Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[JuddgementDay]

We should have a crack at Petracca. Would really be a massive get for us. Is it doable? Well it probably means Kennedy is not getting a game next season. He and/or Hewett. Cerra could well be in this boat with his form and body both taking a hit this season. Rumours were Melbourne had interest in Cerra. Depending on Melbourne's interests then these three players could be used along with our first to unlock this trade.

I don't think McKay will be traded. I don't think that would be a good idea anyway.

If Petracca can get out of his contract then that puts a lot of pressure on Melbourne. It means this is a serious trade scenario.

Media may be beating this up but who knows. Smoke = fire. Would love to have him.

Unfortunately, without losing someone like McKay, how would we be able to afford Petracca financially and trade wise?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

The individual plays footy to win flags, the club is the tool to make that happen. If the tool is blunt or superseded by a new one or has become dangerous, then the individual will change it…

If that individual was a KPD like Aleer, and we had a close to fully uninjured list, and Voss released the handbrake...
we'd probably be flag favourites this year.

We don't need Petracca to win a flag or 2.

But ignoring the draft for the next 2 years would be reckless.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I still dont understand why we are trying to trade him.


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I'm not sure we are - more that he's not a high priority resigning, so we're parking any discussions until we've seen what plays out in the trade period and if that means he looks elsewhere then we'll probably be happy to make it work for us.

 

[Blue__Balls]

.. because it’s nothing like the Carlton of old to which you refer.

Frankly, it’s a lazy and convenient take on the situation for those who are letting emotion towards Carlton players rule common sense.

And if it’s not that, then it’s an attitude of people who are so scarred by the past that they’re too afraid to embrace the present (which is still emotion ruling common sense, but for different reasons to what I meant above). Almost feels like some fans find comfort and security by being in this perpetual cycle of looking to the future - unable to take the final step in the present for risk of failure.

Hypothetically - we trade McKay for Petracca, go all in over the next few years, miss the flag for whatever reason....do those arguing for the club to make "bold" plays go quietly into the next rebuild, happy that the club made an effort, even if that means 5 years of replenishment via the draft at the bottom of the ladder?

 

[mochacinolatte]

Can Petrecca kick 50+ goals a year? I don't who is replacing that scoring power and don't come with me Brodie Kemp argument. We not getting that sort of production with him. At best we get a 30-35 a year.

 

[Red Bull]

It's not even unique to his case, Cripps several years ago talked about in an interview the commercial benefits to playing for a club like Carlton and how he's embraced his off-field business ventures.

It feels like this is a bit of slander against Petracca, probably form Melbourne to make him seem more selfish. Sure, the catch phrase "Brand Petracca" sounds wanky, to your point, but it's really not an unusual thing for a player to pursue, especially high-level ones. This has just been made public, and I doubt it's Petraccas crew that are putting it out there...

Yep,
Jack Dyer traded off the moniker “Captain Blood” all his life.
Same to for EJ “Mr Football” Whitten who went on to school Dermott “5 day 5 night” Brereton in the same way.
Champions have always traded off their names and status.
There’s a pretty clear attempt to smear Petracca’s name going on atm from the usual suspects though goodness knows who really pays much attention to them …

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Can Petrecca kick 50+ goals a year? I don't who is replacing that scoring power and don't come with me Brodie Kemp argument. We not getting that sort of production with him. At best we get a 30-35 a year.

Who was the pies key forward last year?

 

[Red Bull]

Hypothetically - we trade McKay for Petracca, go all in over the next few years, miss the flag for whatever reason....do those arguing for the club to make "bold" plays go quietly into the next rebuild, happy that the club made an effort, even if that means 5 years of replenishment via the draft at the bottom of the ladder?

Absolutely
Better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all.
If a club isn’t prepared to put it all on the line for a premiership when they have the chance, then what really is their purpose …

 

[I bleed Blue]

Why do I feel like we are going to spend the next 7 weeks, and 30,000 posts discussing Petracca. Just for it to never happen

 

[mochacinolatte]

Who was the pies key forward last year?

They barely had one in Brody Mihocek. But Collingwood gameplan wasn't suited to have KPF.

But I am going to challenge you on this. If you look at all the teams playing the Grand Final in the past 5 years. How many of them ran with 2 KPF?

2023
Collingwood - Mason Cox/Mihoceck
Brisbane - Hipwood/Danniher

2022
Geelong - Hawkins/Cameron
Sydney - Franklin/Reid

2021
Melbourne - McDonald/Ben Brown with a side of Jackson
Dogs - Naughton/English/Schache

2020
Richmond - Reidwoldt/Lynch
Geelong - Hawkins

2019
Richmond - Reidwoldt/Lynch
GWS - Cameron/Finlayson

2018
WCE - Darling/Kennedy
Collingwood - Cox/Mihoceck

As you can, most GF teams ran with 2 KPF.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Why do I feel like we are going to spend the next 7 weeks, and 30,000 posts discussing Petracca. Just for it to never happen

Dylan Shiel/ Josh Kelly/ Cogs fantasy land all over again.

 

[myblueroan]

Why do I feel like we are going to spend the next 7 weeks, and 30,000 posts discussing Petracca. Just for it to never happen

Because you remember Paps and Little Rabbit?

 

[myblueroan]

Dylan Shiel/ Josh Kelly/ Cogs fantasy land all over again.

Snap

 

[Aphrodite]

Dylan Shiel/ Josh Kelly/ Cogs fantasy land all over again.

Never forget Pavlich.

He only gets mentioned 5 mins before close of trade period

 

[mochacinolatte]

Never forget Pavlich.

He only gets mentioned 5 mins before close of trade period

Those were depressing time during trade periods thats for sure.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Absolutely
Better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all.
If a club isn’t prepared to put it all on the line for a premiership when they have the chance, then what really is their purpose …

Easy to say now - but I can't help but think that if it panned out that way, then the folks in the "be aggressive" camp would all of a sudden be panning the club for failing to get the "right" players, or failing to balance the list properly.

Ultimately, success is the only measure. Fans want flags, and they'll have their own ideas about how best to achieve that, but if the flags don't come then the blame is firmly back on the club for whatever decisions they did or did not make in that time.

I like to think I'm a realist. You can do everything right with your list management and still not win a flag, all it takes is one or two other clubs doing the same and then getting the odd bit of luck to give them the necessary edge. And with that in mind I think the smart play is to balance both sides of the equation - address short term list needs and recruit/develop good players behind that.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Regarding Petracca, I'd love to have him at the Blues and would take him in a heartbeat (as long as it doesn't cost us Harry or Charlie). However, I did see an interesting comment about Matthew Lloyd, who suffered a similar injury (ruptured spleen) in 1996 as a second-year player. Lloyd reportedly said it took him over 18 months to rebuild his strength, and that was at 18 years old. This makes me question how Petracca, nearly 29 with seemingly worse injuries, will recover. From all accounts, his elite preparation and professionalism will aid his rehab, but time is a factor that can't be overcome. There is also the mental demons to consider.

I'm confident Petracca will bounce back, but there are valid reasons to have some question marks. The unknowns do make it a gamble, raising the question: at what cost do you pay? A bit of buyer beware.

Geoff Southby was never quite the same player after he got his jaw broken by Balme in the '73 grand final.

 

[Red Bull]

Easy to say now - but I can't help but think that if it panned out that way, then the folks in the "be aggressive" camp would all of a sudden be panning the club for failing to get the "right" players, or failing to balance the list properly.

Ultimately, success is the only measure. Fans want flags, and they'll have their own ideas about how best to achieve that, but if the flags don't come then the blame is firmly back on the club for whatever decisions they did or did not make in that time.

I like to think I'm a realist. You can do everything right with your list management and still not win a flag, all it takes is one or two other clubs doing the same and then getting the odd bit of luck to give them the necessary edge. And with that in mind I think the smart play is to balance both sides of the equation - address short term list needs and recruit/develop good players behind that.

Just the way I see things BB
If a club is never ever prepared to go all in for a flag when they have the chance … then what are they ever really planning and preparing for …

 

[Stamos]

They barely had one in Brody Mihocek. But Collingwood gameplan wasn't suited to have KPF.

But I am going to challenge you on this. If you look at all the teams playing the Grand Final in the past 5 years. How many of them ran with 2 KPF?

The Filth also had McStay until he got injured in the Prelim

 

[Red Bull]

They barely had one in Brody Mihocek. But Collingwood gameplan wasn't suited to have KPF.

But I am going to challenge you on this. If you look at all the teams playing the Grand Final in the past 5 years. How many of them ran with 2 KPF?

2023
Collingwood - Mason Cox/Mihoceck
Brisbane - Hipwood/Danniher

2022
Geelong - Hawkins/Cameron
Sydney - Franklin/Reid

2021
Melbourne - McDonald/Ben Brown with a side of Jackson
Dogs - Naughton/English/Schache

2020
Richmond - Reidwoldt/Lynch
Geelong - Hawkins

2019
Richmond - Reidwoldt/Lynch
GWS - Cameron/Finlayson

2018
WCE - Darling/Kennedy
Collingwood - Cox/Mihoceck

As you can, most GF teams ran with 2 KPF.

And so would we …

Curnow/TDK/Kemp

(with Petracca exploding out of the centre)

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just the way I see things BB
If a club is never ever prepared to go all in for a flag when they have the chance … then what are they ever really planning and preparing for …

Yeah, no sweat, I find it all very interesting in terms of how people see it. As I said though, I think at the end of the day it comes down to winning a flag. Whatever strategy a club employs, not hitting that goal is essentially failure. Many see our best chance coming with Cripps in the guts, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see us fall short over the next few years - and if that happens, then our best chance of success may actually come from succession-planning and building off the improved culture that Cripps and Co have embedded.

 

[Stamos]

Just the way I see things BB
If a club is never ever prepared to go all in for a flag when they have the chance … then what are they ever really planning and preparing for …

It depends what going "all in" means.
Is throwing all your chips on the table for a punt?
Or is it consistently making smart decisions to have the best possible list for the most number of years and giving yourself the best chance to win multiple flags?

 

[Jatz]

Why do I feel like we are going to spend the next 7 weeks, and 30,000 posts discussing Petracca. Just for it to never happen

Keeps people coming back to the forums I guess.

 

[Jatz]

It depends what going "all in" means.
Is throwing all your chips on the table for a punt?
Or is it consistently making smart decisions to have the best possible list for the most number of years and giving yourself the best chance to win multiple flags?

I feel like this is going to get more and more difficult as time goes on. The talent pool is already stretched and we're about to add another team in.

Dynasties are going to become even harder.

 

[charred_fate]

Hypothetically - we trade McKay for Petracca, go all in over the next few years, miss the flag for whatever reason....do those arguing for the club to make "bold" plays go quietly into the next rebuild, happy that the club made an effort, even if that means 5 years of replenishment via the draft at the bottom of the ladder?

For starters, I don’t consider it a huge risk to our future. If we trade McKay and a first-rounder, it’s hardly putting our future at risk - even if it’s a first and a second. Let’s not forget we’re bringing in Trac after all.

What is the plan otherwise? In a few years, Cripps is coming to an end, the 2015 draft not far behind him … if we haven’t won one in their time, we’ve unquestionably screwed it. We should have achieved more than we have by now but we keep losing to teams with more powerful midfields.

Do you start again hoping for a different outcome?

Of course you go “all-in” (if that’s what you want to call it) now. We’ve got stars on every line - the real screw up in our recruiting is that we don’t have a top 3 midfield in the comp, possibly not even top 4 or 5 … and they’ve had 10+ years to get there while we’ve had Cripps. We win the midfield, we win the flag… and we would have a midfield equal to the Lions of 2001-2004.

People talk like going for Trac is the high-risk option. My view is that it’s the safe option.

If bringing Trac in doesn’t result in a flag, then, without question, the whole Club and the last 10 years has been a failure… but I doubt it would come to that.