Autopsy Big Big Loss - Giants over Freo by 9 points in Sydney

[Dockeroo]

1. I don't think Bolton is a small forward. I think he is plays his best footy higher up the ground, and through the midfield.
2. If he was not contracted, I would be on board, but he is and I don't think we should pay the overs Richmond will ask for.
3. I have concerns with Bolton's accuracy when kicking for goal.
4. I have a big concern we will do something stupid like not sign Sturt, trade in Bolton and end up with a worse team but lose 2 or 3 first round picks in the process. This would be an old school freo decision.

If we could trade Bolton for pick 7, I would do it but I don't want to give up more.
and we only sign Bolton if does not impact our ability to sign Sturt and Brayshaw

We have no true matchwinners. We have plenty of good honest players and even some elite honest players like Caleb and AB who will rack up the touches and the tackles and win plenty All Australians.

We have nice leading tall forwards that mark and kick pretty straight. Treacy, Sturt, amiss.

But I’m talking about guys like Greene, Rankine, Bolton, Papley, Daniels yesterday. We dont have that guy. We have no magician in the forward 50. There is no danger guy that buzzes around the stoppage and pulls a goal from nothing though a piece of class or brilliance.
You can’t win the flag without that player. The likes of Switta, Banfield, Frederick - they are just not good enough. How much more evidence do we need?

Look at Daniels yesterday. Everytime he got the ball there was consternation. Toby Greene - pulled out a miracle goal from nothing just before HT to keep them in it.

What do you want to do with these picks? Take some 18 year old kids and start Round 1 next year with Banfield still in the 22?
By the time they grow up Alex Pearce and Luke Ryan will be on the way down and veterans.
We need to go all in while Serong and AB are at their peak and that’s right now.

 

[dont bowl there]

1. I don't think Bolton is a small forward. I think he is plays his best footy higher up the ground, and through the midfield.
2. If he was not contracted, I would be on board, but he is and I don't think we should pay the overs Richmond will ask for.
3. I have concerns with Bolton's accuracy when kicking for goal.
4. I have a big concern we will do something stupid like not sign Sturt, trade in Bolton and end up with a worse team but lose 2 or 3 first round picks in the process. This would be an old school freo decision.

If we could trade Bolton for pick 7, I would do it but I don't want to give up more.
and we only sign Bolton if does not impact our ability to sign Sturt and Brayshaw

1: Great! We could absolutely use another goal kicking midfielder who can also impact forward. Sounds even better than just getting a small forward in.
2: Genuine concern to pay overs if we weren't in this unique position of being a young contending squad with three first round picks this year. We can afford to pay slight overs this year if it means brining in a-class quality. We are all here to win flags not win trades.
3: This should not be a concern at all given our current options can't even score. Switta has 37.24 over the last three years. Bolton has 104.94 he has like 60% more GOALS than Switta has scoring shots. Don't worry about his apparent inaccuracy, look at the positive side of things that he is able to be in position to be taking that many shots.
4: This is an excuse that you have made up to try and help justify not making a trade. There is no reason to think Sturt won't be offered a contract on the chance we do trade for Bolton.

I get concerns due to past mistakes but the last thing this current Fremantle team needs IMO is to be adding even more youth to the team. We are young and good enough to be competing right now, adding in more draft picks just pushes the time line out further.

I do respect your opinion on the matter and understand the fear of Fremantle making trades but we need to be bold and not worry about the past.

 

[Lach72]

At the time I was annoyed but just assumed we had nothing forward of the ball, but it’s clear as day.

What a complete stuff up.

Delist

 

[go_the_dockers]

We have no true matchwinners. We have plenty of good honest players and even some elite honest players like Caleb and AB who will rack up the touches and the tackles and win plenty All Australians.

We have nice leading tall forwards that mark and kick pretty straight. Treacy, Sturt, amiss.

But I’m talking about guys like Greene, Rankine, Bolton, Papley, Daniels yesterday. We dont have that guy. We have no magician in the forward 50. There is no danger guy that buzzes around the stoppage and pulls a goal from nothing though a piece of class or brilliance.
You can’t win the flag without that player. The likes of Switta, Banfield, Frederick - they are just not good enough. How much more evidence do we need?

Look at Daniels yesterday. Everytime he got the ball there was consternation. Toby Greene - pulled out a miracle goal from nothing just before HT to keep them in it.

What do you want to do with these picks? Take some 18 year old kids and start Round 1 next year with Banfield still in the 22?
By the time they grow up Alex Pearce and Luke Ryan will be on the way down and veterans.
We need to go all in while Serong and AB are at their peak and that’s right now.

How many picks would you give up for Bolton?

What is your limit?

 

[Tundrawolf]

**** me dead

He ****ed us over so many times yesterday, I don't think a player has stuffed up so much.

 

[s_wd6]

He ****ed us over so many times yesterday, I don't think a player has stuffed up so much.

It’s a special kind of bad when your teammate lets his direct opponent have 10 shots on goal and you’re still the worst player on the ground.

So many crucial 12 point plays he was involved in.

 

[Dockeroo]

How many picks would you give up for Bolton?

What is your limit?

Completely separate argument.
Probably pick 10 and pick 17 with pick 30 coming back. Something along those lines.

What’s not in question is the fact that we CANNOT win the flag next year with this forward line. The players we have in the position Bolton plays are simply not good enough.

No 18 year old draftee will contribute like Bolton should over the next 4 years. I’m interested in winning flags not trades.

If we take the picks to the draft Banfield emmett and Switta will be our small forwards in R1 next year, and I can assure you right now there will be no premiership if all those players are in the starting 22.

 

[StingBitten]

Team has wasted some talent at Peel and reserves. A wasted year when a few could have played several AFL games.
Davies showed enough to even replace an injury interrupted Cox.
Simpson deserved more than a sub game.
Reidy proved a point. Erasmus deserved a chance as that forward/mid.
Brody is out the door for whatever reason?
Knobel is too good for reserves footy and will be better than Jackson in the forward
ruck role.
All of these guys besides Brody will be AFL players, can somebody let the club know?

The crazy thing is Sturt came in during a patch of Freo form, for example he was the lowest contributor against the Demons in Alice Springs when we belted them by 100.

If we lost that, based on his isolated performance he would've been dropped back to the Magoo's. But no, he kicks 3 goals against the Dogs the next week in a brutal loss, he then kicks 2 against the Suns and 3 against the Swans. THEN, he has a couple of quiet games but because he's put in a body of work they persevere with him... And then the next 5 games he kicks 9 goals, PLUS he starts laying tackles, he increases his awareness and synergy with the team - to now being a best-22 player.

If we lost against the Demons at Alice Springs, I bet you to put your hand on heart and suggest he was going to play again the following week - the result being he's not in the team for many more weeks, has many more stop-starts and career at Freo is done at seasons end.

Footy is linear progression, and sometimes comparisons can't be made between WAFL form and AFL form. For Christ's sake, we had Connor Blakely, Jason Ballard and Viv Michie racking up 35+ each week - what happened to them? Sometimes players with great potential need a body of work at AFL level before great things start happening. Brayshaw didn't spend 3-seconds at Peel when he joined Freo and look at him, there's others like that who weren't even high draft picks.

This is how I feel about players like Brodie, Erasmus, Reidy and maybe even a Cooper Simpson. You need to give them 4-5 weeks to work on their game, build their strengths and address their weaknesses - sometimes with players like Emmett it just doesn't click straight away (and sometimes never does).

None of us are Freo coaches of course but you can't tell me Sturt wouldn't have had a completely different trajectory of one result went different.

 

[muckypup]

I dont want to vent I just want to cry.

He wasn't huge, that's true, but what was, was the impact on structure. Assuming all fit we can now:

1) Replace Darcy with Voss - Jacko 1st ruck / Treacy 2nd (best on paper but risks Treacy injury)

2) Replace Darcy with Reidy, keep forward line the same (less output but keeps forwards the same, less risk to Treacy, allows Jacko to ruck well for 20% of the game).

If we're playing a brute like Briggs/Nankervis, it's option 2, all day every day. The return on structure was huge. We could have, and should have, won yesterday and would have smashed Essendon & Geelong playing like that. We're also missing the fact that Reidy will likely continue to improve.

I know it's disappointing we lost and the season is looking ****ed, but that was an enormous positive from yesterday. The other one was the potential return of NOD (not sold on this yet), the continued growth of Johnson, and the further proof that rotating our mids through the fwd line is highly effective (especially Serong).

So I'm down, but it's really hard not to be excited about watching this team for the next 5/6 years, especially if you're adding Bolton or Warner to it.


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Get on the NOD train mate. Express to September action.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Completely separate argument.
Probably pick 10 and pick 17 with pick 30 coming back. Something along those lines.

What’s not in question is the fact that we CANNOT win the flag next year with this forward line. The players we have in the position Bolton plays are simply not good enough.

No 18 year old draftee will contribute like Bolton should over the next 4 years. I’m interested in winning flags not trades.

If we take the picks to the draft Banfield emmett and Switta will be our small forwards in R1 next year, and I can assure you right now there will be no premiership if all those players are in the starting 22.

How much you give up for players, both salary and picks is a big part of the decision making.

I can see Richmond asking for a lot more than that, and which is my biggest concern.

I think Berry could contribute straight away next year. We should chase Richards, Winder and player like this.

Trade in Baker.

I believe if we did that, we would be in a better spot, than bringing in Bolton for what I expect will be pick 10 and 17 straight up.

As I said before, if it was just Pick 10 then I would do it. I just think the cost will be too high.

 

[Lach72]

Completely separate argument.
Probably pick 10 and pick 17 with pick 30 coming back. Something along those lines.

What’s not in question is the fact that we CANNOT win the flag next year with this forward line. The players we have in the position Bolton plays are simply not good enough.

No 18 year old draftee will contribute like Bolton should over the next 4 years. I’m interested in winning flags not trades.

If we take the picks to the draft Banfield emmett and Switta will be our small forwards in R1 next year, and I can assure you right now there will be no premiership if all those players are in the starting 22.

Agree fully.

10, 17 and 25 for Bolton and Baker.

Then take the best player we can with the other draft pick.

I think Port will crash out in straight sets, so if that happens I would even do our best two picks and 25 for Bolton and Baker.


They mean two less dumb arses in the team

 

[Lach72]

How much you give up for players, both salary and picks is a big part of the decision making.

I can see Richmond asking for a lot more than that, and which is my biggest concern.

I think Berry could contribute straight away next year. We should chase Richards, Winder and player like this.

Trade in Baker.

I believe if we did that, we would be in a better spot, than bringing in Bolton for what I expect will be pick 10 and 17 straight up.

As I said before, if it was just Pick 10 then I would do it. I just think the cost will be too high.

This is bemusing. We should chase b and c won’t be better than what we have.
Weird.

Bolton and Baker. Get it done

 

[Lach72]

We would not in any way, be in a better spot keeping draft picks over Bolton, given where we are now.

Not a ****ing chance

 

[trentjac]

Fyfe was poor defensively but Banfield was literally a positive to the Giants just about every time he touched it

Fyfe has a whopping total of 4 tackles over the past 4 games. For a full time mid that is not acceptable. Brodie can easily match his output

 

[ilikepotatoes]

Fyfe has a whopping total of 4 tackles over the past 4 games. For a full time mid that is not acceptable. Brodie can easily match his output

Spot on.

He has to be the easiest player to side step in the league as well.

 

[Joao]

We would not in any way, be in a better spot keeping draft picks over Bolton, given where we are now.

Not a ****ing chance

100%

We'd have to pull a Daicos, Sheezel or Reid out of the hat for that and even then, Bolton is still probably better in 2025 anyway.

 

[Dockeroo]

How much you give up for players, both salary and picks is a big part of the decision making.

I can see Richmond asking for a lot more than that, and which is my biggest concern.

I think Berry could contribute straight away next year. We should chase Richards, Winder and player like this.

Trade in Baker.

I believe if we did that, we would be in a better spot, than bringing in Bolton for what I expect will be pick 10 and 17 straight up.

As I said before, if it was just Pick 10 then I would do it. I just think the cost will be too high.

Joe Berry is a complete unknown. There is a high chance he doesn’t play an AFL game next year. He’s still a child!
GWS drafted Phoenix Gothard at pick 12 last year and he’s not played a game as a small forward yet at AFL level.

I get your concern about the price but at the end of the day we need elite talent in the forward half.
Bolton at his best is an absolute gun. He’s pretty young too. We just have to do it if the chance arises. Do you think the big clubs like Collingwood or Geelong would refuse the trade to get Bolton in if they hypothetically had our list profile and the chance arose? You must be joking.

Agree on baker too. If we can get him in - just do it. Top class player and decision maker and tough as nails.

 

[trentjac]

Look on the bright side, Banfield will not be best 23 next year.

He isn’t now and still gets picked

 

[Yeti]

Would love one of the AFL shows to pull apart exactly how Hogan was able to get as free as he was.

Was there a lot of blocking?

Was he doing a lot of dummy leads and doubling back and forth?

Was Cox as bad as we all think?

I'd love to see some down the ground vision because that was a bloody dominant game from a KPF.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

God forbid a player greets their mate. That cuddle was literally the least of our problems.

Players shake hands with their oppo before literally every single game

Years ago at Marvel I saw a junior game with potential draft picks playing.
Before the bounce, Hayden m
McLean ran down to full forward & his opponent offered his hand out for a shake.
McLean stiff armed him away.
I loved it, almost as much as his crashing of packs that day.
Let's get unsociable until after final sirens
And especially towards that snowflake jesse bogan

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[go_the_dockers]

Would love one of the AFL shows to pull apart exactly how Hogan was able to get as free as he was.

Was there a lot of blocking?

Was he doing a lot of dummy leads and doubling back and forth?

Was Cox as bad as we all think?

I'd love to see some down the ground vision because that was a bloody dominant game from a KPF.

He is in form. Took a few good pack marks.

Once he got out the back, because Cox went to spoil the ball and was slow to get up.

Other times, he just go clear and the ball was kicked to him perfectly.

I feel for Amiss, our delivery is shocking. We badly need 2 or 3 good people to kick to our forwards.

 

[malpaso]

He isn’t now and still gets picked

Because he's just about the only utility on our list, Baker fixes that.

 

[malpaso]

He is in form. Took a few good pack marks.

Once he got out the back, because Cox went to spoil the ball and was slow to get up.

Other times, he just go clear and the ball was kicked to him perfectly.

I feel for Amiss, our delivery is shocking. We badly need 2 or 3 good people to kick to our forwards.

And the inability by Draper to realise that Cox is out of the contest, I watched him just stand there and watch the ball movement instead of looking around for a man and both times resulted in a goal.

 

[blue shark]

We would not in any way, be in a better spot keeping draft picks over Bolton, given where we are now.

Not a ****ing chance

Brody played 20 odd games in 2022 and 5 in 2023. None in 24.
Same time frame Erasmus has played 23 games. Many as the sub.
Sturt has had injuries but is only now looking like a win.
Reidy has been here for 2 years for 1 AFL game.
Considering the best talent is from Victoria, and going by some players history
only way we fix this mess is with trades.
Players need 50 AFL games to find their feet, so 2027 and a mini rebuild
start booking the flights

 

[DocT]

Would love one of the AFL shows to pull apart exactly how Hogan was able to get as free as he was.

Was there a lot of blocking?

Was he doing a lot of dummy leads and doubling back and forth?

Was Cox as bad as we all think?

I'd love to see some down the ground vision because that was a bloody dominant game from a KPF.

Cox isn't fully fit. I think it might be his left hammy. Burst speed not there. Restricting total distance. Impacting his confidence. With Pearce out we were between a rock and a hard one.