Training 2024 Preseason reports and discussion

[Ned Ryerson]

The DGB comparisons with Rance and Weitering in their early years aren't really accurate to my mind.

If we take each of these players third year as an example.

DGB - 5.5 possessions, 2.7 marks, 0.4 tackles
Weitering - 13.5 disposals, 5.9 marks, 1.6 tackles
Rance - 18.1 disposals, 6.0 marks, 2.6 tackles

DGB is way, way off the pace at where they both were at the same stage of their careers.

Except the stats you are using are wrong for Rance because you have obviously jumped on AFL Tables which doesn't list his first year in the system because he never played a senior game. After this 3rd season in the AFL system Rance was averaging 12.6 disposals, 3.6 marks and 2.3 tackles.

Yes - DGB is starting a little ways back still - but Rance and Weitering also had the benefit of a pandemic completely upending their rookie season in the system too. This isn't to say that DGB doesn't need to show more this year - it is just to highlight that writing off a KPP at this stage is folly.

 

[threesixpio]

Yeah but is Serong tall enough to be a KPD

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yeah but is Serong tall enough to be a KPD

Only if he plays with Watson on his shoulders.

 

[smish]

Who's to say we would have actually picked McDonald over DGB if we had the chance?

 

[hawkinoz]

Get out the tape measure

 

[wizzard400]

The DGB comparisons with Rance and Weitering in their early years aren't really accurate to my mind.

If we take each of these players third year as an example.

DGB - 5.5 possessions, 2.7 marks, 0.4 tackles
Weitering - 13.5 disposals, 5.9 marks, 1.6 tackles
Rance - 18.1 disposals, 6.0 marks, 2.6 tackles

DGB is way, way off the pace at where they both were at the same stage of their careers.

Hmm I dunno. It’s somewhat apples vs oranges if you ask me. It’s probably more hope that DGB will emulate those players eventually rather than directly comparing them in the present.

People forget that Rance spent a good portion of his first year in the VFL development team.

Weitering in his third year lost 28.6% of his defensive 1v1s.

Take that which ever way you want

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Hmm I dunno. It’s somewhat apples vs oranges if you ask me. It’s probably more hope that DGB will emulate those players eventually rather than directly comparing them in the present.

People forget that Rance spent a good portion of his first year in the VFL development team.

Weitering in his third year lost 28.6% of his defensive 1v1s.

Take that which ever way you want

Yes but Weitering was being asked to play against the number one key forward week in, week out right from when he was drafted.

For him to do that at only what 22 and still average mid teens in possessions and 6 marks a game is pretty good.

When you look at Weitering and Rances stats what strikes you is that every year they got incrementally better and better.

DGB has actually regressed.

I'm not trying to sound negative but I think it's worth putting some context around his development (or lack of) when comparing him to recent Key Position Backmen.

To assume he will just suddenly Blossom in his fourth / third year is a big leap of faith when you look at how much ground he needs to make up relative to his contemporaries.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yes but Weitering was being asked to play against the number one key forward week in, week out right from when he was drafted.

For him to do that at only what 22 and still average mid teens in possessions and 6 marks a game is pretty good.

When you look at Weitering and Rances stats what strikes you is that every year they got incrementally better and better.

DGB has actually regressed.

I'm not trying to sound negative but I think it's worth putting some context around his development (or lack of) when comparing him to recent Key Position Backmen.

To assume he will just suddenly Blossom in his fourth / third year is a big leap of faith when you look at how much ground he needs to make up relative to his contemporaries.

I am not saying that he is going to start generating 4th year numbers compared to these players - it is a parable to demonstrate that players like DGB take time. People were brutally impatient on Pittonet during his time with us and it turns out that he could actually make it at the level. As I mentioned - Tom Stewart wasn't even on an AFL list at DGB's age.

DGB clearly had tools as we weren't the only club keen to secure him high in the draft. Given this, the fact that 2021 would have been a shocking year to enter the AFL system given there was no VFL so he was relying on scratch matches while in hubs (look at 2020 draftees in general - many aren't world beaters) and the fact that KPPs take time I am not writing his career off at the end of his 3rd year. Noting also that we have been a rebuilding side his entire time on the list and our defence has copped some hammerings - it's not as if he has had the luxury of someone like Birchall or Stratton to just ease into senior footy in a side that is absolutely humming.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I am not saying that he is going to start generating 4th year numbers compared to these players - it is a parable to demonstrate that players like DGB take time. People were brutally impatient on Pittonet during his time with us and it turns out that he could actually make it at the level. As I mentioned - Tom Stewart wasn't even on an AFL list at DGB's age.

DGB clearly had tools as we weren't the only club keen to secure him high in the draft. Given this, the fact that 2021 would have been a shocking year to enter the AFL system given there was no VFL so he was relying on scratch matches while in hubs (look at 2020 draftees in general - many aren't world beaters) and the fact that KPPs take time I am not writing his career off at the end of his 3rd year. Noting also that we have been a rebuilding side his entire time on the list and our defence has copped some hammerings - it's not as if he has had the luxury of someone like Birchall or Stratton to just ease into senior footy in a side that is absolutely humming.

he's lucky that he was in WA during 2020 otherwise that'd be another year of proper development hampered (although he probably doesn't go at #6 if he is in VIC)

 

[CHUBBSS]

Reeves has come back in great shape, in for a huge year

 

[FB19]

Do we still believe DGB is ever going to be a KPD? he looks to be developing as the third defender. Problem is we have Sicily with McCabe developing. He may make it at the level just not sure there is a spot for him in our backline.

 

[MadDawg]

The DGB comparisons with Rance and Weitering in their early years aren't really accurate to my mind.

If we take each of these players third year as an example.

DGB - 5.5 possessions, 2.7 marks, 0.4 tackles
Weitering - 13.5 disposals, 5.9 marks, 1.6 tackles
Rance - 18.1 disposals, 6.0 marks, 2.6 tackles

DGB is way, way off the pace at where they both were at the same stage of their careers.

To be fair, DGB was playing as a forward, meaning his stats are not as high as the other two playing in defence.

However, the point remains that he clearly needs to build his tank and impact more contests if he is going to be the player we hope he can be.

 

[Colloquy]

I mean there is still a reason he got picked where he did. Plenty of exposed talent and has really good speed. His problems at the moment are endurance and his confidence is probably low. Endurance doesn't really come into it in under 18s where you have restrictions of positions on field. DGB played and took Logan McDonald to the cleaners in the under 18s comp. Yes time waits for no one and DGB's time is running out at Hawthorn. He needs to show something this year. I am sure he knows exactly where he is at

I think in the future when we look back on the CoVID draft there won’t be many good players out of it.

 

[Colloquy]

Can we not be writing off players in December, please?

Yeah let’s wait till the end of next season to do it.

 

[wahawk]

DGB has actually regressed.

I'm not trying to sound negative but I think it's worth putting some context around his development (or lack of) when comparing him to recent Key Position Backmen.

To assume he will just suddenly Blossom in his fourth / third year is a big leap of faith when you look at how much ground he needs to make up relative to his contemporaries.

But you are

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Weitering has a very different body shape to DGB to my eye.

They are the same height but Weitering is much broader across the shoulders and through the arms.

Weitering is listed at 101kg and thats an ideal weight for a KPD (pretty sure Lake used to play around that mark). He is a legit big unit and as you say he is elite (he killed us when we played the Blues at the MCG this year)

Looking at DGB's body shape I think he will top out at 90 to 94kg. Which would mean he would have to make his mark as a Sam Frost type defender who plays on the second tall / medium forward.


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Weitering looked like DGB at the same stage is what I'm referring to. Didn't max out his weight till about year 5 and has been around that mark since. DGB doesn't need to get huge as you said mid 90s is fine if he's not going to play on the Hawkins type. You don't want to neutralise his strengths as a player by bulking him up too much. You need 1 big unit and a solid unit accompanying him down back IMO.

 

[G0ats]

The DGB comparisons with Rance and Weitering in their early years aren't really accurate to my mind.

If we take each of these players third year as an example.

DGB - 5.5 possessions, 2.7 marks, 0.4 tackles
Weitering - 13.5 disposals, 5.9 marks, 1.6 tackles
Rance - 18.1 disposals, 6.0 marks, 2.6 tackles

DGB is way, way off the pace at where they both were at the same stage of their careers.

Agreed, Weitering and Rance were also way ahead on games played at the same stage in their careers.

 

[theiaofseed]

Agreed, Weitering and Rance were also way ahead on games played at the same stage in their careers.

Rance had played 25 games after 3 years, Denver has played 28 games.

 

[G0ats]

Who's to say we would have actually picked McDonald over DGB if we had the chance?

We absolutely would have. Only reason Adelaide selected Thilthope at 2 is because he is from SA. North shat the bed taking Phillips at 3.

 

[G0ats]

Rance had played 25 games after 3 years, Denver has played 28 games.

Obviously excluding his first season where he started playing in their development side (a step down from seconds).

 

[kazzooka]

Who's to say we would have actually picked McDonald over DGB if we had the chance?

Nobody, but we did call out Campbell at pick 5 but didn't have the chance.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Do we still believe DGB is ever going to be a KPD? he looks to be developing as the third defender. Problem is we have Sicily with McCabe developing. He may make it at the level just not sure there is a spot for him in our backline.

Sicily almost 30 and McCabe is only 18 and raw. If DGB can play the role to the level we thought he might when drafted, he’ll get his chance to lock in a spot.

 

[Topiary]

Rance had played 25 games after 3 years, Denver has played 28 games.

Both Rance and Weitering became big guys. Can DGB do the same? That is the question.

 

[killerspud]

Both Rance and Weitering became big guys. Can DGB do the same? That is the question.

I reckon he can. We just need to keep the faith here. He will come good

 

[brad sue well]

DGB, Butler, Dowler all talented to a point and haven't shown it at the top level in their first few years.

Going to BH, you could hear and see Clarkson carry on when Dowler didn't do what he wanted and then Fagan would tell him what to do at the breaks...

It just seems by what people are saying that despite similar output of the current two they are getting fair instruction to improve.

It's a harsh industry, player as a playing resource are limited in numbers so best to see if they can overcome their limitations.