Bluemour Discussion Thread XIII - Facts Not Welcome

[Mondyboy]

* fans lapping it up. TBF so would we.


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[SurreyBlue]

Signed up as I needed to rant.

The plan was to go to the draft for three years which we've done - as it turns out, this strategy results in us having Pick #1, which really should be the perfect platform to use to now attract senior quality players. Lo and behold, the allure of another high pick sees us deviate from the plan and hold firm to go to the draft, yet again.

Irrespective of how good Walsh may be down the track, how anyone can preference him over an established mid like Shiel shows how defeatist we've become. Posters have praised us all year for not deviating from the plan, yet are now celebrating that missing Shiel guarantees us pick #1.

What will change next year when we have a top 3 pick with another strong crop on offer. No one was talking about Walsh 12 months ago, and guarantee there will be another Walsh next year. There always is.

We're never going to be contenders without being aggressive and moving away from chasing the best new kid in the land. We're going to enter next year with 4 number 1 picks/9 top 5 picks/12 top 10 picks/18 first round picks. We would have got something back for pick 1 if we offered it for Shiel - who knows, still possibly the best kid 5 years from now...

McGovern and Setterfield will no doubt be great additions, neither improves our need for mids in the 23-27 year age bracket that the club stated was the plan. If they are all we get, see you back here in 12 months in exact the same position, and no more attractive for the next 'Shiel' on offer...

If we had won 6 or 8 games, as expected, we would have been in a better position to buy with a mid round pick.
Unfortunately, pick 1 for Shiel is overpaying. Shiel didn’t help us!!! With his refusal to commit, it made it impossible for us to deal outside of pick 1, else i think SOS would have made the deal.

 

[Bostonian]

Dunno why people are so flat. We're having a better off-season already compared to last season and it's not even finished yet.

 

[Juddalenko]

On the plus side - in four years, almost all of our mids will be in the 23-27 age bracket!

 

[Laurence]

Why did they allow him to keep playing much of the year? Was it him pushing himself or bad advice by others ? Very curious on this. It reminded me of Dylan Buckley always seemed to have ankle issues but often still playing weeks after looking like needed an extended lay off. I hope those staff members most in control of both situations no longer there.

Not sure, nothing surprises me with our medical team.

I’m confident he will be a beast next year. Country boy with huge upside..

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Scared to look when thr next bluemour no discussion goes bold

Wouldn't be holding your breath
Reckon they might keep their powder dry due to the pasting they've copped from some of the restless natives

 

[Blue__Balls]

Send Levi to GC quick smart, I reckon.

- Casboult and 43 for 29.
- 26 and McAdam for McGovern.
- Future second rounder for Setterfield.
- 28 and 29 for Sydney's 13.
- 76 for Lovell.

Draft 1 (Walsh), 13 (Collier-Dawkins), 68 (BSOS).
Goddard and Fasolo via free agency.

IN: McGovern, Setterfield, Lovell, Fasolo, Goddard, Walsh, Collier-Dawkins, BSOS.

Covers our 7 outs, plus Cas.

 

[Sheephead]

Afternoon - well I’m disappointed I must admit. Held a firm belief that Shiel would add some further legitimacy to our football club, and I really like him as a footballer. Cest la Vie.

Anyway, I want to acknowledge those that posted legit info in the Rumour thread, including but not exclusively - EP, MS3, B70, Reg, 10c, SBYM, W30, 90, Wic, and others (apologies if I missed you). Much appreciated.

My mail also was/is in good faith and I can share this. From the family, via my coach mate, we were our 2019 1st alone as our offer. GWS wanted to deal with us but I believe were playing us a bit as they always wanted 2 firsts for him OR the #1 and a 2nd. It wasn’t about money for Dylan though, it was playing finals. His family were very hopeful we would up our offer, but we didn’t relent, and Dylan would have considered us, but the * were always high for him followed by the Dawks. We were 3rd for most of the run and would have jumped up to 1 if we had put the #1 on the table. Bit of this, bit of that really. The lunch with Devon Smith and some of their leaders sealed it apparently.

Personally, I’d like the club to try and deal for Tyson and Hunt. We could use both. Revisit Scrimshaw and maybe enquirer about Finlayson. Dunstan is certainly not the worst option. Lovell I don’t mind the look of as a small FWD/MID. What I’m trying to say is I hope they continue to look to get better and I’ll be happy.

Now, with no Shiel coming, I’ll accede to Walsh (or Mason). Still not convinced but I’ll join the masses.

 

[HARKER]

Signed up as I needed to rant.
The plan was to go to the draft for three years which we've done - as it turns out, this strategy results in us having Pick #1, which really should be the perfect platform to use to now attract senior quality players. Lo and behold, the allure of another high pick sees us deviate from the plan and hold firm to go to the draft, yet again.
Irrespective of how good Walsh may be down the track, how anyone can preference him over an established mid like Shiel shows how defeatist we've become. Posters have praised us all year for not deviating from the plan, yet are now celebrating that missing Shiel guarantees us pick #1.

What will change next year when we have a top 3 pick with another strong crop on offer. No one was talking about Walsh 12 months ago, and guarantee there will be another Walsh next year. There always is.

We're never going to be contenders without being aggressive and moving away from chasing the best new kid in the land. We're going to enter next year with 4 number 1 picks/9 top 5 picks/12 top 10 picks/18 first round picks. We would have got something back for pick 1 if we offered it for Shiel - who knows, still possibly the best kid 5 years from now...

McGovern and Setterfield will no doubt be great additions, neither improves our need for mids in the 23-27 year age bracket that the club stated was the plan. If they are all we get, see you back here in 12 months in exact the same position, and no more attractive for the next 'Shiel' on offer...

Here's an idea. Why don't we wait until the Trade Week is over, before discussing our net position?
I can't speak for others but I'm certainly not defeatist here. I'm thinking practical.

We could have got Shiel if we wanted to. I stand to be corrected but I think Shiel got (hasn't got yet) to the third club of his 'choice'

Let's put everything on the scales at the end and not just two days in. Now that makes for a better idea to me.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Oh come on mate let’s look at those wins properly. WC had no Kennedy or Darling. Every time they played together this year they won. Cats are shit. Tigers were a game or 2 clear on top and probably should have lost that game to win a flag. Giants were in a bad form slump and they got them at the perfect time (much like we got the druggies in a form slump). They lost to hawks (a good, not great team) and pies twice this year. So please, whilst I rate the druggies as a good team, look a little closer at those games doesn’t show much. FFS the giants beat the swans as well!

As I said I wouldn't be picking them but to suggest they are any further back than Collingwood or Richmond were in 2017 is crazy talk.
Collingwood only won 3 more games than them this season and beat 1 other finalist for the HA season. Essendon beat 4 and ran 3 of the other 4 bloody close. It's a hell of a lot closer than people think.

 

[VainGlorious]

Focusing on the positives as Setters and Gov both WANT to play for us. And DS did not. We only want players who want to be here.

TBH it was going to be a hard sell winning 2 games and finishing bottom. He got flogged for the first couple years at GWS so completely understand the decision. If it was about money he'd be with the Saints. Giving up over $2mil to play at the * so he is not a mercenary by any means. As long as he plays shit against us and Crippa cleans him up I'm good

 

[KohPhi]

Signed up as I needed to rant.

The plan was to go to the draft for three years which we've done - as it turns out, this strategy results in us having Pick #1, which really should be the perfect platform to use to now attract senior quality players. Lo and behold, the allure of another high pick sees us deviate from the plan and hold firm to go to the draft, yet again.

Irrespective of how good Walsh may be down the track, how anyone can preference him over an established mid like Shiel shows how defeatist we've become. Posters have praised us all year for not deviating from the plan, yet are now celebrating that missing Shiel guarantees us pick #1.

What will change next year when we have a top 3 pick with another strong crop on offer. No one was talking about Walsh 12 months ago, and guarantee there will be another Walsh next year. There always is.

We're never going to be contenders without being aggressive and moving away from chasing the best new kid in the land. We're going to enter next year with 4 number 1 picks/9 top 5 picks/12 top 10 picks/18 first round picks. We would have got something back for pick 1 if we offered it for Shiel - who knows, still possibly the best kid 5 years from now...

McGovern and Setterfield will no doubt be great additions, neither improves our need for mids in the 23-27 year age bracket that the club stated was the plan. If they are all we get, see you back here in 12 months in exact the same position, and no more attractive for the next 'Shiel' on offer...

Whilst I don't agree with trading pick 1, you put forward a valid argument with reasoned points and no vitriol attached. Hope you stay around!

 

[HBF]

GWS were pushing Carlton as club of choice the whole time, we had a deal with Shiel that looked done. Once we had convinced Shiel GWS basically say they aren't doing the trade without pick #1, we were still confident that this was posturing and a deal would get a deal done. Not sure what Essendon offered GWS in the end, but it was more than we willing/capable of giving up.

SOS & co genuinely surprised this is how it worked out, but that's the name of the game. Well done to Essendon to get it over the line.

Thanks 10cp.
Guess we can go all out for Kelly next year.

 

[harrisendblue]

How about me

I posted yesterday morning that the Bombers were back in the hunt. I don’t think too many believed me. The key factor - I think - was GWS was pushing Shiel and Connors in their direction. That’s who they wanted to deal with once Shiel indicated he didn’t want to go to StKilda - they had the best “now” pick on the table. Hawthorn’s was too low and ours was 2019. I reckon from that point, Connors worked to convince Shiel that he could get him to Essendon with less fuss than either Carlton or Hawthorn. Essendon, for their part, had to up their $ offer which they did.

I reckon we could have become GWS “club of choice” - and perhaps, by extension, obtained Shiel, if we had put pick one on the table. I’m glad we didn’t and, in any case, he may have been reluctant to come to us given our ladder position

As for the quietness this morning, nobody knew anything. Shiel notified Carlton of his decision about 5 minutes before it was made public

Thanks for the update and more importantly all the info you've provided - its greatly appreciated.

You've been consistent that it has been touch and go through out which has helped me temper my expectation and thus ensured I haven't melted.

 

[Aphrodite]

Has been 5146 days since Essendon* won a final






Now I feel better.

 

[footyfan1978]

Very curious now what SOS had planned in case we missed Shiel. He would have already considered this scenario of missing out so interesting to see what A grader we done some work on going for just in case this happened. Jack Steven maybe ?

 

[fnm_just a man]

I want Whitfield.

Me too! ... Wouldn't say no to Luke Parker either (or Lachie Neale - surely we're enquiring hard about this? Prefer him to Shiel tbh. This year and next year first for Freo's this year and Neale? .. A lot going on for Dockers this year.)

More realistically, we could look at Mitch Duncan, Wingard, Crouch.

Or next level down, George Hewett, J Lloyd, L Duggan.

There is much to be gained by bringing in some B+ players for us. A/A+ not necessary (though wouldn't knock it back!).

It's a funny year this year. In my view, Geelong, Hawks, Sydney and Port should probably be looking to hit the draft hard for the next year or two, but none of them seem to be willing to (possibly Port). It would normally be these teams that are willing to give up players for the right price - like us and Lions over past few years. I reckon Geelong would if not for Dangerfield's presence. May still though if we could offer next year's first for Duncan and their second this year or something like that? I do think we should be adventurous with next year's first to score something to help in 2019.

 

[King Cripps]

Well this is a real bummer

 

[rog1995]

Signed up as I needed to rant.

The plan was to go to the draft for three years which we've done - as it turns out, this strategy results in us having Pick #1, which really should be the perfect platform to use to now attract senior quality players. Lo and behold, the allure of another high pick sees us deviate from the plan and hold firm to go to the draft, yet again.

Irrespective of how good Walsh may be down the track, how anyone can preference him over an established mid like Shiel shows how defeatist we've become. Posters have praised us all year for not deviating from the plan, yet are now celebrating that missing Shiel guarantees us pick #1.

What will change next year when we have a top 3 pick with another strong crop on offer. No one was talking about Walsh 12 months ago, and guarantee there will be another Walsh next year. There always is.

We're never going to be contenders without being aggressive and moving away from chasing the best new kid in the land. We're going to enter next year with 4 number 1 picks/9 top 5 picks/12 top 10 picks/18 first round picks. We would have got something back for pick 1 if we offered it for Shiel - who knows, still possibly the best kid 5 years from now...

McGovern and Setterfield will no doubt be great additions, neither improves our need for mids in the 23-27 year age bracket that the club stated was the plan. If they are all we get, see you back here in 12 months in exact the same position, and no more attractive for the next 'Shiel' on offer...

Because it's not just about being competitive. It's about creating a list that will have sustained success. If that means it takes a couple of extra years, so be it. Bigger picture..

 

[Navara79]

Throw the 1 mill at Ollie Wines, see if it sticks.

He just signed a long term deal. Would cost more than Sheil

 

[Aphrodite]

How about me

I posted yesterday morning that the Bombers were back in the hunt. I don’t think too many believed me. The key factor - I think - was GWS was pushing Shiel and Connors in their direction. That’s who they wanted to deal with once Shiel indicated he didn’t want to go to StKilda - they had the best “now” pick on the table. Hawthorn’s was too low and ours was 2019. I reckon from that point, Connors worked to convince Shiel that he could get him to Essendon with less fuss than either Carlton or Hawthorn. Essendon, for their part, had to up their $ offer which they did.

I reckon we could have become GWS “club of choice” - and perhaps, by extension, obtained Shiel, if we had put pick one on the table. I’m glad we didn’t and, in any case, he may have been reluctant to come to us given our ladder position

As for the quietness this morning, nobody knew anything. Shiel notified Carlton of his decision about 5 minutes before it was made public

Thanks ep.

Keep up the good work.

 

[reubsblues]

Im honesty not upset about not getting Sheil i recon he would of cost to much and we get to hold onto pick 1 for walsh who will be a better player the Shiel anyway and have 10 to 15 yrs at the club we also get Setterfield who will be a jet and wont cost the world and McGovern and Fasolo and it is still early in the trade period so dont be surprised if sos doesnt pull a rabbit out of the hat

 

[ferrisb]

I have been a long-time proponent of the patient rebuild; take your picks to the draft and top up with FAs.

It seems (somewhat) silly to throw pointy picks at recruits when a) you can get some for free b) the earlier in the rebuild the more you have to overpay.

So I am more than cool with missing out on Shiel. However, he would have made a big difference to our midfield next year and the club was clearly trying hard to lure him. So it is disappointing.

Overall I see missing Shiel as a definite setback to next year's performance, but possibly* better for the rebuild in the long run.



* I do believe this, but I'm probably also trying to console myself with this opinion.....

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Afternoon - well I’m disappointed I must admit. Held a firm belief that Shiel would add some further legitimacy to our football club, and I really like him as a footballer. Cest la Vie.

Anyway, I want to acknowledge those that posted legit info in the Rumour thread, including but not exclusively - EP, MS3, B70, Reg, 10c, SBYM, W30, 90, Wic, and others (apologies if I missed you). Much appreciated.

My mail also was/is in good faith and I can share this. From the family, via my coach mate, we were our 2019 1st alone as our offer. GWS wanted to deal with us but I believe were playing us a bit as they always wanted 2 firsts for him OR the #1 and a 2nd. It wasn’t about money for Dylan though, it was playing finals. His family were very hopeful we would up our offer, but we didn’t relent, and Dylan would have considered us, but the * were always high for him followed by the Dawks. We were 3rd for most of the run and would have jumped up to 1 if we had put the #1 on the table. Bit of this, bit of that really. The lunch with Devon Smith and some of their leaders sealed it apparently.

Personally, I’d like the club to try and deal for Tyson and Hunt. We could use both. Revisit Scrimshaw and maybe enquirer about Finlayson. Dunstan is certainly not the worst option. Lovell I don’t mind the look of as a small FWD/MID. What I’m trying to say is I hope they continue to look to get better and I’ll be happy.

Now, with no Shiel coming, I’ll accede to Walsh (or Mason). Still not convinced but I’ll join the masses.

If thats Jayden from Melb...then yes please, he's the type we need

 

[Aphrodite]

Welcome to Carlton Sam Walsh!


That is all ...........






for now