Oppo Camp Brodie Grundy (Traded to Melbourne 2022)

[Wearmouth]

If you think that gaining territory is not the name of the game I can’t help.
Kicking fwd is always preferable to getting caught if you have no safer option eg. a handball or kick to a free team mate.

It’s pretty basic really.

Again No…..

Keeping possession until you can launch an effective attack is the game. Do yourself a favor and watch the Dreamons dismantle a dump kicking GWS just looking for territory last night.

I’ll repeat. You can’t see the forest from the trees…..And that I can’t help you with. That’s on you.

You know that old saying….

You can lead a horse to water…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sr36]

Gawn does everything a ruckman should and then some, Grundy reads like a very tall ruck rover.

Brodie Grundy and Max Gawn AFL Stats Comparison

Brodie Grundy and Max Gawn AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Stopworrying about Gawns strengths. They'll never be Grundy's. He does read like a very tall ruck rover - that's his strength. A very tall ruck rover who is very good at winning hit outs. He needs to focus on and improve those strengths by using the footy better, thus becoming a better ruck rover than he's currently playing as.

Gawn has a very different skillset - excellent marking, to go with a similar standard of ruck work. Gawn is currently a significantly better player as he is doing his around the ground aerial game a lot better than Grundy is currently doing his ruck roving.

 

[No SPIN]

Again No…..

Keeping possession until you can launch an effective attack is the game. Do yourself a favor and watch the Dreamons dismantle a dump kicking GWS just looking for territory last night.

I’ll repeat. You can’t see the forest from the trees…..And that I can’t help you with. That’s on you.

You know that old saying….

You can lead a horse to water…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You keep arguing about dump kicks which happen in contested situations ie. stoppages and pack.
That’s when most of Grundy’s dump kick happen.
It’s all about territory in those circumstances because safe options are rare in such contested situations.
Simple mate, very simple.

It GWS had T/O over the ball where the dump kick was taken from, they would have lost by another 10 goals.

 

[Piestration]

Disagree. We gauge effectiveness of a ruckman differently, I guess.

Don't you know it's all about the stats.

 

[dinderman]

Stopworrying about Gawns strengths. They'll never be Grundy's. He does read like a very tall ruck rover - that's his strength. A very tall ruck rover who is very good at winning hit outs. He needs to focus on and improve those strengths by using the footy better, thus becoming a better ruck rover than he's currently playing as.

Gawn has a very different skillset - excellent marking, to go with a similar standard of ruck work. Gawn is currently a significantly better player as he is doing his around the ground aerial game a lot better than Grundy is currently doing his ruck roving.

We've got plenty of ruck rovers.

 

[dinderman]

Thanks Dinder...

Gawn is a lot older than Grundy isn't he? I think BG will improve on his current output -- he's just a bit down at the moment. He might even be carrying a niggle. I totally get the angst, and the criticism, and also those who want to support him. Let's just merge the two and go for a balanced outlook?

Gawn is 30, Grundy is 28, I'd look at moving him on simply because he'll be 32/33 when the whips are cracking and we are in our window.

 

[manicpie]

I know you don’t like to deal in facts, just fantasies where players like Brodie Grundy are the best in the league…

2015? Wow, you are slow.

Be careful because he will start crying then report you. Pretty sure Gouki just likes to stir up trouble then can't handle the pressure so he abuses you, just block him.

 

[sr36]

We've got plenty of ruck rovers.

Not who are very good in ruck contests and provide a really strong physical contest at ground level around stoppage. We've got one. The league has one.

 

[dinderman]

Not who are very good in ruck contests and provide a really strong physical contest at ground level around stoppage. We've got one. The league has one.

Yeah his 5 effective disposals Grand Final day were the difference, lucky us.

 

[TradeDraft]

Intresting how he Responds with the Media starting to get Stuck into him

 

[sr36]

Yeah his 5 effective disposals Grand Final day were the difference, lucky us.

Had you ever before seen 2 blokes rotating in a tag on a ruckman? That's how influential he was at the time.

 

[swoop42]

The contract is done.
There’s nothing we can do about it now.
What we can do though is get the best out of him…and I’m holding belief that he will return to some peak form and that the coaching group will get it out of him soon enough.

Treloar might disagree.

 

[HFF]

Treloar might disagree.

Nobody is taking this one on unfortunately

 

[Wearmouth]

Stopworrying about Gawns strengths. They'll never be Grundy's. He does read like a very tall ruck rover - that's his strength. A very tall ruck rover who is very good at winning hit outs. He needs to focus on and improve those strengths by using the footy better, thus becoming a better ruck rover than he's currently playing as.

Gawn has a very different skillset - excellent marking, to go with a similar standard of ruck work. Gawn is currently a significantly better player as he is doing his around the ground aerial game a lot better than Grundy is currently doing his ruck roving.

Hilarious…..

What Gawn is doing are exactly the attributes you need in a Ruckman. Why Grundy is now ineffective is that the opposition have worked that out and don’t let him get away with it. You can’t stop Gawn roaming the ground stepping into contests and intercepting. Blocking holes, taking defensive marks. The tall guys don’t get shorter so they use that strength. Well the good ones do anyways.

Grundy’s so called strengths according to those who are clueless are his contested ruck clearances and his ruck roving abilities. Well until teams work that out then they are his liabilities.

Neither yourself or NO SPIN understand the game well enough. To keep arguing this issue.

Just keep watching over the next month and see what actually happens.

My bet is that Grundy and Adams will change. Or they will see change happen. With or without their approval.

We can review this point after another 5/6 games. When we’ll either still be in contention or we’ll be playing to work out what we’ve got for next year. The Grundy and Adams debates will be done by then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wearmouth]

You keep arguing about dump kicks which happen in contested situations ie. stoppages and pack.
That’s when most of Grundy’s dump kick happen.
It’s all about territory in those circumstances because safe options are rare in such contested situations.
Simple mate, very simple.

It GWS had T/O over the ball where the dump kick was taken from, they would have lost by another 10 goals.

It’s not simple. Far from it…

I could keep trying to explain it to you but that would be an exercise in futility. The fact that you don’t understand that only dumb teams put boot to ball aimlessly and hope for a better result.

A bit like trying to keep explaining to you the merits of Grundy changing his game.

Just like teams setting up trying to make you dump kick. That’s exactly what they want and thus when you deliver the ball to them. That’s why you lose. Not because you try and keep possession.

I could explain other strategies, that good teams use to beat dumb teams. But I’m afraid you wouldn’t understand.

Maybe you’re a visual learner. Watch Freo(Longmuir) v Ess(Rutten) and we can have a chat who the dumb team was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dinderman]

Had you ever before seen 2 blokes rotating in a tag on a ruckman? That's how influential he was at the time.

Yes 2 nobodies and he got 5 effective disposals.

 

[swoop42]

Grundy needs to spend the next preseason training with the forward group IMO as any improvement in his ruck work will be small and incremental now whereas if he can develop his forward craft and be trained to improve his contested marking ability over the summer it'll greatly add to his value as a player in 2023.

 

[eddiesmith]

Thanks Dinder...

Gawn is a lot older than Grundy isn't he? I think BG will improve on his current output -- he's just a bit down at the moment. He might even be carrying a niggle. I totally get the angst, and the criticism, and also those who want to support him. Let's just merge the two and go for a balanced outlook?

At 28 a ruckman isn’t going to get better and better, he’s on the downward slope and he’s laughing all the way to the bank.

Luckily for him a premiership isn’t a goal of his.

 

[TradeDraft]

Grundy needs to spend the next preseason training with the forward group IMO as any improvement in his ruck work will be small and incremental now whereas if he can develop his forward craft and be trained to improve his contested marking ability over the summer it'll greatly add to his value as a player in 2023.

Been saying for a Few Years he should at least Rest sometimes up Forward

 

[sr36]

Hilarious…..

What Gawn is doing are exactly the attributes you need in a Ruckman. Why Grundy is now ineffective is that the opposition have worked that out and don’t let him get away with it. You can’t stop Gawn roaming the ground stepping into contests and intercepting. Blocking holes, taking defensive marks. The tall guys don’t get shorter so they use that strength. Well the good ones do anyways.

Grundy’s so called strengths according to those who are clueless are his contested ruck clearances and his ruck roving abilities. Well until teams work that out then they are his liabilities.

Neither yourself or NO SPIN understand the game well enough. To keep arguing this issue.

Just keep watching over the next month and see what actually happens.

My bet is that Grundy and Adams will change. Or they will see change happen. With or without their approval.

We can review this point after another 5/6 games. When we’ll either still be in contention or we’ll be playing to work out what we’ve got for next year. The Grundy and Adams debates will be done by then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd argue that anyone who talks about ruck or any other position as a set role that must be played in a certain way is someone who doesn't get the current game. If you've got a bloke who is good at winning hitouts and can also intercept and clunk at a high level like Gawn - fantastic, he's a weapon. If you've got a bloke who is good at winning hitouts and also following up at ground level like Grundy did so well for a few years, fantastic, he's a weapon.

With our more attacking set up, Grundy needs to improve his disposal to return to being a weaoon, but he's still well above most other rucks, even if he doesn't play the position in the way you were taught it should be played.

 

[jonbe54]

Comparisons are pointless.

Grundy is a shadow of the player he was but we are stuck with him.

So the only option we have left is to beef up our on ball presence - that's all around the ground. Wherever the ruck is contested we have to at least halve it and if that means defensive roving so be it.

The facts are in - Grundy struggles to break even with 2nd rucks - let alone firsts.

He WAS a great ruck but not anymore.

Damage control is our only option.

 

[No SPIN]

It’s not simple. Far from it…

I could keep trying to explain it to you but that would be an exercise in futility. The fact that you don’t understand that only dumb teams put boot to ball aimlessly and hope for a better result.

A bit like trying to keep explaining to you the merits of Grundy changing his game.

Just like teams setting up trying to make you dump kick. That’s exactly what they want and thus when you deliver the ball to them. That’s why you lose. Not because you try and keep possession.

I could explain other strategies, that good teams use to beat dumb teams. But I’m afraid you wouldn’t understand.

Maybe you’re a visual learner. Watch Freo(Longmuir) v Ess(Rutten) and we can have a chat who the dumb team was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously your eyes I painted on - I never said the dump kick should be the first option. It’s the option when keeping possession with a HB or kick isn’t possible. Which is usually the case in contested and tight situations.

It’s a simple reality and used by the best teams even Melb.
That you have no capacity to understand this very simple tenant of the game is regrettable.

I’ve made my point, and have no interest in offering basic lessons on how the games played.

“AFL for dummies” might be a book you should consider buying,

 

[TradeDraft]

Comparisons are pointless.

Grundy is a shadow of the player he was but we are stuck with him.

So the only option we have left is to beef up our on ball presence - that's all around the ground. Wherever the ruck is contested we have to at least halve it and if that means defensive roving so be it.

The facts are in - Grundy struggles to break even with 2nd rucks - let alone firsts.

He WAS a great ruck but not anymore.

Damage control is our only option.

Can't Expect Grundy to do Everything all the Time

Having more Help on-ball might mean he does not get so Tired during the Game

 

[jonbe54]

Can't Expect Grundy to do Everything all the Time

Having more Help on-ball might mean he does not get so Tired during the Game

It starts from the head TD and has nothing to do with weariness, he used to be a great ruckman because his heart and head was into it.

One or the other is missing now.

He is barely breaking even with 2nd string ruckman - 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters.

He is FAR better than that when he's fair dinkum about committing to the contest with heart and soul.

THAT is absent.

 

[TradeDraft]

It starts from the head TD and has nothing to do with weariness, he used to be a great ruckman because his heart and head was into it.

One or the other is missing now.

He is barely breaking even with 2nd string ruckman - 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters.

He is FAR better than that when he's fair dinkum about committing to the contest with heart and soul.

THAT is absent.

It's been missing every since Covid Started but afterwards he has not been the Same