Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[Kram]

Government departments at all levels have to "spend their budget or they lose it next year". There is literally zero incentive to run more efficiently

On the maintenance thing. I know someone who did that at a hospital but wasnt allowed to do anything, he just had to book trades to come do it which cost call out fees etc. Its a rort

This is why I always laugh so hard when some ignoramus suggests "Let's nationalise mining!"

 

[Gralin]

Income tax cuts leads to more disposable income initially then it gets sucked up by inflation and interest rates.
Which leads to less service and richer banks and corporations ….

you get that inflation is not linked to tax rates yeah
and that interest rate rises are also not linked to tax rates

I'm on record that the stage 3 tax cuts were not good policy and even the modified version were not good policy

but you're just straight up wrong

i was for increasing taxes instead of interest rates to force inflation down..,

what taxes would you increase to achieve this

 

[SaintsSeptember]

you get that inflation is not linked to tax rates yeah
and that interest rate rises are also not linked to tax rates

I'm on record that the stage 3 tax cuts were not good policy and even the modified version were not good policy

but you're just straight up wrong


what taxes would you increase to achieve this

A lot of its housing.
People go to Auctions. The amount they bid is related to how much they can repay per month.
Give more to first home buyers, housing prices go up.
Give tax cuts to everyone , housing prices go up.
Interest rates go down, housing prices go up.

Interest rates go up , rent goes up , everyone grits their teeth and saves empty coke cans, and cries to the government.

 

[Gralin]

A lot of its housing.
People go to Auctions. The amount they bid is related to how much they can repay per month.
Give more to first home buyers, housing prices go up.
Give tax cuts to everyone , housing prices go up.
Interest rates go down, housing prices go up.

Interest rates go up , rent goes up , everyone grits their teeth and saves empty coke cans, and cries to the government.

But income tax cuts don't equal increased corporate profits which is what nut is arguing

 

[nut]

But income tax cuts don't equal increased corporate profits which is what nut is arguing

Let’s look over the last 40 years where income tax rates have decreased … have corporate and bank profits increased or decreased?

Decreasing taxes benefit the rich more than the middle class and below. Especially when we lose services and public assets and prices for everything goes up...

Let’s look at the high taxed Nordic countries and compare quality life indexes…

 

[Gralin]

Let’s look over the last 40 years where income tax rates have decreased … have corporate and bank profits increased or decreased?

Decreasing taxes benefit the rich more than the middle class and below. Especially when we lose services and public assets and prices for everything goes up...

Let’s look at the high taxed Nordic countries and compare quality life indexes…

Mate you're ignoring the elephant in the room which is unregulated markets and untaxed corporations

You're also conflating tax changes for bracket creep with tax cuts for rhe rich

 

[Gralin]

It's BAU for this government

They're not fixing welfare

They're continuing to give billions to job agencies and punish people on welfare

ATO has been doing its own version of robodebt when the government decided to go after historical tax debts

A bill to defund NDIS with support from One Nation

So progressive I'm really noticing the difference

 

[adogsfan5]

Mate you're ignoring the elephant in the room which is unregulated markets and untaxed corporations

This.

 

[peetoo]

I don't have a lot of inside information but, i know of a case where a Hospital maintenance guy , who had been paying for "service and parts " for mechanical items on beds, discovered he could do it himself for thousands of savings.

"Can you supply the parts cheaper" , "yep a little bit cheaper "
"Can you install and service them " , " service"?
"yep i get them all serviced every six months" , " the only thing that ever fails is this...and if you have a screwdriver you can change it in 5 minutes ".

Only reason the question was getting asked was because the funding was cut to hospitals at the time.
It would be good if they were driven by efficiency when funding wasn't cut , so that money could be directed to something better than unnecessary maintenance.

Hospital equipment, beds , overbed tables , etc are an incredible rort. They are mass produced in the large numbers.

A lot of people seem happy at those bloated times though.

Yep outsource thing that good old Dave did before he was retrenched, and say fixing a hinge now needs a worker plus admin on each side to process the chargeback. Security to provide a temporary pass and checks. And someone else - who’s role wasn’t provided for, to escort the new fixer in taten to the hinge, and sign off that it’s been done.

Not to mention a raft of emails with at least 11 people in the cc field

Money saved on paper but pathetic productivity

 

[burge13]

This is why I always laugh so hard when some ignoramus suggests "Let's nationalise mining!"

I think the government should get a stake in every new mine so we share the profits but they should well and truly stay out of the way if any management or running of it

 

[phantom13]

Anyone worried albanese could lose the election next year?

He needs inflation to come down quickly and at the moment it just aint happening.

Not particularly. His current oppo is a racist POS whos big move is nuclear power without a plan or a cost benefit analysis.

If Liberal werent so utterly incompetent it might be a worry (although at this point a decent Liberal leader who isnt a RWNJ wouldnt be much different to Albo)

 

[phantom13]

Government departments at all levels have to "spend their budget or they lose it next year". There is literally zero incentive to run more efficiently

On the maintenance thing. I know someone who did that at a hospital but wasnt allowed to do anything, he just had to book trades to come do it which cost call out fees etc. Its a rort

This isnt quite accurate (state gov employee and BIL is fed).

 

[burge13]

This isnt quite accurate (state gov employee and BIL is fed).

Im state government.

They run some budget changes to wind things in every now and then but there's so little control over FTE or going over budget that nothing sticks

There's no formal policy stating what I said, but its so frequently done its known by all

 

[phantom13]

Im state government.

They run some budget changes to wind things in every now and then but there's so little control over FTE or going over budget that nothing sticks

There's no formal policy stating what I said, but its so frequently done its known by all

Ive been in capital delivery across 3 different building authorities.

By and large the carry over stuff on major capex is pretty easy to get year on year and as stuff reaches completion its usually redistributed to adress other election commitments or issues.

Ocassionally that which isnt spent is lost but in my experience its not very common. I think the issue is more that culturally people believe that so dont bother trying to bring things under budget.

 

[burge13]

Ive been in capital delivery across 3 different building authorities.

By and large the carry over stuff on major capex is pretty easy to get year on year and as stuff reaches completion its usually redistributed to adress other election commitments or issues.

Ocassionally that which isnt spent is lost but in my experience its not very common. I think the issue is more that culturally people believe that so dont bother trying to bring things under budget.

There is quite literally no incentive or benefit to. Especially with FTE

Bloat is insane in so many departments but what incentive is there for an executive to do the right thing and clean house? They dont get paid more to be "the bad guy", if anything more FTE is approved. Its out of control.

A major hospital here is 100s of millions over "budget", outsources heaps or operations at even more cost than that, in many wards has over double the nurse FTE to industry standard requirements, and there is very little appetite to do better. Infrastructure is even worse, ive never seen such bloat in my life

 

[phantom13]

There is quite literally no incentive or benefit to. Especially with FTE

Bloat is insane in so many departments but what incentive is there for an executive to do the right thing and clean house? They dont get paid more to be "the bad guy", if anything more FTE is approved. Its out of control.

A major hospital here is 100s of millions over "budget", outsources heaps or operations at even more cost than that, in many wards has over double the nurse FTE to industry standard requirements, and there is very little appetite to do better. Infrastructure is even worse, ive never seen such bloat in my life

Yeh opex wise i cant say i have much coverage on. What your saying makes sense.

Capex less so. Were also in a position (Vic) where 5% of the major projects account for about 90% of the budget overspend (its probably not quite that much) so its all pretty dire when news bites pick it up. In reality outside road and rail most projects are on or under budget.

 

[burge13]

Yeh opex wise i cant say i have much coverage on. What your saying makes sense.

Capex less so. Were also in a position (Vic) where 5% of the major projects account for about 90% of the budget overspend (its probably not quite that much) so its all pretty dire when news bites pick it up. In reality outside road and rail most projects are on or under budget.

Projects are even worse.? Private world seem to be able to stick to budgets... unless of course theyre charging the government then there's "unseen cost blowouts, please pay $1B more".

I also think as far as being under budget, dont you think they are VERY generous budgets? Looks good being "under" but could still be far, far cheaper. Road budgets are ****ed. Blown budgets and blown deadlines. Not involved with this directly but seldom get done on time, cheaply that I hear of

 

[phantom13]

Projects are even worse.? Private world seem to be able to stick to budgets... unless of course theyre charging the government then there's "unseen cost blowouts, please pay $1B more".

I also think as far as being under budget, dont you think they are VERY generous budgets? Looks good being "under" but could still be far, far cheaper. Road budgets are ****ed. Blown budgets and blown deadlines. Not involved with this directly but seldom get done on time, cheaply that I hear of

Nah, youre wrong on both fronts there.

Outside of melb metro, LXRA and West connex (or whatever its called) just about everything else is under budget and broadly around the mark on time (each building authority did its own audits ive seen them). Problem is that those three account for about 90% of the total expenditure so the hundred of smaller project (hospital and school refurbs) dont get mentioned.

And not really on the budget estimates. Again, project development get pushed pretty hard to maxmise bang for buck, if anything by the time most projects get to delivery stage theyre being noted as being under funded (no doubt some of that is gov getting 10% added from the market)

 

[peetoo]

Projects are even worse.? Private world seem to be able to stick to budgets... unless of course theyre charging the government then there's "unseen cost blowouts, please pay $1B more".

I also think as far as being under budget, dont you think they are VERY generous budgets? Looks good being "under" but could still be far, far cheaper. Road budgets are ****ed. Blown budgets and blown deadlines. Not involved with this directly but seldom get done on time, cheaply that I hear of

Private often don’t have to disclose. And much of the work done in australia does include govt in some way

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeh opex wise i cant say i have much coverage on. What your saying makes sense.

Capex less so. Were also in a position (Vic) where 5% of the major projects account for about 90% of the budget overspend (its probably not quite that much) so its all pretty dire when news bites pick it up. In reality outside road and rail most projects are on or under budget.

The Vic Desal plant was neither road or rail.
The Adelaide plant at 3/4 the capacity cost less than half.
New ones in the middle east still cost less than the vic Desal plant did. A lot less.

Seems like some government contracts have "rort me " written on it , and no-one is answerable.

 

[burge13]

Private often don’t have to disclose. And much of the work done in australia does include govt in some way

They dont have to disclose but if they went over as often as our government projects do, theyd soon go out of business. The government is taken for a ride by the public world and they show zero backbone (little incentive to)

The PPP here funding the RAH is absurd. Spotless and a few other companies make out like bandits

That building was also at one stage the 3rd most expensive building in the southern hemisphere, a public hospital!!! That had quite a few budget blowouts, but thats ok, infinite money when it comes to paying private mates out of the public purse

 

[burge13]

The Vic Desal plant was neither road or rail.
The Adelaide plant at 3/4 the capacity cost less than half.
New ones in the middle east still cost less than the vic Desal plant did. A lot less.

Seems like some government contracts have "rort me " written on it , and no-one is answerable.

A roundabout near me took months to do, and millions of dollars. I wish I had government contracts, just write your own cheque.

Mates and I joked we could have done it quicker and cheaper with some shovels. Not sure how much of a joke that was looking back...

 

[phantom13]

Private often don’t have to disclose. And much of the work done in australia does include govt in some way

The issue with the PPP gear (and i know SFA about em) is that the way that contract mechanism and tendering process works is that all the estimates are best guesses off pretty fluffy info and the financial models need to be assessed with looooong operational contract costs considered as well, so any changes end up costing shitloads and the "contract sum" at the time its signed up is meaningless.

Its why the news reports saying "$10b cost blowouts" is not really accurate, cause the original cost estimates meant bugger all.

AND to be clear here, im not defending this, its a shitful way to contract and do business (noting i also dont have a better solution)

 

[phantom13]

The Vic Desal plant was neither road or rail.
The Adelaide plant at 3/4 the capacity cost less than half.
New ones in the middle east still cost less than the vic Desal plant did. A lot less.

Seems like some government contracts have "rort me " written on it , and no-one is answerable.

Desals been complete for a while (id note that the covid iso centres were similar).

I did say most not all. Some have overruns but outside road and rail its minimal but its still 5% of the projects accounting for 90% of the overrun. Also see below my PPP comment, Desal was a form of PPP and it was cooked.

They dont have to disclose but if they went over as often as our government projects do, theyd soon go out of business. The government is taken for a ride by the public world and they show zero backbone (little incentive to)

The PPP here funding the RAH is absurd. Spotless and a few other companies make out like bandits

That building was also at one stage the 3rd most expensive building in the southern hemisphere, a public hospital!!! That had quite a few budget blowouts, but thats ok, infinite money when it comes to paying private mates out of the public purse

Its difficult too though cause no government project has any profit projections (public hospitals lose money). Its alot easier to justify investment privately when you can turn it into a profit. Gov projects absolutely pay a premium, im not saying they dont, but thats the market, we (gov) have no control of that.

A roundabout near me took months to do, and millions of dollars. I wish I had government contracts, just write your own cheque.

Mates and I joked we could have done it quicker and cheaper with some shovels. Not sure how much of a joke that was looking back...

Again, roads, ****ing nightmare stuff, standards, safety, etc. Also intergov (local, authority, state and usually fed co-ordination). The issue is you and your mates probably could but are you all qualified and licensed to get it designed and certfified. Like it or not if its not ticked off by every man and his dog (all at a nice clip) then the first accident at it has the gov getting sued and you and your mates PI getting rooted.

The issue with the PPP gear (and i know SFA about em) is that the way that contract mechanism and tendering process works is that all the estimates are best guesses off pretty fluffy info and the financial models need to be assessed with looooong operational contract costs considered as well, so any changes end up costing shitloads and the "contract sum" at the time its signed up is meaningless.

Its why the news reports saying "$10b cost blowouts" is not really accurate, cause the original cost estimates meant bugger all.

AND to be clear here, im not defending this, its a shitful way to contract and do business (noting i also dont have a better solution)

 

[burge13]

Again, roads, ****ing nightmare stuff, standards, safety, etc. Also intergov (local, authority, state and usually fed co-ordination). The issue is you and your mates probably could but are you all qualified and licensed to get it designed and certfified. Like it or not if its not ticked off by every man and his dog (all at a nice clip) then the first accident at it has the gov getting sued and you and your mates PI getting rooted.

The roundabout is a circle, Phantom. Please dont justify obvious rorts. Just because all these wheels claim to need greasing, doesnt make it so. They are ripping us off blind