly danger cuthrie and atkins in the middle. Danger getting most of the clearances. Miers had a small go through there aswell.
Stanley the ruck. He looked pretty good, took some nice overhead marks around the ground.

No Stewart in the midfield at all.

Conway on the Pink team and was quiet, but main thing with him is he was out there.

As noted above Parfitt, Blitz and Rohan took no part and i saw them leave early.

Stengle was the only player I did not see there at all. Hopefully nothing major wrong with him, but one to watch.

Chris scott was also absent.

Tuohy was in the blue team and pretty much stuck to the wing.

Bews in the Pink team

Mannagh, Clark, O'Sullivan in blue. Mannagh reminds me a bit of Higgins, probably before he came to us, smooth mover and good kick, played mainly half forward. O'Sullivan was pretty good in defence.

Neale deep forward with Hawkins and Jezza a bit higher up in the blue team. Hawkins hasnt lost his foot skills in general play and Jezza looked up and about.

Overall they all looked pretty good and fit. Only concerns are Blitz, Rohan and Parfitt with Stengle hopefully not hurt either.
Get a feeling it could be a long year for Rohan and Blitz could be in some doubt for the start of the season too.

Great report?

Two questions. With bews in the B team (which i expected) who was the main small back for blue? Bowes/mullin/moc etc?
And where and who did jeka play on.

Looks to me like mannagh and clark and knevitt are all very good chances for rnd 1.
Maybe osullivan or neale (depending on our preferred structure) if blitz isnt ready.