Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

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Just picked up my first ever threadban on the MB. Admittedly deserved and echoing what many have already said but it's extremely clear how arbitrary the decision making is given which posters get a clear run

Even had a post deleted for abuse for suggesting a mod had beclowned themselves after wait for it - they called me a clown
 
KickItAnywhere34 said:
Would an apology save Alastair

Clarkson?

That's certainly not suggesting Clarkson is guilty of racism, but perhaps he might be guilty of cultural insensitivities or naivety if you like, which hardly makes him Robinson Crusoe in a world where millions of people are insensitive to race.

Or Clarkson might not be guilty of anything, which he says.

On September 21, he put out a statement declaring he was "shocked" by claims of racism directed at him and refuted any allegation of wrongdoing.

On November 2, his first day at North Melbourne as coach, Clarkson said there was more "depth and history" to the serious allegations made against him, which included allegations about terminating an unborn child.



It was also asserted that Clarkson had told friends he would sell his house and belongings to fund the legal fees to clear his name.

It would seem crystal clear Clarkson is set for the fight of his life.

Two men and two women have agreed to participate in the independent investigation, and the four panel members of the investigation will soon, if they haven't already, start to visit them to hear their stories.

Alastair Clarkson during his final year as Hawthorn coach.

Picture• Getty Ima∞es



It can be revealed today, another former player and another couple are considering whether to also tell their stories. At present, they are scared, but a level of determination exists.

That's four people, possibly seven, with multiple stories about Clarkson's behaviour at Hawthorn, stories and context and depth which Clarkson will get the opportunity to explain.

Already, we have read some of those stories, in an ABC report and when the Herald Sun published the Hawthorn internal review, which was delivered to the AFL.

There are other stories, which cannot be printed today, but will be aired to the independent investigators, and which will be made public, according to the AFL.



Clarkson denies everything.

The four-time premiership coach is not the only former Hawthorn staffer to be named - the others are Chris Fagan and Jason Burt - but clearly Clarkson is the central figure.

A man who loves total control of his environment, Clarkson has lost control of his. It must be an unsettling place to land.

Ask James Hird, who was the central figure in the Essendon supplements saga.

Almost eight years ago, Clarkson had little to no sympathy for Hird and the situation Hird found himself in.

Hird denied everything then, as is

Clarkson now.

Back then, Clarkson accused Hird of

"ambushing" the game.



"We need to ensure it never happens in our game again," Clarkson said of the Dons scandal.

"What have we learned? What have coaches learned about their obligations and responsibilities to young men? What have clubs learned? What have junior coaches learned?

"It's too easy to sweep it under the carpet and hope it's never going to happen again. It comes down to having the right systems and protocols in place."

Alastair Clarkson didn't have much sympathy for James Hird during the Essendon saga. Picture: AAP Images



He later told The Age: "We're only temporary custodians. We're just here to protect the game and pass the baton on to the next generation and ensure it is in a good state.

"We've just got to make sure that things like what happened last year (at

Essendon) must never be allowed to ambush the game again, to tarnish what is a great game."

Oh, how the wheel turns.

Who knows how the investigation will play out.

A canvas of several senior football figures this week did not elicit one definitive

answer.

If Clarkson is found guilty of "something" by the panel, the AFL will need to determine a penalty, be that a fine, a suspension or deregistration. Yes, it's possible Clarkson will not coach a single game at North Melbourne.

If Clarkson rejects those findings and any

AFL punishment, then, at this stage, a drawn-out court case costing millions of dollars is a real possibility.

And if Clarkson is found not guilty?

The First Nations players and their families, and the wider Indigenous football nation will believe it's a white man's world with white-man's rules, which believe white men over them.

It's beyond complex.

It's been described as a he said-she said scenario, but it's more than that. It's a he said/they said scenario. And "they' believe they have overwhelming evidence that shows Clarkson is a racist at worst, and insensitive and ignorant at worst, and insensitive and ignorant at best.

Clarkson's current position is that of a prize fighter standing in his corner, ready to swing at everything and everyone, and refusing to take a backward step.

That's his right.

MOUTL4

Alastair Clarkson arrives at North Melbourne on his first official day at the club. Picture: Jake Nowakowski

But it's also his right to reconsider his position, that his behaviour and words more than 10 years ago might've been insensitive, which is the softer version of racism.

That position could possibly deliver an alternate end to proceedings - other than a courtroom.

It may be too late for that, anyway, after Clarkson's adamant first-up denials.

But if Clarkson wanted to apologise, and it was sincere and it was broadcast to the nation, the possibility of mediation would be alive.

It's only a thought.

Because, let's be honest, this is a cluster of epic proportions, and it needs leaders and processes put in place, so there's more understanding and teachings and learnings to be had.

Clarkson already has reputational damage - the allegations themselves carry enough mud - but it can't be all about a witch-hunt and what happened

10 years ago.

It's also got to be about what happens now and into the future.

This week, the AFL Players Association supported a demand for the AFL to annually review its indigenous practices, as well as identify and admit to past failings.

Suddenly, a terrible situation has prompted a cultural movement, and one that will need all types of leaders.

Could Clarkson become one? Could an acceptance that he could've been better and an apology help shape the future?

Again, it's only a thought.



Clearly, some people would accept his contriteness.

Some Indigenous people, however, would ask how an intelligent man who has been in the system since the racial vilification rules were put in place in 1995, who has been educated on Indigenous culture and beliefs, could be so insensitive, or even flippant on race.

One issue is measuring what happened, or what was allegedly said, 10 years ago against the 2022 standards of education and understanding. The flip-side issue is what does that matter?

The AFL is not without failings during this time. They handled the Adam Goodes situation badly, starting off by not punishing Eddie McGuire for his comments about Goodes, to not punishing Adelaide for its camp debacle, as outlined by Eddie Betts.



It's been reported AFL boss Gill

McLachlan will remain in his role until the Hawks scandal is over.

TOTA

Gill McLachlan will remain in his role until the Hawks scandal is over. Picture: David Crosling

I initially agreed with that stance, but as the situation has grown to be a cultural movement, and the AFL has indicated it's ready to combat racism on a much bigger scale, the horizon looks like it's a line in the sand moment.

McLachlan is part of the past on Indigenous issues - and it's been problematic - and what's happening now commands a great focus to the future.

At least fresh eyes.

A new CEO could own and drive this powerful position on Indigenous understanding and responsibility.

And the perfect person for that is Richmond CEO Brendon Gale, who while talented and quirky and absolutely should be the prime candidate for the CEO's role, he has also put in place at the Tigers an authentic commitment to listen, learn and understand.

They are not perfect, the Tigers, but the outcome has been a sporting club that is culturally safe on and off the field and without peer among every sports club in Australia.

Take note, Richard Goyder.



It is said the AFL does not like Gale for the role, but the clubs believe that is ludicrous thinking.

The Clarkson situation, meanwhile, is not his alone. While testimonies will centre on Clarkson, former Hawks people Burt, Fagan, current Suns CEO Mark Evans and current AFL Commissioner Andrew Newbold also feature.

As does Hawthorn as a footy club, which is likely to be punished by the AFL, and which could be up for millions of dollars in court fees and potential civil fallout.

The reputational damage to people and to the club and to the league could be like we haven't seen in the game before.

Whatever happens, the trauma is absolute on all sides.
Click to expand...

After reading back and literally read that in Robbo’s drunk voice, which is easy because I’m drunk and all it makes me think is i should have another beer, exactly like when your mate has been telling you the same story he said a few other times.
 
Agree that article is a drunken ramble but the main thread has some merit. I think it’s reasonable for Clarko to consider an apology for perhaps being insensitive knowing what he knows now. If he knew there would be no repercussions that would show unbelievable leadership. That could provide impetus for real change to ensure better processes are put in place for clubs and their indigenous players moving forward which should be the outcome being pursued rather than a witch hunt that Russ instigated. Unfortunately lawyers have their fingerprints all over this now and both sides will be dealing in absolutes. The joys of having an Adversary system.
 
Midas said:
Agree that article is a drunken ramble but the main thread has some merit. I think it’s reasonable for Clarko to consider an apology for perhaps being insensitive knowing what he knows now. If he knew there would be no repercussions that would show unbelievable leadership. That could provide impetus for real change to ensure better processes are put in place for clubs and their indigenous players moving forward which should be the outcome being pursued rather than a witch hunt that Russ instigated. Unfortunately lawyers have their fingerprints all over this now and both sides will be dealing in absolutes. The joys of having an Adversary system.
Click to expand...
Well done you for finding a main thread in the ramble.

I‘m absolutely expecting reflection and acknowledgement of where he needed to learn and change, at some later point. But there is a specific and horrible allegation that couldn’t be smoothed over with an apology, so while that’s hanging over the inquiry there is no value in him saying anything general.
 
Let's do some basic thinking here folks ... unlike the Bain Moard thread where you're only allowed to post as if it is still the day Rusty published, we know here things have actually moved on a great deal

There were three families in Rusty's original report ... Ian and Amy, Zac and Kylie and Liam and Jacqui.

Four families represented by Arnold Bloch Liebler have agreed to take part in the investigation.

Amy - represented by Marque Lawyers - (and presumably Ian) aren't taking part.

I'm told that Liam withdrew a while back.

A family represented by Judy Courtin rejected mediation recently and won't take part - are they Zac and Kylie?

So who are the four families taking part in the investigation? And if the families from Rusty's story aren't, what's going to be investigated?

The inclusion of the below in the ToR in the definitions of "inappropriate conduct" strongly suggests that the Riolis are taking part.

racialized and/or gendered stereotyping directed towards First Nations players, their families and intimate partners;
Click to expand...

That the snivelling defamatory misogynist coward Jackson didn't mention Jeff Kennett's racism towards the Riolis in his original (I recommend you screenshot it as it will be taken down soon enough) report was stunning.

Did Rusty omit this by deliberate design, or because as a "self taught journalist" he's just not capable of doing anything beyond writing down what the likes of Rod Owen tell him? It seems that way, he simply wrote down whatever Amy told him and ran it, without bothering to check any of it.

What's also interesting about the ToR is the very specific inclusion in the Matters for Investigation of:

5. Whether the ‘Cultural Safety Review’ commissioned by HFC and undertaken by Mr Philip Egan of Binmada Pty Ltd (Binmada Report) was an appropriate mechanism and/or adopted appropriate procedures for the matters Mr Egan was engaged to review and/or ultimately investigated.
Click to expand...

The Binmada report was written by Phil Egan. It was then leaked in some form to Jackson at the ABC. It was then leaked again to the Herald Sun, but with some very surprising redactions.

Hun.PNG

Now why are there two redactions there? Why are Clarkson, Fagan and Burt named but not the fourth person Ian says was present?

And who was he to be living with?

Again, Jackson, in what is journalistic malpractice, fails to mention the indigenous liaison officer at Hawthorn at the time was none other than Leon Egan ... Phil's cousin!

We know that lots of indigenous players lived with Leon during the period being investigated:

Egan and his wife, Kate, housed a number of Hawthorn players over the years including Jed Anderson, James Sicily, Impey, Jermaine Miller-Lewis and Dayle Garlett, along with Richmond’s Shai Bolton.
Click to expand...

Indeed, only a few months ago, Leon was at the forefront of calls for an investigation into what happened to the Riolis and the wider issues at Hawthorn.

Hawthorn’s former Indigenous manager has called on the club to face up to its historical decades-long problem with Aboriginal players and has urged the club to welcome an Indigenous director onto Jeff Kennett’s board.

Leon Egan, a father figure to a long line of Indigenous players during the club’s most recent golden era, has advised club bosses after Cyril Rioli’s recollections about his time at the Hawks that they need to acknowledge Hawthorn’s divisive past in a bid to build a stronger cultural relationship with Indigenous Australians.
Click to expand...

Is Leon Egan's name the one redacted in the above? Why has Leon Egan gone mysteriously missing in the last few months on this?

Did nobody at the club think that hiring his cousin to investigate issues that were happening under his watch - in his house even! - was a conflict of interest so bad as to likely invalidate the entire exercise.

This isn't just me as a North supporter constructing conspiracy theories because cLaRkSoN iS oUr mEsSiAh.

This is what the investigation currently underway, headed by hugely respected indigenous legal eagles, is looking at.

It seems to me that Hawthorn the club is in serious peril - the governance of the Egan report was appalling.

It seems to me that Jeff Kennett as an individual is in serious peril - his racist treatment of the Riolis is very much a focus of the ToR even if Phil Egan and the shambling joke masquerading as a journalist Rusty Jackson conveniently omitted it.

Without Amy and Ian, the "he told me to kill my unborn kid" allegation may not even be considered by the investigation.

My understanding is proper journalists have looked at that claim and found it simply does not stack up, certainly not enough for them to repeat in print.

Indeed, Egan and the families had to go journo shopping for a while before the credulous buffoon Jackson bit.

The likes of Jake Niall simply won't repeat the details of the allegations in their work - like here.

Mark Robinson's most recent incoherent rant has more sooking about what Clarkson said to Hird about the Essendon's doping program than any details about the allegations in Jackson's report.

Even the ABC is walking away from Rusty's story:



There's a lot to come out yet, but it seems very likely Egan's report was specifically designed to pin all the blame for Hawthorn's problems on people who had left the club, giving Mitchell a clean slate and allowing Kennett to avoid being held responsible for his horrendous racism.

Did Egan work out he'd been used - hence the leaking to Jackson?

Quite possibly. Only problem is, as we saw with his attack on North's President, Jackson isn't equipped - intellectually or by training - for a story of this complexity.

He's a limited slow moving drudge who grew ideas about his abilities far beyond the reality when his plodding but well intention stories of historic sexual abuse came at a time when such work was routinely being rewarded.
 
Last edited:
KickItAnywhere34 said:
At least Robbo has now caught up with the “5” families allegedly making these allegations. Obviously the 3 in the ABC article are well known and the other 2 have been known for quite some time as well - nothing new here except Robbo regurgitating his own lunch.
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I see this as an attempt at reframing.
Ok so he's not a racist so we'll pin the much more difficult to define and therefore difficult to defend against, label of Cultural Insensitivity on him instead.
 
The Jesus said:
It's good to give people something to be outraged about
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I can't sit thru a men's game either. Usually something happens to get me up on my feet at some stage.
 
Val Keating said:
Has the actual report been released, or are we still going off Rustys article? I might be a bit slow on the uptake.
Click to expand...
I'm pages behind so this may have been answered by iirc there is a link to the report itself in the stickied post at the top of the MB thread.
 

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Val Keating said:
Some people are just clueless tbf. I was in an alimak once and the operator was an indigenous bloke, anyway one of the blokes in the lift asked him where he’s from, “from Tassie mate”. The other bloke then went on about how aboriginals from Tassie have thicker sculls than other people. Also talked asked him if he ate bush tucker and that type of stuff, I’m pretty sure he just thought he was being friendly. Man, longest ride of my life. Awkward as *. It was like it was the first indigenous bloke he met so he got all excited.
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Lots of blackfellas eat bush tucker. Even if they live in cities.

Look at it this way. There is free nutritious food all over the country. You just have to know where to find it.

Honestly people like that, in the lift aren't necessarily racist, just a bit on the spectrum. Just depend on the comments and the vibe. Sometimes its both, lol.
 
ferball said:
Lots of blackfellas eat bush tucker. Even if they live in cities.

Look at it this way. There is free nutritious food all over the country. You just have to know where to find it.

Honestly people like that, in the lift aren't necessarily racist, just a bit on the spectrum. Just depend on the comments and the vibe. Sometimes it’s both, lol.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don’t think he was deliberately being racist. It was obvious that it made the bloke uncomfortable though.

He was part of my crew and that’s just the way he was. He was one of the most annoying people I’ve ever worked with.
 
SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay said:
Let's do some basic thinking here folks ... unlike the Bain Moard thread where you're only allowed to post as if it is still the day Rusty published, we know here things have actually moved on a great deal

There were three families in Rusty's original report ... Ian and Amy, Zac and Kylie and Liam and Jacqui.

Four families represented by Arnold Bloch Liebler have agreed to take part in the investigation.

Amy - represented by Marque Lawyers - (and presumably Ian) aren't taking part.

I'm told that Liam withdrew a while back.

A family represented by Judy Courtin rejected mediation recently and won't take part - are they Zac and Kylie?

So who are the four families taking part in the investigation? And if the families from Rusty's story aren't, what's going to be investigated?

The inclusion of the below in the ToR in the definitions of "inappropriate conduct" strongly suggests that the Riolis are taking part.



That the snivelling defamatory misogynist coward Jackson didn't mention Jeff Kennett's racism towards the Riolis in his original (I recommend you screenshot it as it will be taken down soon enough) report was stunning.

Did Rusty omit this by deliberate design, or because as a "self taught journalist" he's just not capable of doing anything beyond writing down what the likes of Rod Owen tell him? It seems that way, he simply wrote down whatever Amy told him and ran it, without bothering to check any of it.

What's also interesting about the ToR is the very specific inclusion in the Matters for Investigation of:



The Binmada report was written by Phil Egan. It was then leaked in some form to Jackson at the ABC. It was then leaked again to the Herald Sun, but with some very surprising redactions.

View attachment 1552630

Now why are there two redactions there? Why are Clarkson, Fagan and Burt named but not the fourth person Ian says was present?

And who was he to be living with?

Again, Jackson, in what is journalistic malpractice, fails to mention the indigenous liaison officer at Hawthorn at the time was none other than Leon Egan ... Phil's cousin!

We know that lots of indigenous players lived with Leon during the period being investigated:



Indeed, only a few months ago, Leon was at the forefront of calls for an investigation into what happened to the Riolis and the wider issues at Hawthorn.



Is Leon Egan's name the one redacted in the above? Why has Leon Egan gone mysteriously missing in the last few months on this?

Did nobody at the club think that hiring his cousin to investigate issues that were happening under his watch - in his house even! - was a conflict of interest so bad as to likely invalidate the entire exercise.

This isn't just me as a North supporter constructing conspiracy theories because cLaRkSoN iS oUr mEsSiAh.

This is what the investigation currently underway, headed by hugely respected indigenous legal eagles, is looking at.

It seems to me that Hawthorn the club is in serious peril - the governance of the Egan report was appalling.

It seems to me that Jeff Kennett as an individual is in serious peril - his racist treatment of the Riolis is very much a focus of the ToR even if Phil Egan and the shambling joke masquerading as a journalist Rusty Jackson conveniently omitted it.

Without Amy and Ian, the "he told me to kill my unborn kid" allegation may not even be considered by the investigation.

My understanding is proper journalists have looked at that claim and found it simply does not stack up, certainly not enough for them to repeat in print.

Indeed, Egan and the families had to go journo shopping for a while before the credulous buffoon Jackson bit.

The likes of Jake Niall simply won't repeat the details of the allegations in their work - like here.

Mark Robinson's most recent incoherent rant has more sooking about what Clarkson said to Hird about the Essendon's doping program than any details about the allegations in Jackson's report.

Even the ABC is walking away from Rusty's story:



There's a lot to come out yet, but it seems very likely Egan's report was specifically designed to pin all the blame for Hawthorn's problems on people who had left the club, giving Mitchell a clean slate and allowing Kennett to avoid being held responsible for his horrendous racism.

Did Egan work out he'd been used - hence the leaking to Jackson?

Quite possibly. Only problem is, as we saw with his attack on North's President, Jackson isn't equipped - intellectually or by training - for a story of this complexity.

He's a limited slow moving drudge who grew ideas about his abilities far beyond the reality when his plodding but well intention stories of historic sexual abuse came at a time when such work was routinely being rewarded.
Click to expand...

The Riolis aren’t involved - I can pm you the 5 families if you want.
 
Devington said:
At minimum it was weird and insensitive. My gut says he just thought it was some friendly banter and didn't give a toss that it was the expense of Rioli's wife, nor did he consider that Rioli wasn't a friend, and it's all because that's just how Jeff is.
Click to expand...

A (racist) campaigner?
 

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