Autopsy Autopsy vs Dogs

[Briedis]

Goldy and Sheezel were the stand out players for me today. No idea why TT was being played in defense, was much better when he was pushed up the ground once Bergman came on. TT was turning the ball over a lot today, which is very unusual for him, and was running below 50% efficiency at one point. The whole team was poor with their hands today. Lots of two-grabbing and fumbles. Any time you had to dispose of the ball efficiently is lost with a fumble.

I don't see what the coaches see in Spicer. I think he should go back to the VFL immediately. I have never seen a small player with worse skills below his knees... and that is what you need from your smalls. Clean below the knees.

We have some structural issues that need to be sorted. When we try and move the ball slowly up the ground, we seem to use 3-4 short kicks across the backline, then long bomb kick up the line. It's too predictable and easily defended by opposition teams. They either outmark us or just hit the ball out and Doggies were on top in the clearances today so the ball came back into our defensive 50 regularly. We have more success getting inside 50 when we move the ball quickly (usually by hand), but if the final kick does not hit a target we have not had time to set a defensive structure and the Doggies just switched quickly and run the ball into their attacking 50 very easily and without much pressure being able to be applied by us.

1. When moving the ball slowly, we need to be able to find pockets of space UP THE GROUND that slowly progress us towards goal. This means our players need to LEAD, they need to MOVE towards the player with the ball, they need to open up space with smart running.
2. When moving the ball quickly, we need need to have more discipline with the last kick inside 50. Unless there is someone totally in the clear, we should not be centering the ball to 30-40 meters out. Turnovers here will almost certainly result in oppositions getting inside 50.

 

[Briedis]

I need to clear this up as what the telecast showed is Thomas being Weightmans direct opponent.

THIS ISNT THE CASE.

Thomas had Bailey Smith for the first 3 quarters and lined up on him for each centre bounce.

Our defence is useless in transition off a turnover so it looked like Thomas had lost his man for 2 of the goals. He was trying to cover.

Nah, TT was standing on him at centre bounces for the first half .... was right in front of us.

 

[czero]

I’ve realised I’ve overreacted, I’m just so sick of losing.
But I’ve realised I’ve been far too quick to be “sick of honourable losses”. It’s a vast improvement on where we’ve been. If you told me this time last year that we’d be playing like this led largely by the kids at this stage, I’d have taken it for sure.

My frustrations aren’t so much at the team on the day because most of them have been trying their hardest which is all we’ve asked. I just lose my cool a bit when I see, for instance, Corr as sub, or Turner named, or Greenwood dropped after offering us so much the week before. My frustrations aren’t at our potential or even the fact that we’re only showing glimpses of it - I’m just concerned that we won’t reach it through poor decisions in regards to selection and who should be leading the way on the park at this point in time.

I don’t doubt the ceiling for this group is very high, but we need to do things right to reach it. It’s not inevitable.

If we’re grown adults sitting on our a$ses getting upset at these non-efforts and clangers from senior players going unpunished, imagine how it feels to be a kid like Wardlaw or Sheezel actually playing, who are putting it in 100% giving everything they have to this club. Imagine how they feel sometimes looking around and they’re already light years ahead of certain others. Or seeing seniors who they have to carry when it should really be the other way round at this stage.

I hope it’s lighting a fire in their belly as opposed to the contrary. They’re all signing up and we’re thrilled to see it. But they need the right things done by them in order to be the best versions of themselves and lead us out of the mire. These signings and the way they’re playing would suggest that they’re taking ownership of their roles within this club, they see a future and most importantly a future where it’s up to them to write history. We can’t blow it.

I believe they will succeed. But I don’t know that they will. It’s not inevitable. If we keep canceling out their hard work by picking old players who have not been and will never be great, or who don’t go when it’s their turn, don’t lead… maybe we’re just spinning our wheels. “We may as well lose with all the kids”. Hey, it’s working for Hawthorn. They’ve gone all in with the youth and they’re at least getting the odd win to validate that decision. They’re getting that winning feeling, we still don’t know how to win. It shouldn’t be like this. What have they got that we haven’t?

So apologies for my negativity and things said that were way out of line. It’s just been a looong time since 1999 and it’s been a heart in the mouth ride since then with nothing really to show. We’ve all been through a lot with this great club. I’m glad we still have the club at all. And we all want this current plan to work. We’re probably just expressing that sentiment in different ways.

This group has the potential not just to be ‘good’ or tread water for a couple decades. I see a potential to be great and that’s a very different thing as we know, having seen both in most of our lifetimes. We’re neither good nor great at the moment and this is somewhere many of us have actually never been.
I think we all just want to nail it and get back to enjoying the footy.

Up the Roos, forever.

Yeah certainly understand your feelings, though I don't agree with all of your concerns.

Most kids are far more concerned with how they play individually than anything else - its not like they are being embarrassed each game - there is good media and they are not being made to feel like the world thinks their team has no hope on socials or whatever. If we can see it, you can be damn sure the people and players in the club can see it. The kids are all growing up together and we have old players who are on the out, and even a genuine top 10 player in the game with LDU - Its normal, this side is a new one we spluttered through covid to create but now has that set of players that we will take for the next 5. Everyone from the 26-27 age and under - thats our team. The ziebs and the goldies and the halls and turners just wont be here in 2 years, many in one year. They all know that and we don't need them, so for now while this nucleus grows we keep the oldies performing well enough so that they add stability and knowledge.

I don't think the club has any problem dropping senior players because of form as well, we just cannot possible assess them as well as the club does. This isn't the brad scott era - we are cutting players because they are not doing the role well enough. People are literally playing themselves in via the VFL and fitness (though George is probably still not fit enough - in the high 50's %game time each match still), and even when they might deserve it we are still playing the kids if the senior player is 30+ with little contract left.

 

[R00StaR]

You watched a different game to me. Our midfield were absolutely smashed, no positives in there today


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Very surprised we got smashed in the middle that bad, but the team worked hard for 4 quarters. Credit to them all staying in it so long given that smashing.

 

[Event Horizon]

It would be way too simplistic to say that Bont and Weightman were the difference. Yet it is not without merit.

We have plenty to work on - midfield method in particular. But I’m just enjoying the fact we aren’t being blown out of the water for 5 weeks now.

Hope we can get 2-3 wins after the bye to give much needed nourishment to both, players and supporters


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[czero]

There’s no doubt we’re improving. There’s also no doubt we have holes in every area of the ground - that backline though - groan. We can say the backline held up well in the face of 70 i50’s but they are also very much responsible for the repeat entries with their 1990’s boot it round the corner style rebounds.

We have to suck it up and start committing top-end resources to the back half. Naughton on ABC radio after the game said that at half-time they put a real focus on restricting Sheez coming of half back coz that’s when we looked dangerous. Dude isn’t even a back man he’s just a shitload better than the dross we have currently.

It was the midfield that failed - not the defenders. It is almost impossible to defend a centre clearance with no pressure on the kick inside 50. That and turnovers. All part of the process.

We missed having the extra bigger body with LDU in this one once goldy started losing the ruck contest.

 

[scottywiper]

It was the midfield that failed - not the defenders. It is almost impossible to defend a centre clearance with no pressure on the kick inside 50. That and turnovers. All part of the process.

We missed having the extra bigger body with LDU in this one once goldy started losing the ruck contest.

The mids got beat, but that is a horrid backline. Devoid of class, run and quality ball use.

 

[tazaa]

Nah, TT was standing on him at centre bounces for the first half .... was right in front of us.

I saw him running with Bailey Smith throughout. It doesn’t make sense why Thomas would be minding Weightman who played deep forward and yet Thomas found himself rebounding off half back.
ferball it may have been Thomas started on Weightman and then there was a switch after the bounce

 

[Ocha905]

Most pleasing aspect is that we're becoming a competitive team despite obvious limitations (lack of quality senior players and experience of our up and comers).

The list of players that will be a part of our next contending team-

FB Bergman McKay? ???
HB ??? Logue ???
C Scott Wardlaw Powell?
HF Sheezel ??? Thomas?
FF Zurharr Larkey Stephenson?
Foll ??? LDU Simpkin

Int Ford? Phillips ??? ???

Basically we're still trying to find a third of the team.
Powell, Stevo and Ford are 90% in.
However McKay seems gone and I can't think straight about Tarryn.
Goater, Curtis, George, Xerri, Comben and CCJ all have varying potential to be included.
The draft should add at least one bona fide inclusion.

We need to hit FA and the trade market hard for reliable KPP's and backs. Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

is the exact player we need in our backline as an example. Unfortunately he's locked away for another 4 seasons.

Overall the team is coming together decently given how far behind the eight ball we were and the lack of decent leadership from coaches (until this year) and senior players for the most part.

Edit- Forgot to add Phillips.

 

[R00StaR]

Clear signs of improvement, the most noticeable being we have assembled some young mids who show the ability to flip the ball by hand with speed to create outside run - Phillips, Sheezel, Powell, Wardlaw (albeit down today), to join Jy (and LDU on return). When they get well oiled, that group will give the likes of Stephenson and Scott a lot to run onto.

The other comment I'd make is CCJ - gives us something structurally, shows glimpses so we need to persist, but the days of the lumbering ruckman are gone. He needs to buckle down to an absolutely flogging in the pre-season to improve his running ability - he could lose a couple of kegs without compromising too much strength, and if that went into improved running, we'll be better off

Yep despite getting smashed in midfield im not concerned, the talent is there. Today they were just run off their feet and out bodied.

I reckon CCJ looks in better nik now than he ever has. Still some work to go but clear he's working hard.

 

[Spud11]

Does anyone think the inclusion of CCJ has made Larkey’s job a bit more…achievable?

 

[amaz199]

Does anyone think the inclusion of CCJ has made Larkey’s job a bit more…achievable?

No, CCJ is a bust and should be traded/delisted at the end of the season...

 

[Ichiro #51]

It was the midfield that failed - not the defenders. It is almost impossible to defend a centre clearance with no pressure on the kick inside 50. That and turnovers. All part of the process.

We missed having the extra bigger body with LDU in this one once goldy started losing the ruck contest.

I don’t disagree with you - the midfield got beaten too. But it’s pretty rare for centre clearance dominance to decide a game these days. It’s the that and turnovers part that makes it impossible to win. We need to start looking for the best future intercept and rebounding backs right now.

 

[the big lebowski]

Let’s talk about CCJ. What’s even going to become of him? Don’t think the tank is there to be a modern day ruckman. Is his purpose just to have a tall defender allocated to him to let another off the chain?

2 more yeas to run on his contract. And hopefully it’s playing vfl footy. But who knows how comben will go after his injury. We certainly can’t expect him to play 22 games next year. We absolutely have to get another tall forward option at the draft having ignored it for so long.

So 2 years worth of vfl, relief afl might be a good result and then it’s probably good bye unless he magically improves.

 

[czero]

The mids got beat, but that is a horrid backline. Devoid of class, run and quality ball use.

Class isnt something any backline is filled with imo. =D

I just don't know how any team can defend centre clearances with no pressure on the ball carriers kick inside 50. And of course we have those turnovers that will continue to be high for us for a while yet. Defenders have no defensive grid to block leads AND keep within a certain spacing to force a 2on1 AND stay with and watch their man running patterns (who only needs to look at the play).

We usually win that battle and oppo teams rely on our turnovers to beat us (seemingly to me anyway).

I will say I do wish goater was fit to be building in the backline this season.

 

[czero]

I don’t disagree with you - the midfield got beaten too. But it’s pretty rare for centre clearance dominance to decide a game these days. It’s the that and turnovers part that makes it impossible to win. We need to start looking for the best future intercept and rebounding backs right now.

Well thats what I was saying - its both. But its the way that it came out of the middle for them. So clean and quick. Like a turnover but with all the forwards ready to go.

 

[czero]

2 more yeas to run on his contract. And hopefully it’s playing vfl footy. But who knows how comben will go after his injury. We certainly can’t expect him to play 22 games next year. We absolutely have to get another tall forward option at the draft having ignored it for so long.

So 2 years worth of vfl, relief afl might be a good result and then it’s probably good bye unless he magically improves.

Where does Bayden George fit?

 

[Ichiro #51]

Well thats what I was saying - its both. But its the way that it came out of the middle for them. So clean and quick. Like a turnover but with all the forwards ready to go.

That’s fair. Bloody hell, a lot of hard work ahead of us.

 

[the big lebowski]

Where does Bayden George fit?

Ultimately Larkey and Zuhar are our only locked in 7 forwards. At least in terms of historic output.

Then you’ve got sleevo, Thomas, sheezel as probable locks but also play other positions. So I’ll only count them as one player.

Curtis looks promising but the jury is out. If he doesn’t come on then George will be gunning for his spot. If sleevo drops off there’s a spot. If Thomas leaves there’s a spot.

Another key forward and a genuine small quick crumber is what we needs in addition to the above.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Some incredibly negative reactions in here. We were in a game we shouldn't have been in after getting smashed in the middle, on the spread and an avalanche of inside 50s against. Even with that we managed to be efficient scoring inside 50 against a team with All-Australian level mids.
I wouldn't say the floggings are behind us as development is never linear and unfortunately we will get more inconsistency when the senior players are moved on for younger kids who aren't as experienced, but lets hope the group can have this resolve to keep pushing when the game looks lost.
Going forward we need players who are willing to compete and those who aren't up for the fight can move on (Corr, McKay, Hall etc)
As for Goldy, I'd give him another year but father time is catching up with him, he looked cooked and English destroyed him.
The game highlighted our lack of running power and skill across all lines as well as a lack of pressure and our poor defensive back six is a problem.
Unfortunately those problems across all lines will take multiple draft and trade periods to fix and development time is needed so there is no quick fix.
Our fitness levels will also need to improve us the next few years as we'll get exposed against teams like the Crows on the spread.
We have the bones of a young team to build around and their performances will still be up and down as development time is put into them over the next few years but we can see a level of improvement in both individuals and the collective even if it is not resulting in wins just yet.

 

[DuckYeah]

I'm sure i heard Browny at one stage say that we had conceded 9 goals by turnover's, talk about shoot yourself in the foot, again.

Thats it. Turnovers. The game is a turnover game. Less turnovers than your opponent and you’ll likely win the game. Thats what AFL is these days. Its not a stoppage game, its not a contest game its a turnover game.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

There’s no doubt we’re improving. There’s also no doubt we have holes in every area of the ground - that backline though - groan. We can say the backline held up well in the face of 70 i50’s but they are also very much responsible for the repeat entries with their 1990’s boot it round the corner style rebounds.

We have to suck it up and start committing top-end resources to the back half. Naughton on ABC radio after the game said that at half-time they put a real focus on restricting Sheez coming of half back coz that’s when we looked dangerous. Dude isn’t even a back man he’s just a shitload better than the dross we have currently.

The only reliable ways we have cleared the ball out of defensive 50 have been through Sheezel, Ziebell, Logue and Bergman.

Bergman wasn’t playing and Ziebell has let himself down a tad over the last couple of weeks. It felt like Logue was covering the man/space of McKay/McDonald and Corr the whole game.

We desperately need some more class on the HB line over the summer. A high draft pick/recruit who can come in with speed, smarts and skills.

We also need a functioning midfield to assist the defence. We were absolutely towelled up yesterday in the middle. Like, we haven’t played so poorly and had so many players off the boil in there all year.

Somehow, we only lose by 21.

 

[kool kangas]

Some incredibly negative reactions in here. We were in a game we shouldn't have been in after getting smashed in the middle, on the spread and an avalanche of inside 50s against. Even with that we managed to be efficient scoring inside 50 against a team with All-Australian level mids.
I wouldn't say the floggings are behind us as development is never linear and unfortunately we will get more inconsistency when the senior players are moved on for younger kids who aren't as experienced, but lets hope the group can have this resolve to keep pushing when the game looks lost.
Going forward we need players who are willing to compete and those who aren't up for the fight can move on (Corr, McKay, Hall etc)
As for Goldy, I'd give him another year but father time is catching up with him, he looked cooked and English destroyed him.
The game highlighted our lack of running power and skill across all lines as well as a lack of pressure and our poor defensive back six is a problem.
Unfortunately those problems across all lines will take multiple draft and trade periods to fix and development time is needed so there is no quick fix.
Our fitness levels will also need to improve us the next few years as we'll get exposed against teams like the Crows on the spread.
We have the bones of a young team to build around and their performances will still be up and down as development time is put into them over the next few years but we can see a level of improvement in both individuals and the collective even if it is not resulting in wins just yet.

Agree........Offer him a 1 year contract with him knowing that he is no longer our 1st ruck and may be playing more games in the vfl similar to Cunners. Leave the decision up to him..

 

[DuckYeah]

The only reliable ways we have cleared the ball out of defensive 50 have been through Sheezel, Ziebell, Logue and Bergman.

Bergman wasn’t playing and Ziebell has let himself down a tad over the last couple of weeks. It felt like Logue was covering the man/space of McKay/McDonald and Corr the whole game.

We desperately need some more class on the HB line over the summer. A high draft pick/recruit who can come in with speed, smarts and skills.

We also need a functioning midfield to assist the defence. We were absolutely towelled up yesterday in the middle. Like, we haven’t played so poorly and had so many players off the boil in there all year.

Somehow, we only lose by 21.

Lol Ziebs was running at 93% d/e

 

[Shagga is all Class]

Consistent honourable losses beats the hell out of consistent lacklustre floggings.

Well, the past 6 weeks has shown, we have a much better ability to defend, and we have actually provided a bit of an arm wrestle for 2, 3 or 4 quarters.

Yes, the inside 50 count was completely lopsided against the Dogs but some of our recent games have been pretty even.

I get the feeling, that at some point, our midfield will click and we will start running downhill, instead of labouring up it.