List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[stavro#4]

I thought you said he's a GOP?

He isn’t a star and I don’t think if he was contracted we would be getting a top 10 pick for him at trade time.

He does a lot well. He is solid. But he doesn’t exactly have an elite trait nor is he a match winner.

None of the above is me having a crack at Josh either. I’d probably consider him more valuable if he was a genuine key position size in 2024. He isn’t.

 

[stavro#4]

You'd think that would be back ended or front ended and 1 mill would be the high season value, but if not - if it's actually the equivalent of 1 mil per season and that pushes us into Band 1 category - we can at least say we were responsible as a club which is what we really need right now, regardless of Josh's leadership qualities. No more messiahs for St Kilda, we need a team. A couple of top 8 picks gives us a better shot when our window opens. Our younger guys will have to step up, as will Gubby bloody Allen - time to earn that coin and get a ready made Mid gun through our doors or sling your hook.

Whatever the make up of his deal is, I think Josh is going to Benefit being a free agent at exactly the right time as clubs get a massive cap increase and plenty of money to burn trying to get better.

As Twomey said. It’s definitely a watch from here and if he keeps his form up. I think he triggers band 1.

 

[oldevo]

We have to draft a sandy player too. The cupboard looks pretty sparse there from what I’ve seen..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

As did Billings and Coffield but it's about the whole, not the parts.

Shipping those two players off ( as you put it) has not made us stronger.

Honestly , its babyish, you don't like something you want to throw it out of the cot.

 

[stavro#4]

Shipping those two players off ( as you put it) has not made us stronger.

Honestly , it’s babyish, you don't like something you want to throw it out of the cot.

what?

Billings looks absolutely horrid - Melbourne supporters cannot stand him.

Coffield again broke down.

How exactly has it weakened us?

 

[akaifu]

Also meant to be staying competitive while building up the youth quota. At the moment we are uncompetitive and making ourselves weaker. You can see us bottoming out to save the president from the mistake of taking Ross Lyon.

I hope they pull the plug on Lyon and Sos before they take us down the toilet. We were meant to be on track challenging for a flag in 2025. Right now we are more likely to be bottom 4 again with a few of the sides that were down likely to jump and sit above us unless we get a huge move on.

We sound like we are losing Battle and want to move on Howard. So defence will be really poor and that pretty much means every line in the side will be below average. I reckon we could easily finish last next year if we have a couple of injuries and kids don't develop as we'd hoped.

How are you blaming our performances this year on SOS? He's drafted Wilson, Hugo, Hastie, Arie; brought in Dow and Henry and you're still not happy? Far out there's no impressing you if that's the case

Re: Ross, onfield performances aren't going well but the game plan is a sustainable game plan if we have the personnel. Our defence is solid - we missed Webster early in the year and now Doug will be missing games but overall its promising. Our transition from back half is almost best in the comp. The only issue with our game is forward half entries and turnovers, which the boys are clearly working on. They have acknowledged that overhandballlng and overuse are the main issues, so as soon as things click in this department, we'll see a very different team. We aren't as far away as a lot of fans think

 

[gringo2011]

With 20 out of contract it’s likely some of our players will be moved around for not a lot individually- so we will be eyeing upgrades at certain points.

Do you think we'll be bottom 4 next season? when do we play finals next and how long does Ross get before we have to knife him if he doesn't move us forward?

 

[stfan]

With 20 out of contract it’s likely some of our players will be moved around for not a lot individually- so we will be eyeing upgrades at certain points.

Which is also how FS and Academy picks when they are matched hurts us as any picks we have traded a player our for is going to be devalued by quite a few places as we are talking about cheap picks that we would get in.

And looking at that list of players whose contracts finish in 2024, there is bugger all trade value there. Howard probably the main chance of something ok. But then you are also losing Howard and Battle.


GC are sitting pretty with Academy players to come in yet again, and a very nice draft hard which they will no doubt improve by pick trading. They get to stockpile more and more good young talent.

 

[stavro#4]

Do you think we'll be bottom 4 next season? when do we play finals next and how long does Ross get before we have to knife him if he doesn't move us forward?

I think we will. But how can I truly answer that without seeing the list.

Who’s to say we don’t have picks 4+5 and trade 5 for LDU?

Who’s to say battle doesn’t re-sign and then we land Stengle or Ben Ainsworth (meh)

 

[stavro#4]

We have to draft a sandy player too. The cupboard looks pretty sparse there from what I’ve seen..

We have to list a Sandy player. Can be done via the Rookie list.

 

[austinnn]

I think we're better off shipping Doogs out and covering that hole instead.

Firstly, even if he held a treasure map to Atlantis and knew who killed JFK, no one would pay Dougal Howard enough for a Band One compensation pick. Josh is far more attractive internally and externally.

Secondly, it actually would be a lot easier for us to replace a 3rd Tall Defender than our tallest Key defender. Take a look at our efforts so far for evidence. After the masterful Zac Dawson, only Jake Carlisle has got close and we've burned a couple picks in our efforts to replace him, but we managed to miss all the good ones.

 

[gringo2011]

How are you blaming our performances this year on SOS? He's drafted Wilson, Hugo, Hastie, Arie; brought in Dow and Henry and you're still not happy? Far out there's no impressing you if that's the case

Re: Ross, onfield performances aren't going well but the game plan is a sustainable game plan if we have the personnel. Our defence is solid - we missed Webster early in the year and now Doug will be missing games but overall its promising. Our transition from back half is almost best in the comp. The only issue with our game is forward half entries and turnovers, which the boys are clearly working on. They have acknowledged that overhandballlng and overuse are the main issues, so as soon as things click in this department, we'll see a very different team. We aren't as far away as a lot of fans think

I think that was the guy he sacked.

 

[Imtellingya]

That doesnt mean those same players cant become elite, it should give us more confidence that we are going to get decent players deeper into the draft. Not many drafts have generational players like Reid & Daicos, but it doesnt mean we cant get some elite or excellent players in the draft.

Regardless of the draft I am still hoping Battle choses to stay with the Saints! He is as tough as nails, reliable and I think his intercept game is only going to get better. It would be an unfortunate time to lose him given he is one who has continued to improve this year and IMO has his best footy ahead of him. I guess thats what the chasing clubs see in him and why they are throwing big $$$ at him.

Paddy Dow is starting to look like a really good pick up, but there is no doubt we need to add elite midfielders to our list. If we can grab a couple of mids with our first two picks in this years draft and add another fringe midfielder looking for opportunity, we should be on our way. Then hope that Crouch can get over his knee issue, Garcia, Phillipou, Owens, Wilson, Henry and Hall continue to develop. Continue to work on picking up a free agent like LDU next year then all of sudden we might start looking ok in the midfield stakes.

I do hope however we find a replacement for Howard like Butts to fill the full back role. Accordingly Howard is very well paid so I think the club are keen to get his salary off the books. It might mean we again pay some of his salary but it would be worth it if we can find a replacement. Then as much as Max Heath is starting to improve I still think we need to find another ruckman. Image if we could attract Ned Moyle, with him and Marshall changing forward that would cause oppositions some problems.

I sincerely hope the club aren't considering Lobb as a fill in they simply need to look else where. The guy is a selfish spud who is severely over rated and for a big man he is as soft as most outside players. Lobb regardless of what he costs would be a major step backwards IMO. Jack Hayes hasnt played a lot but he is far better value/player than Lobb IMO.

Agree with your comments on Lobb. For a big man he is very soft and injury prone. He’s already moved clubs three times. Needs to focus more on his football than being a social media star.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

He reminds me so much of a mix between JHF and Serong. Obviously not that good but quick hands, solid kicking and bursts from stoppage. Spreads well too. I have him and Jagga equal at the top of our list. Another SA boy to add to Nas and Pou

Surely Adelaide take Draper

 

[gringo2011]

He isn’t a star and I don’t think if he was contracted we would be getting a top 10 pick for him at trade time.

He does a lot well. He is solid. But he doesn’t exactly have an elite trait nor is he a match winner.

None of the above is me having a crack at Josh either. I’d probably consider him more valuable if he was a genuine key position size in 2024. He isn’t.

We wouldn't but doubt we get a better player and we are a lot further from a flag. Probably means Sincs, Marshall and Wilkie don't challenge for a flag towards the end of their careers and we head for a proper sustained period of being uncompetitive.

 

[stavro#4]

We wouldn't but doubt we get a better player and we are a lot further from a flag. Probably means Sincs, Marshall and Wilkie don't challenge for a flag towards the end of their careers and we head for a proper sustained period of being uncompetitive.

The ladder is so tight the last few years with bang average sides that not a lot separates 5-16.

The problem is that we need to get into the 1-4 bracket where the real contenders lie and what we have just won’t do it.

So we can go to the draft again. With 1 top 10. Hope it’s a game changer for us.

And hope we land a FA next season.

Or we can try the above with 2 top 10 picks and maybe manoeuvre around in trade period to plug the battle gap with maybe another genuine Key back.

 

[gringo2011]

The ladder is so tight the last few years with bang average sides that not a lot separates 5-16.

The problem is that we need to get into the 1-4 bracket where the real contenders lie and what we have just won’t do it.

So we can go to the draft again. With 1 top 10. Hope it’s a game changer for us.

And hope we land a FA next season.

Or we can try the above with 2 top 10 picks and maybe manoeuvre around in trade period to plug the battle gap with maybe another genuine Key back.

This is the same path we've been on since 2011. Pies cherry pick players who aren't high profile but fit a need. We sell players to fill holes then have to give up more to replace them with a down grade.

 

[beside the seaside]

I'm probably rose coloured glasses but I don't think it's at all weird that Battle hasn't signed. He's seeing what the market offers him and his value is going up. His management is playing it perfectly. Free agents often sign late in the season these days.

 

[_Maximus_12]

This is the same path we've been on since 2011. Pies cherry pick players who aren't high profile but fit a need. We sell players to fill holes then have to give up more to replace them with a down grade.

We’re not Collingwood. We don’t have the lure of playing in front of the biggest crowds on the big days. We don’t have to coterie group or the prestige. This is not a model that is favourable to st Kilda. We need to go to the draft or find young kids who are struggling for minutes at better clubs. We’ve tried the whole recruit spare parts players in the late 2010s and look where that’s go us? No where.

if that’s a reality you don’t like then it might be easier for you to follow a different club

 

[stavro#4]

This is the same path we've been on since 2011. Pies cherry pick players who aren't high profile but fit a need. We sell players to fill holes then have to give up more to replace them with a down grade.

We let an aging Goddard and Dal go.
We traded an average ruck in McEvoy to a dynasty side
We let Gresham walk - and Dons fans aren’t exactly thrilled.

Where have we continuously attempted this approach?

Because that’s 4 players in 14 years. Probably below league average.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm probably rose coloured glasses but I don't think it's at all weird that Battle hasn't signed. He's seeing what the market offers him and his value is going up. His management is playing it perfectly. Free agents often sign late in the season these days.

 

[gringo2011]

We’re not Collingwood. We don’t have the lure of playing in front of the biggest crowds on the big days. We don’t have to coterie group or the prestige. This is not a model that is favourable to st Kilda. We need to go to the draft or find young kids who are struggling for minutes at better clubs. We’ve tried the whole recruit spare parts players in the late 2010s and look where that’s go us? No where.

if that’s a reality you don’t like then it might be easier for you to follow a different club

Collingwood don't chase big names. They pick guys with upside and overlooked. They don't usually chase premium priced elite talent. No side can catch up with just drafting these days.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

This year's to 10 worthy mids are shite compared to last year.

There wasn’t many mids in last year’s draft, so no.

Saints knocked it out of the park with Wilson at 18.

 

[austinnn]

what?

Billings looks absolutely horrid - Melbourne supporters cannot stand him.

Coffield again broke down.

How exactly has it weakened us?

I don't think he said it weakened us, he said it didn't make us stronger.

Jack Billings: "In exchange for Billings, the Saints receive a future third-round pick from Melbourne." Then during the 2023 draft, we traded that future pick back to the Dees for pick 42 in the "present" draft (see below).

Here's the more complicated Nick Coffield trade:

St Kilda gives:

• Nick Coffield
• Pick No. 35 (to Essendon)
• Pick No. 56 (to Western Bulldogs)
• Future fourth-round selection (from Fremantle, to Carlton)

St Kilda receives:

• Paddy Dow
• Pick No. 40 (via Western Bulldogs)
• Future third-round selection (via Carlton)

Then during the 2023 draft, we traded that 40, plus the billings pick above (42), to GCS for pick 27, and also traded the future pick from Carlton for pick 50 in the "present" draft.

OVERALL
OUT
Coffield
Billings
Billings's salary
Pick 35 2023ND - (Luamon Lual?)
Pick 42 2023ND - (Not sure, eaten up by the academy selections?)
Pick 56 2023ND - (Archie Roberts?)
4RDP 2024ND

IN
Dow
Pick 27 2023ND - Angus Hastie
Pick 50 2023ND - Hugo Garcia

TL;DR, It did make us stronger IMO, but who knows until those younger players develop. Does the team really need Billings or Coffield right now? I'd rather have Dow and Garcia, and Hastie has a lot of promise too.

 

[stavro#4]

Collingwood don't chase big names. They pick guys with upside and overlooked. They don't usually chase premium priced elite talent. No side can catch up with just drafting these days.

They were in the final 2 for lynch and landed Mcstay who was the biggest free agent in 2022.