Opinion Brian Cook - Carlton's rebuild still has a fair way to go

[kirbatron]

timelapse of me viewing the first carlton to finally breakout thread to now

 

[Spirit Level]

That's been done to death. Got any original thoughts?

The reasons why have been pointed out by many (including some level-headed neutrals), but the "lol nah" types just ignore that and fall back on the old "Carlton have been crap forever, therefore they will continue to be crap forever".
It must be hard work being that lazy.

How about you lay them out then, instead of getting defensive?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

What have Carlton done recently (or in the last 20 years) that convinces you that they will break out this year?

What have Fremantle done over 25+ years that suggests you can win a premiership?

If past performance is a strong indicator I suggest you throw away your scarf and start supporting West Coast.

It’s just a weak argument, but to answer your question, recruiting Cerra could be a factor in Carlton breaking out in 2022. It must hurt to know he’ll play 200+ A grade games in navy blue.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

It must hurt to know he’ll play 200+ A grade games in navy blue.

At least he's being overpaid because he's unlikely to find any team success there.

 

[La Dispute]

At least he's being overpaid because he's unlikely to find any team success there.

Cerra took unders to get away from WA

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Cerra took unders to get away from WA

Carlton ITKs say every Carlton player is paid way unders. Carlton ITKs also lie a lot.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

care to point out where this has occurred in this thread?

Or is it just a bullshit argument on your behalf of not liking the fact that some people don't rate your list as much as you do?

Take a look at yourself

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I am confident Hewett at 450k is the best trade Carlton has made in recent times. Will immediately improve the Carlton midfield offensively and defensively. Cerra will help but the list as a whole is mediocre.

Under Voss I reckon the Blues will enter a reset over one or two years to eliminate the many underperformers on the list.

 

[00Stinger]

Take a look at yourself

what for pointing out that the Carlton list isn't as good as their supporters think it is?

 

[Freomaniac]

Being drawn to play Freo twice is almost unfair.

8 points and a big percentage boost in the bag. Money for jam.

LOL My thoughts exactly....

And guess the 5 sides that got freo twice?

They are Demons, GWS, Saints, Blues And eagles.

Blues and eagles were handed very easy fixtures apparently

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

At least he's being overpaid because he's unlikely to find any team success there.

Took less to come home.

 

[Freomaniac]

Took less to come home.

In a way he did. But your mob gave Adam Cerra a 5 year contract right? or was it 4?

Freo offered him $700,000 a year to stay, your mob offered him $600-$650,000 a year

 

[Bloods86]

George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

was a great get, but I'm amazed there's 11 pages of this thread. I'd have thought a simple "No" would suffice.

 

[La Dispute]

Carlton ITKs say every Carlton player is paid way unders. Carlton ITKs also lie a lot.

Cripps chat turns birthday boy Cerra into a Blue on bargain deal

Adam Cerra will join what is shaping as a deep Carlton midfield next season after a deal with the Dockers was secured on Thursday.

www.google.com.au

Less than 600k pa! He must have hated Perth.

We are giggling.

 

[Freomaniac]

What have Fremantle done over 25+ years that suggests you can win a premiership?

If past performance is a strong indicator I suggest you throw away your scarf and start supporting West Coast.

It’s just a weak argument, but to answer your question, recruiting Cerra could be a factor in Carlton breaking out in 2022. It must hurt to know he’ll play 200+ A grade games in navy blue.

Good point,

Freo has made finals in 7 seasons out of 27 from 1995-2021. Its not great but its not as Bad as Richmond's period of 1983-2012 when the only thing they can look back on is the 1995 prelim final and 2001 prelim final. Not to mention finishing 9th in 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2006 and 2008. I felt Sorry for Matt Richardson to be honest.

I am curious on how freo go from 2022 to 2024, as once 2024 ends that is freos 30th season in the comp. I hope freo does make finals in 2022, 2023 and 2024. If they do, at least they made finals in 10 out of 30 seasons. Again, Not great but better than nothing.

Again, I have said with the current AFL climate of 8 finals spots with 18 sides, potentially growing into 20 sides eventually, I would be happy for freo to make finals in 10 to 12 years out of the next 30 years.

Gone are the days of that 1995-2010 period where you had a 50% chance of making finals when you had 8 finals spots from 16 teams.

For the record I was gutted that Cerra wanted to leave freo.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

He must have hated Perth

You keep saying this like you're trying to insult me lmao it's kinda weird

Maybe he wanted to go somewhere without the pressure of needing to succeed?

 

[gbatman]

I'm no Essendon lover but Draper/McGrath/Parish/Merrett/Langford/Caldwell/Shiel is much better than TDK/Walsh/Cripps/Dow/Kennedy/Cerra/Curnow/Hewitt

At this stage yes but tell me this, how did you rate that group a year or two ago? Things change and can change quickly, particularly when talking about teenagers/early 20's.

DeKoning a 22 year old ruckman yet to have a preseason without injury undoing things. Walsh 21, not yet in his prime and already a top AFL player ahead of all those mentioned on Essendon's list IMO. Cripps 26, has been good but not as good as he was a couple of seasons ago, no reason he can't return to form. Dow turned 22 a few months ago, hasn't set the world on fire but not many under 23 year old midfielders do. Kennedy 24, is ok but not sure if he is in the best 22, I think others might go past him but he's solid. Cerra 22, is a real quality player just out of his development period and ready to go forward in a big way as we saw in his last few months this season. Curnow will probably be pushed out of the best 22. Hewett 25, is a quality player. Guys like Stocker 21, Philp 20 and Kemp 20 are high draft picked mids and most likely going to step into Carlton's midfield as they mature. Lochie O'Brien 22, his last month of footy was great and suggests he's just as likely to be a part of that team as any.

That Essendon group is older than Carlton's group, they are more mature and that's what it comes down to. Draper 23, McGrath 23, Parish 24, Merrett 26, Langford 25, Caldwell 21, Shiel 28. All over that 23 year old hump apart from Caldwell. Compare that to Carlton. TDK 22, Walsh 21, Cripps 26, Dow 22, Kennedy 24, Cerra 22, Curnow 32 (not best 22 anymore IMO), Hewett (25) and you can include these guys coming into Carlton's midfield next year Philp 20, Kemp 20, O'Brien 22, Carroll 19 and Stocker 21. It's a lot younger than that Essendon group you mentioned and has more immature players in it. Go back a year or two and that Essendon group were younger and pretty poor. There is a massive difference between 21-22 year olds and 23-24 year olds in the AFL. That Essendon side matured, recruited mature players and had a good run keeping them fit and they played finals. Carlton has yet to do that with it's list. A lot of those players are still under 23, hence immature and a lot have been unable to play due to injury. Lets see how that Carlton group goes when most of those players are over 23 and fit. It will be a very different story. Essendon in 2020 finished 13th, Same as Carlton this year and then in 2021 where they finished 8th with a little list improvement and maturity. IMO it's not that Essendon's list is better or anything special, it's because that core group is good enough to make the 8, has matured and has had a good run with it's fitness. Carlton's group hasn't done that yet. They have recruited the mature players in this year but as for reaching maturity and having a good fitness run, not yet but that is about to happen.

My point being, you can make finals with a pretty mediocre list if things go well for you such as injuries, fitness, draw etc. Essendon at this point are much like Carlton. They are a middle of the road mediocre team trying to go a step or two better. Only three wins separated both. Like Carlton, there is talent there and plenty of potential but up to this point it has not translated into much. They snuck into finals after many years out and got absolutely walloped. Yeah it's a step forward for them but lets not get too excited, just because a team makes finals doesn't mean they have a really good list, a mediocre list can still finish 8th or 7th.

 

[cammo84]

Lochie O'Brien 22, his last month of footy was great and suggests he's just as likely to be a part of that team as any.

So great that they were willing to delist him and risk another club taking him

 

[La Dispute]

You keep saying this like you're trying to insult me lmao it's kinda weird

Maybe he wanted to go somewhere without the pressure of needing to succeed?

Well it’s significantly less money than he was offered by Freo, so it’s a fair assumption he did not want a bar of the west coast.

If he wanted less pressure and a big pay packet he would have requested a trade to North. Clearly wanted to pick up what the Blues were putting down.

It’s just what it is.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

what for pointing out that the Carlton list isn't as good as their supporters think it is?

I would have said the same thing about Melbourne's list 12 months ago (in fact i still do)

 

[00Stinger]

I would have said the same thing about Melbourne's list 12 months ago (in fact i still do)

Good for you, I'm don't really care how you do/don't rate the defending premiers list, kind of irrelevant to the thread

With the piss easy fixture Carlton have gotten, they should consolidate themselves in the 10th-13th bracket

Give it another 12-24 months and if everything goes right they should/could be pushing into the 8

 

[B4Bear]

What have Carlton done recently (or in the last 20 years) that convinces you that they will break out this year?

It will be 2022, and there hasn’t been a 2022 before; so you know new toys and the vibe.

 

[Jack Green]

George Hewett was a great get, but I'm amazed there's 11 pages of this thread. I'd have thought a simple "No" would suffice.

Break out no- but improve to make finals yes. Someone has to get kissed on the bum by a fairy with the fixture. And this year it's the Blues. Fixture can make a couple of wins difference. Sliding the back end of the 8 is something their fans could realistically expect now the draw is out. And they should achieve this next year.

 

[Milanista28]

At this stage yes but tell me this, how did you rate that group a year or two ago? Things change and can change quickly, particularly when talking about teenagers/early 20's.

DeKoning a 22 year old ruckman yet to have a preseason without injury undoing things. Walsh 21, not yet in his prime and already a top AFL player ahead of all those mentioned on Essendon's list IMO. Cripps 26, has been good but not as good as he was a couple of seasons ago, no reason he can't return to form. Dow turned 22 a few months ago, hasn't set the world on fire but not many under 23 year old midfielders do. Kennedy 24, is ok but not sure if he is in the best 22, I think others might go past him but he's solid. Cerra 22, is a real quality player just out of his development period and ready to go forward in a big way as we saw in his last few months this season. Curnow will probably be pushed out of the best 22. Hewett 25, is a quality player. Guys like Stocker 21, Philp 20 and Kemp 20 are high draft picked mids and most likely going to step into Carlton's midfield as they mature. Lochie O'Brien 22, his last month of footy was great and suggests he's just as likely to be a part of that team as any.

That Essendon group is older than Carlton's group, they are more mature and that's what it comes down to. Draper 23, McGrath 23, Parish 24, Merrett 26, Langford 25, Caldwell 21, Shiel 28. All over that 23 year old hump apart from Caldwell. Compare that to Carlton. TDK 22, Walsh 21, Cripps 26, Dow 22, Kennedy 24, Cerra 22, Curnow 32 (not best 22 anymore IMO), Hewett (25) and you can include these guys coming into Carlton's midfield next year Philp 20, Kemp 20, O'Brien 22, Carroll 19 and Stocker 21. It's a lot younger than that Essendon group you mentioned and has more immature players in it. Go back a year or two and that Essendon group were younger and pretty poor. There is a massive difference between 21-22 year olds and 23-24 year olds in the AFL. That Essendon side matured, recruited mature players and had a good run keeping them fit and they played finals. Carlton has yet to do that with it's list. A lot of those players are still under 23, hence immature and a lot have been unable to play due to injury. Lets see how that Carlton group goes when most of those players are over 23 and fit. It will be a very different story. Essendon in 2020 finished 13th, Same as Carlton this year and then in 2021 where they finished 8th with a little list improvement and maturity. IMO it's not that Essendon's list is better or anything special, it's because that core group is good enough to make the 8, has matured and has had a good run with it's fitness. Carlton's group hasn't done that yet. They have recruited the mature players in this year but as for reaching maturity and having a good fitness run, not yet but that is about to happen.

My point being, you can make finals with a pretty mediocre list if things go well for you such as injuries, fitness, draw etc. Essendon at this point are much like Carlton. They are a middle of the road mediocre team trying to go a step or two better. Only three wins separated both. Like Carlton, there is talent there and plenty of potential but up to this point it has not translated into much. They snuck into finals after many years out and got absolutely walloped. Yeah it's a step forward for them but lets not get too excited, just because a team makes finals doesn't mean they have a really good list, a mediocre list can still finish 8th or 7th.

We've also got, Cox, Perkins, Durham and Hobbs behind that group you mentioned, And Stringer is a pretty handy center square mid as well.

I think our midfield on paper looks better short and long term, but that means little when the ball bounces.

 

[Bloods86]

Break out no- but improve to make finals yes. Someone has to get kissed on the bum by a fairy with the fixture. And this year it's the Blues. Fixture can make a couple of wins difference. Sliding the back end of the 8 is something their fans could realistically expect now the draw is out. And they should achieve this next year.

They'd need 4 extra wins (+50% on 2021), plus a couple of others around the mark have been given decent draws. Fixturing can only do so much, and they'd have had perpetual decent to great draws for quite some time now. Just sounds like the same talk again.