Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

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[IlovethePies]

Not a single person here has ever claimed there is not an element of Neo-Nazism in Ukraine. But it's insignificantly diluted in reality, much like it is here in Australia.

How do you know?

 

[Baldur]

Yeah, Russia is basically a combo of the worst and most right wing aspects of Australia and the US but loved by cooked gen xers who still identify as lefties for whatever reason.

I think its projected self-hatred, they hate themselves, most likely for good reason. But rather than admitting this they project this hate onto the societies they live in. The societies opposed to the societies they live in then become objects of uncritical love.

 

[jatz14]

Very good post Ferball.

You are absolutely right in pointing out the horrible hypocricy that reigns on this thread with all those here who (rightly) condemn Putin as a criminal dictator, but fail to notice that Biden and NATO support Israel's genocide in the Middle East.

Yet somehow they want us to believe that Zelensky, Biden and US/NATO are the 'good guys'

And you are absolutely correct in your description of Ukraine: the Zelensky regime is not a democracy, but is a police state which has cancelled elections, banned all left wing political opposition parties, and imprisons anyone who opposes the war.

As your comments also illustrate, it is based on xenophobia (primarily anti Russian), but also anti-Roma.

Another bonkers take from the usual.

First, these are unrelated events, either would have occurred regardless of the other.
Second, reactions to events in the middle east have no bearing on events in Ukraine. Your attempt to link the 2 is merely an admission you have no valid arguments.
Third, all people are immoral to some degree, this doesn't invalidate any good they do. I judge American participation in Ukraine by events in Ukraine, how good or evil they are elsewhere is entirely irrelevant.
Even if Zelensky is a criminal, this neither invalidates his efforts to defend Ukraine, nor justifies the invasion. Putin is clearly a criminal, yet you never bring that up to criticise Russia, nor justify actions against Russia.
I do not mention Israel in this thread, so you assume, in that vacuous info free way you have, what I and others must think. The Israel government, like the Russian government, is a war criminal, and like the Russian government, should be stopped. That America is helping stop Russia is good, that it's doing little if anything to stop Israel is bad. It, and we, should do more, in both case.

I do not talk about it here, because this is the thread discussing Russian crimes, and the international attempt to curtail them.

What you are doing, blatantly, pathetically, uselessly, is taking 2 different events, and trying to draw some equivalence between them, in order to use 1 event to make arguments in the other event, because you cannot mount a coherent argument otherwise.


You have tried to paint Ukraine and the US as evil in fighting of Russian aggression, and that this evil justifies supporting a war of aggression, and it hasn't worked.

So now you switch to Israel. It's ok to oppose Ukraine defending itself because Israel is bad. Ukraine shouldn't get military help, because Israel is. Zelenski is bad, because Putin said he is, or more accurately, Zelenski is bad because American mouthpieces paid by Putin, said he is, so Russia should win the war.

It's pathetic.

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[IlovethePies]

Second, reactions to events in the middle east have no bearing on events in Ukraine. Your attempt to link the 2 is merely an admission you have no valid arguments.

And this is where you are utterly wrong. Events in the Middle East are totally interconnected with the events in Ukraine. They are part of the same war, in which US imperialism is tobogganing to disaster as it tries to redivide the world in its own interests.

Russia has a presence in both Syria and Iran. The US is attempting to subordinate the Middle East to its control, via its proxy Israel.

Russia is an impediment. Hence, war against Iran is completely related to breaking Russia's hold in the Middle East.

...and the dismemberment of Russia is a fundamental goal of US/NATO imperialism. So anything that weakens Russia is gold coin for US imperialism.

The war in Ukraine is not really going to plan for US/NATO. The Ukrainian army is being bled white, and the front is moving in favour of Russia.

So the US is now hell bent on opening up a new front, by giving Israel the green light to launch an attack on Iran.

You need to stop thinking of the world as a set of unrelated events, confined to limited geographical spaces.

Such thinking belongs to a different period of history.

Today, the world is totally interconnected economically, socially and politically. Every major event, anywhere in the world, has repercussions and consequences across the globe.

Events in Ukraine (identified by key US imperialist strategists as a pivot point in Eurasia) are totally bound up with events in the Middle East (a key geostrategic region due to its resources, and geographical proximity to both Russia and Europe.

If you reject this, then you have no hope of cognising anything in contemporary reality.

 

[IlovethePies]

Even if Zelensky is a criminal, this neither invalidates his efforts to defend Ukraine, nor justifies the invasion. Putin is clearly a criminal, yet you never bring that up to criticise Russia, nor justify actions against Russia.
I do not mention Israel in this thread, so you assume, in that vacuous info free way you have, what I and others must think. The Israel government, like the Russian government, is a war criminal, and like the Russian government, should be stopped. That America is helping stop Russia is good, that it's doing little if anything to stop Israel is bad. It, and we, should do more, in both case.



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I don't assume anything about what you think in relation to Israel. I mention Israel solely to point out that the US and NATO - who support Netanyahu - simultaneously support Zelensky.

So on the one hand, as you yourself have just admitted, the US government is supporting the war criminals in Tel Aviv. Yet you want us to think that the US has noble intentions in supporting Zelensky?

You said: "Even if Zelensky is a criminal, this neither invalidates his efforts to defend Ukraine, nor justifies the invasion"

Certainly, Zelensky's criminality does not justify Putin's invasion, because as I have said in a previous post, Putin is just as much a criminal as Zelensky.

However, how can you glibly say that even if Zelensky is a criminal, it is OK to support his efforts to "defend Ukraine" If he is a criminal, then perhaps it is necessary to analyse what this war is about, rather than just give him your uncritical support?