Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[IlovethePies]

Glad you agree that we should just nuke russia into glass.

Nothing I have said here supports such a barbaric claim.
But you obviously hold this belief, indicating how
a) inhumane you are
b) how ignorant you are

 

[Visions]

It is Ukraine who is rollling tanks into Russia at the moment...German ones... the first time since WW2

But that whole region is historically Ukrainian land….

Since you’re the one going on about the brotherly love between the Russians and Ukrainians you shouldn’t have an issue that they are integrating themselves there at the moment.

 

[Visions]

It's funny ... whenever this is brought up .... absolute crickets ...

Because the morons don’t have an answer to this, and the current one will gloss over it as well.

 

[Chief]

You tell me why the sight of Panzers once again rollng into Russia shouldn't "sound alarm bells"?

You're equating the Ukrainian seizure of land with Nazi Germany.

This is what the Russians have been promoting for decades - the Russians must stop Nazis, and anyone who is not Russian is a Nazi.

You're playing in to that propaganda.

Why?

 

[Zidane98]

Yes, it was a reference to the fact that imperialist tanks are now rolling into Russian territory, and this is the first time since Nazi tanks did so.

What do you mean by "Nazi reference" ?

My reference is to the historical record.

I am attempting to alert those who can be alerted that we are witnessing events resembling those that took place 83 years ago, and which led to the annihilation of 28 million Soviet citizens.

You tell me why the sight of Panzers once again rollng into Russia shouldn't "sound alarm bells"?

You have it wrong comrade.


Ukrainian soldiers, supplied by the US are fighting against Nazis in Kursk. I wish Ukraine well in its war against invading fascists.


Just like in WW2.

 

[Zidane98]

Because the morons don’t have an answer to this, and the current one will gloss over it as well.

Further to this, Putin has actively been moving missile systems from Kaliningrad (surrounded by NATO states) and norther Russian bordering Finland because of the large attrition rate of these systems in Ukranian territory.

Putin has actually left the Finland / Russia NATO border virtually unguarded with nothing more than border security.


If NATO threatening Russia was a genuine issue than these areas would absolutely be the focus of Russian military defense.

 

[Chief]

Putin has actually left the Finland / Russia NATO border virtually unguarded with nothing more than border security.

And trying to send refugees over the border to keep everyone occupied.

 

[Chief]

In 2014, in the Maidan coup, fascist political tendencies (funded and supported by the CIA and Germany) overthrew an elected government.
This was actually the date when the war between Russia and Ukraine began.

Wait why does Russia get a say in who runs Ukraine?

 

[Zidane98]

Wait why does Russia get a say in who runs Ukraine?

One of their first demands upon full scale invasion by Russia was they wanted to choose who Ukraine's PM was or else.

Unsurprisingly Ukraine knocked that ridiculous demand back immediately.

Vatniks complain all the time about interference in Ukraine yet for some unknown reason they have no complaints about this or Yanukovych. I wonder why.

 

[Zidane98]

List is a little out of date now, some links might have changed or been replaced.

Independent Russian News Source Channels (on the RF hate list):
Meduza/mediazone - [Telegram] [website] [Facebook]
BBC Russia - [Telegram] [Website]
Novaya Gazeta - [Telegram] [website] [Facebook] [Youtube]
Astra - [Telegram]
Kommersant - [website]
The Insider - [website]
TV Rain/Dozhd - they had Youtube but I unsubbed because no subtitles
Radio Ekho - [Youtube]

Russian News Source Channels (careful with what they say):
Sibirmedia - [Telegram]
Tayga.info - [Telegram] [website]

Ukrainian repost channels (very pro-Ukraine):
Ukraine In Shock - [Telegram]
Trukha Ukraina - [Telegram]
No War In Ukraine - [Telegram]

Local Ukrainian regional channels:
Kherson Huiviy - [Telegram]
Svatove City - [Telegram]
Severodonetsk News - [Telegram]
Luhansk OBA - [Telegram]
Servant Of The People - [Telegram]

Youtubers:
Denis Davydov - [Telegram] [Youtube]
Operator Starsky - [Youtube]
Butusov Plus - [Youtube]
Terra Ops UA - [Youtube]

Maps of Frontline Movements:
DeepState UA - [Telegram] (pro-Ukraine but keen on accuracy)

Russian repost channels:
Baza - [Telegram]
The Bugle - []Telegram]

Additional Russian channels of interest:
SOTA Project - [Telegram]
DOTA (Russian Uni Community) - [Telegram]

Political incarcerations in Russia:
OVD-Info - [Telegram] [website]
Freedom For Sasha Skochilenko - [Telegram] (covers other political prisoners from the war as well)

#MobbsDelivers

 

[Aussie in exile]

You forgot the illegal invasion bit.
Best little man builds more cemeteries then and Big man should build a few as well,will drag on for a bit.

Putin suffers from little man syndrome, and he's not worried how many Russians die this is all about his ego.
short people like Putin hav ego's biggers than their height and in Putins case being a midget that wouldn't be hard

 

[GhostofJimJess]

You're equating the Ukrainian seizure of land with Nazi Germany.

This is what the Russians have been promoting for decades - the Russians must stop Nazis, and anyone who is not Russian is a Nazi.

You're playing in to that propaganda.

Why?

They're a Russian-sympathising Collingwood supporter. Please tell me they're a big Nickelback fan too.

 

[IlovethePies]

It's funny ... whenever this is brought up .... absolute crickets ...

Ukraine is of critical geostrategic importance, in that its territorial position represents a direct pathway into the heart of Russia. Whoever occupies Ukraine/controls its government holds a dagger to the heart of Russia's national security. Moreover control of the Black Sea is a critical goal in the strategy of US imperialism, which aims ultimately to carve up Russia into powerless ethnic mini states easy for US corporations to dominate and plunder. Does anyone really think that Putin is unaware of these plans?


As NATO kept creeping towards Russia progressively since the 1990's, Putin has made many public statements that Russia would never accept the incorporation of Ukraine into NATO.

It was hardly a surprise to NATO. In fact, this was all along the purpose of the Maidan coup way back in 2014. US and German imperialism succeeded in installing a pro-NATO regime at that time which would continually threaten the Putin regime by striving to join NATO. Civil war in Ukraine broke out as well when the Ukrainian military attempted to repress the rebellion of Russian speakers in the Donbass who were terrirfied by the prospect of living under an extreme right wing, nationalist, Russophobic Ukrainian regime.

Russia responded by in order to defend its own borders against hostile Ukraine military action on its doorstep by rendering assistance to the Donbass Russian population who were under savage Ukrainian bombardment.

One needs only to imagine what would happen if an extreme anti US government came to power in Mexico and started receiving arms from Russia, expanding its military, bombarding southern sections of the US,
and threatening to join the Russia-China axis. I think the vast majority on this board would warmly support a US invasion of Mexico under these circumstances.

After 2014, the US, Germany and Britain poured military equipment and military trainers into Ukraine precisely with the aim to prepare for a proxy war against Russia, which they fully intended to provoke.

When he was elected, Zelensky maintained this pro US imperialism and pro NATO policy.

The invasion by Putin of Ukraine was an utterly reactionary and barbaric act, which i condemn. But what is crucial to note about it, is the fact that this invasion was deliberately provoked by the Ukrainian government acting as a proxy for US and NATO imperialism. Putin fell into their trap.

He believed, falsely, that if he invaded, the NATO powers and the Ukrainian government would quickly fold and come to the negotiating table. Putin made clear that his regime sought a deal, which included a guarantee that Ukraine would not join NATO.

Now he has been trapped in an endless war of attrition. At any time, this war could spiral into a nuclear war, as NATO openly discusses its plans to reinforce Ukraine's depleted army with its own troops. Ukraine is running out of manpower, and to keep the war going NATO will have no choice but to send its own forces in. This threatens nuclear armageddon.

Putin's invasion has allowed US propaganda to portray him as the evil monster because he was the one who struck first. The US propaganda machine has been remarkably successful in this endeavour. But, the truth always in the end catches up with US propaganda, and it will again.

The truth is that every government involved in this conflict: the Putin regime, the Zelensky regime, the US government and governments of its NATO allies - along with the Australian government, which has supplied billions of aid to the Zelensky regime -are all criminal, and are all responsible for the horrific catastrophe that has befallen the Ukrainian people.

 

[wannabejack]

.... along with the Australian government, which has supplied billions of aid to the Zelensky regime -are all criminal, and are all responsible for the horrific catastrophe that has befallen the Ukrainian people.

Not quite billions.
Australia is unwavering in our support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity and is providing more than $1 billion in total assistance, including $880 million in military support.
The new contribution includes $20 million to the Ukraine Energy Support Fund, which will allow funds to be used efficiently and effectively to provide heat and electricity for Ukrainians.

https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/media-release/energy-and-humanitarian-assistance-ukraine

 

[IlovethePies]

Not quite billions.
Australia is unwavering in our support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity and is providing more than $1 billion in total assistance, including $880 million in military support.
The new contribution includes $20 million to the Ukraine Energy Support Fund, which will allow funds to be used efficiently and effectively to provide heat and electricity for Ukrainians.

https://www.foreignminister.gov.au/minister/penny-wong/media-release/energy-and-humanitarian-assistance-ukraine

Sorry, stand corrected. I thought it was over $ 1 billion. Anyway, it does equal $1 billion, which is financial funding for a criminal regime, thereby making the Albanese government a criminal actor in the Ukraine war as well.

The criminality of the Albanese government is likewise expressed in its support for the Zionist genocide in Gaza, and its attempts to demonise anti-genocide protestors as "anti-Semitic"

If nothing else, the Albanese government (and the Liberals/Greens, who all agree on the fundamental issues) are consistent in their criminality.

 

[IlovethePies]

It's not just the Albanese government who are "criminal actor"s.

...the Coalition has consistently supported further assistance, while urging the Albanese Government to maintain a leading approach.

Extra help for Ukraine welcome, but leaves many questions unanswered

The Coalition strongly welcomes additional support for Ukraine in their fight against Russia’s illegal and immoral invasion.Ukraine’s fight is not just for their nation, but also in defence of democracy, sovereignty and a rules-based order that Australia also relies upon.Since establishing...

www.liberal.org.au

Read my post above. I have covered this.

 

[wannabejack]

Read my post above. I have covered this.

You must have updated your post?
I've deleted mine.

 

[IlovethePies]

You must have updated your post?
I've deleted mine.

can't remember if i did...maybe. But you nailed it. Every politician in Parliament has blood on his/her hands.

 

[wannabejack]

can't remember if i did...maybe. But you nailed it. Every politician in Parliament has blood on his/her hands.

My bad. I wasn’t agreeing with you.
I was trying to make the point that is wasn’t just one political group deciding to help Ukraine.

 

[IlovethePies]

My bad. I wasn’t agreeing with you.
I was trying to make the point that is wasn’t just one political group deciding to help Ukraine.

That's funny. Even though you don't agree with me, you still are making a correct point that I agree with.
Such is the complexity of reality.

 

[IlovethePies]

They're a Russian-sympathising Collingwood supporter. Please tell me they're a big Nickelback fan too.

I'm not, but I bet that you like Creed.

 

[IlovethePies]

You have it wrong comrade.


Ukrainian soldiers, supplied by the US are fighting against Nazis in Kursk. I wish Ukraine well in its war against invading fascists.


Just like in WW2.

Ummm...WW2 was the opposite. Fascists invaded Ukraine, heading east, at a rapid pace.

The Russian army started heading west, but now simply holds the line in a stalemate.

Nothing like WW2 in terms of troop movements and engagements.

The Russian army is composed of young conscripts, dragooned from impoverished families in far flung regions of the Russian federation.

The Ukrainian army likewise consists of young working class men and women (and older ones), often kidnapped off the streets of Ukrainian cities and forcibly conscripted.

However, the Ukrainian army also includes the Azov Battalion and other openly anti-Semitic, fascist military units, who wear swastikas on their uniforms. This is publicly documented in a myriad of documents and images.

This is what I wish.

That the Ukrainian and Russian soldiers refuse to kill each other. Join forces, and overthrow the criminal governments (Putin's and Zelensky's) who are sending them to slaughter each other for the profit interests of their respective capitalist elites.

 

[IlovethePies]

You're equating the Ukrainian seizure of land with Nazi Germany.

This is what the Russians have been promoting for decades - the Russians must stop Nazis, and anyone who is not Russian is a Nazi.

You're playing in to that propaganda.

Why?

Yes, the Putin regime is using "deNazification" as a cynical propaganda tool.

As I have pointed out in previous posts, the Putin regime is equally criminal as that of Zelensky

However, regardless of Putin's propaganda, it is objective fact that the Zelensky regime draws significant support from a fascist social base.

Many generals in the Ukrainain army are fascists.

The Azov Battalion, which has a very high profile in the Ukrainian military, is an openly anti-Semitic, fascist military force which wears Nazi regalia on its uniform.

The Zelensky regime has presided over the renaming of avenues and monuments in Ukraine to honour the memory of the fascist Stepan Bandera, who was a collaborator with the Nazis in the Holocaust.

The point is that lethal weaponry, German panzers, are now in the hands of these Ukrainian neo=fascists, who share the same vision as Hitler.

And it is the US and NATO who are deliberately arming and training these forces.

So the fundamental resemblance to WW2 in this conflict is that once again, Nazis are driving Panzers into Russia. This time, however, Russia is armed with nuclear weapons.

So the outcome will be the end of civilisation unless this war is stopped.

 

[IlovethePies]

Wait why does Russia get a say in who runs Ukraine?

Huh?
It was the US and Germany who installed the pro NATO government after fascists (funded by the CIA) spearheaded a coup.
Since 2014, it has been the US and its NATO allies calling the shots about who runs Ukraine.

 

[jatz14]

It is Ukraine who is rollling tanks into Russia at the moment...German ones... the first time since WW2

They are in a war. They are invading the nation they are at war with. Its what one does, when one is at war. Rule 1 for not being invaded by your neighbours is, dont start wars with them. So, Russia's path to not being invaded seems clear. Not sure what Ukraine's was, other than just ceding sovereignty to Russia?