Autopsy Autopsy V Carlton

[R00StaR]

It's time to look forward. We can't change what's happened in the past no matter how much we'd like to.

List management, drafting, player development, coaching.....it's all been shite.

You can only control what you do from now on. Watching the 2's yesterday, we had Comben, Dawson, Maley and Sellers controlling the air. Goad was getting a valuable lesson from a legit AFL ruckman. This time last year the only one of that lot on the list was Comben. That's a step forward to me.

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Im not casting blame, just stating why it seems to have taken so long. Finishing low with access to those early first rounders is meant to be the catch up.
We can even include LDU in 2017 - damn so long already.
So excluding Sheezel, Wardlaw, Mckercher and Duursma who all just arrived, we have LDU and Powell to show for it.

Then looking how long LDU has been around perhaps he is like Zuurhar and wondering if it'll take too long. If they did leave and we got first round compos again we're pretty much all the way back to building a list around the 22/23 boys. Of course that would 2 top end from 22/23/24 and 25 which would set us amazingly but extends the pain for quite sometime.

 

[Masked Avenger]

I was dismissing most of the umpiring as a non factor in our shitness up until the third quarter. Then in the period of like 5 minutes we had 3 attacking chains absolutely kliled and given to the Blues, with two of those IN THE FORWARD 50! It was then I knew that the day was over. We still drop heads easily and seeing our attacks be actively neutered like that was getting to everyone.

But hey they gave us a make up free in the D50 a little later so it's all fine

If you take out the unusually high umpire influenced scores Carlton directly got and consider how little we got out of our blokes over 25, this was far from the sky's falling in type of result.

All I see are kids and less experienced players do more of the heavy lifting each week.

 

[Billy Not Really]

If any teams middle collapsed they'd lose...

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Competent teams don’t collapse and stay collapsed for the majority of the game, and a good defence will mitigate that.

 

[Samsquanch]

Has anyone got a clip of what JB said?

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[Masked Avenger]

View attachment 1944232

It's beyond laughable how often the umpires are properly congratulated for the way they umpire grand finals - ie let it go and only pay the bloody obvious ones - and yet they do the complete opposite during the home and away season

 

[DuckYeah]

It's beyond laughable how often the umpires are properly congratulated for the way they umpire grand finals - ie let it go and only pay the bloody obvious ones - and yet they do the complete opposite during the home and away season

Thats the benchmark.

 

[Samsquanch]

Jono Brown was right, we were never going to win because of the umpires but * me that was the poorest display of umpiring I’ve seen. When are these umpires becoming professional and full time. It’s a disgrace.

Someone mentioned that Brereton also made some references to umpiring decisions.

I did think there were more than a few bad decisions last night but it was far from some of the worse runs we copped in the 80s and of course, in the 90s we had the Geesh, who hated North and he especially hated Carey so we rarely ever got a decent run.

I recall Barassi on World of Sport canning umpires in the 70s - he chose a week when North won to avoid being accused of claiming that we lost due to poor decision making but he was forthright in calling out a problem that has never been fixed over the entire time that the sport has existed.

OK, the AFL have increased the number of umpires in an acknowledgment that there was a real problem, however, the standard hasn't improved one iota. In fact, by scraping together the extra numbers some serious inconsistencies have been introduced and frankly, a lot of umpires simply suck.

I honestly would have thought that the best recruits to the brotherhood in yellow would be young hopefuls who didn't make it as players for whatever reason but for all I know those blokes might still earn enough to keep them happy by playing in lesser leagues so the gene pool for umps remains shallow.

 

[R00StaR]

Just on the throwing thing as i watch Essendon get a goal on the back of one. I wonder why when a player is low and flicks it up its a throw but if they do the same at waste height its play on. The ball its still going up from the action of one hand, never understood why the difference.

 

[Devington]

It's beyond laughable how often the umpires are properly congratulated for the way they umpire grand finals - ie let it go and only pay the bloody obvious ones - and yet they do the complete opposite during the home and away season

It's one of the things that always makes me wonder. I don't think individual umps go out there and cheat for a specific result. I DO wonder whether they get very specific instructions, from their bosses, which on their face aren't biased but in effect are.

Finals for example: let nearly everything go that is incidental (we want the spectacle).

vs

Big team doing badly vs some team no one cares about: Oh yeah make sure to keep an eye on X,Y,Z today as it has been an issue (hasn't actually been an issue, and a focus on that effectively favors one team).

I mean we literally hear them say to keep their eyes on certain players, and it's clear they give some blokes the benefit of the doubt and others get none of it. Things like this wouldn't overly surprise me anymore. I knew the AFL were unethical ****s, but I thought it mostly amounted to being two faced campaigners embracing sins and violence while preaching how good the sport is for kids, and then trying to put everything possible under a carpet when things go badly. But after reading about the pre testing and how many players go onto the 'medical model' vs ZERO second strikes (let alone third strikes) I now wouldn't be surprised if they actively try to manage other results.

 

[DuckYeah]

It's one of the things that always makes me wonder. I don't think individual umps go out there and cheat for a specific result. I DO wonder whether they get very specific instructions, from their bosses, which on their face aren't biased but in effect are.

Finals for example: let nearly everything go that is incidental (we want the spectacle).

vs

Big team doing badly vs some team no one cares about: Oh yeah make sure to keep an eye on X,Y,Z today as it has been an issue (hasn't actually been an issue, and a focus on that effectively favors one team).

I mean we literally hear them say to keep their eyes on certain players, and it's clear they give some blokes the benefit of the doubt and others get none of it. Things like this wouldn't overly surprise me anymore. I knew the AFL were unethical *s, but I thought it mostly amounted to being two faced campaigners embracing sins and violence while preaching how good the sport is for kids, and then trying to put everything possible under a carpet when things go badly. But after reading about the pre testing and how many players go onto the 'medical model' vs ZERO second strikes (let alone third strikes) I now wouldn't be surprised if they actively try to manage other results.

Its the only conspiracy I believe in. An agenda to hurt North for thumbing our nose at them almost 20 years ago

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

It's time to look forward. We can't change what's happened in the past no matter how much we'd like to.

List management, drafting, player development, coaching.....it's all been shite.

You can only control what you do from now on. Watching the 2's yesterday, we had Comben, Dawson, Maley and Sellers controlling the air. Goad was getting a valuable lesson from a legit AFL ruckman. This time last year the only one of that lot on the list was Comben. That's a step forward to me.

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All this means exactly sh*t unless those good vfl performances are rewarded.

My guess is that those players will be left to “really bang the door down” long enough for them to (god-forbid) get injured.

 

[SMaturin]

“The hardest sport in the world to umpire” is the biggest fallacy in the game.

 

[Roostorm]

View attachment 1944232

HOORAYYYYY…..that is all…..

 

[Mcarcherey]

Im not casting blame, just stating why it seems to have taken so long. Finishing low with access to those early first rounders is meant to be the catch up.
We can even include LDU in 2017 - damn so long already.
So excluding Sheezel, Wardlaw, Mckercher and Duursma who all just arrived, we have LDU and Powell to show for it.

Then looking how long LDU has been around perhaps he is like Zuurhar and wondering if it'll take too long. If they did leave and we got first round compos again we're pretty much all the way back to building a list around the 22/23 boys. Of course that would 2 top end from 22/23/24 and 25 which would set us amazingly but extends the pain for quite sometime.

Jy, McKay, TT were handy first rounders that developed well. I don't see your point, Philips is the only one that's not a success and that's still a work in progress....

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[Mcarcherey]

Competent teams don’t collapse and stay collapsed for the majority of the game, and a good defence will mitigate that.

No they don't, but that's what you posted...

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[Billy Not Really]

No they don't, but that's what you posted...

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Because we have no mitigation for when we do collapse hence why we lose? What’s hard to understand about it, do I have to spell out everything

 

[7577969923]

Because we have no mitigation for when we do collapse hence why we lose? What’s hard to understand about it, do I have to spell out everything

I think you need to consider the possibility that Clarko isn't that worried about wins in 2023. He may coach those moments very differently if he had a team that were genuine contenders.

 

[Mcarcherey]

Because we have no mitigation for when we do collapse hence why we lose? What’s hard to understand about it, do I have to spell out everything

You agreed that if the midfield collapses it's not possible to win in the first place. Perhaps the midfield not collapsing should be the primary concern then see how the backline is looking....

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[Gasometer]

I think you need to consider the possibility that Clarko isn't that worried about wins in 2023. He may coach those moments very differently if he had a team that were genuine contenders.

Numbers your back…!

And getting the wrong numbers!

 

[7577969923]

Numbers your back…!

And getting the wrong numbers!

That is true Gaso! Clarko probably cares far less about wins in 23 than he does in 24. And he probably doesn't care that much about wins in 24. All about learning and laying foundations in 24.

 

[desie]

You should have refused the coffee.

Should have thrown it at him and said ‘have a free kick for that motherf*cker’.

 

[Supa_Nova]

Yes umpires were terrible. Yes we lost by almost 10 goals

But Carlton were good. They look a team.
And we KEPT coming. We played some good footy to.

I get feeling down that we don't have a win yet, but we as a team aren't great and are young. Yes it's been years, but we had to rebuild again - it sucks but if you cop it watch another team. The pile ons are just for the sake of pile ons.

The LDU one for me is perplexing.

"Daicos is soft" - he is also accumulator and all australian.

"Dusty doesn't defend" don't even need to explain this one.

I could go on. My point being, he's our player. No not as good as those elite ones, but he is our version at this stage and a gun at it. Dusty when richmond were bad failed... that final they played us in 2015 he didn't fire a shot (similar ages?).


So calm down. We suck and it's frustrating. But back the boys, the culture and the club - because I tell you know we are gonna have worse losses then that potentially this year... but I also think some good wins to.

 

[ohmygewd]

Its the only conspiracy I believe in. An agenda to hurt North for thumbing our nose at them almost 20 years ago

Nah, bottom teams always get the shite calls especially against a top 8/4 team...although yesterday had some head scratches that you would throw an opposition fan off the 2nd level.

If you watch the Carlton players they lift their arms anytime they think they will be tackled.
Also if get caught in a tackle they drop to the ground and proceed to throw the ball away on the ground or just wait for the whistle and a ball up.

If you get caught and try and break the tackle, the most likely outcome is a HTB against you.

Still trying to decide which was the biggest Umpire howler yesterday, the HTB not paid when Xerri caught the running Carlton player who took a handball receive in the center, or the Eddie Fords throw that cost us a goal when the TV replay showed it wasn't a throw?

Hard to say but the umpire destroyed the game with pettiness while being unable to see obvious frees.

Spot on!!

I think our midfield group as a whole, which now from HB to HF and everything in the middle, is more talented than Carlton's but we just lack the experience, technique of lifting your arms in a tackle, going to ground and just releasing the ball to even how to disguise a throw.
Also, our core midfield consisted of:
1 x 27yo 127 gamer winger in his 2nd season at the club.
1 x 26yo 136 gamer co-captain who is slowly being phased out but still a very good midfielder.
1 x 25yo 36 gamer ruck who is fast repaying the club on why they allowed a North HoF ruckmen to walk away from the club.
1 x 24yo 88 gamer soon to be all-australian if he plays all year.
1 x 23yo 81 gamer winger quickly establishing himself as one of the best two runners in the team and captain material.
1 x 23yo 46 gamer winger just arrived at the club.

1 x 22yo, 48 gamer JUST starting to believe in himself.
1 x 22yo 33 gamer, still trying his darnest to be in team.
1 x 19yo, probably our second rising star winner and just learning how to manage his body whilst showing how he couldn't have been the No.1 pick in 2022.
ADD 1 x 18yo, 3 gamer who shouldn't core yet but will most likely be by the end of the year.

We keep this core, and they learn the finer arts of conning the umpire, it will come along real fast!!

You take out age and experience of Cripps, Hewett and Acres and l guarantee you a win yesterday!!

 

[The acurate one]

There are people in here that both think we are capable of feats we are miles off, while at the same time writing off a season after 3 games.

Who in their right mind had us beating Carlton? Or GWS? Or next week the Brions? or the week after the Cats in Geelong?

we were/are never going to be near these sides. If a miracle happens just enjoy it.

And we hit a Freo who is ahead of us in development, and while sure we beat them last year we are younger and less expereinced this year.

We have a backline that is full of undesized KPD who have played a collective 3 games together. We have a singular threatening KPF.

These things are not easily fixed. They are going to take time, s**t loads of time.

Round 6 is the first time we will get a crack at a side that is legitimately around where we are. They are also going to go into that game and be wanting to win. Becuase it is very likely they will also be 0-5 when they get there.

This has been a rough road, and it is not getting any smoother in the short term. We atleast seem to be travelling in one direction is a cohesive club now.

We are not winning many games of football this year. THe secon half of the season it opens up a bit and hopefully (just hopefully) we can get some wins on the board then after a pretty lean first half.

People losing their s**t after this game I legit don't understand. If you thought we would win I understand less.

With all due respect I don't think many thought we'd win.

I know why I'm pissy I though can't talk for others .

Scott - should be on a wing but lost out to Stephens .
CCJ - didn't deserve a game
Finbar - isn't ready. What he's not 2 kicks ready, what is the bar for a rookie.
Ford - sub, why
stephenson - regardless of individual thoughts of him, he's been trash and shouldn't be playing.
Tucker - wtf
I am fairly sure the majority of posters would agree we cannot play Dawson, Pink amd Corr in the same side.
Now im not suggesting I have the answers, that isn't my job. My job is to ask the questions.
LDU and Powell offer nothing going the other way. Apparently we know that but wtf are we doing about it.

Selection will be interesting or I feel it should be for our next clash.

 

[Samsquanch]

If you watch the Carlton players they lift their arms anytime they think they will be tackled.
Also if get caught in a tackle they drop to the ground and proceed to throw the ball away on the ground or just wait for the whistle and a ball up.

If you get caught and try and break the tackle, the most likely outcome is a HTB against you.

My father in law and I discussed this at length during the game, as we walked to Flinders St station and on the train trip home...

On many (most) occasions when tackled, North players attempted to legitimately dispose of the ball. A few times they got a fist to the ball and often, they didn't. But they were frequently pinged regardless. Carlton players rarely tried to dispose of the ball and they often dropped as you mentioned. They seemed to be rarely pinged.

UMPIRES if you are reading - you have this entirely the wrong way around. If a player has prior, gets tackled and makes an immediate genuine attempt to legitimately dispose of the ball then it's play on. If they cuddle the ball in and drop then they have not made an attempt to dispose of the ball and that is holding the ball.

Oh, and Nick Larkey would like a quiet word about prior opportunity while you're still listening.