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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)
- Thread starter adammania9
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To be honest, speaking about GAJ in the same breath as Dusty, is becoming a bit of an insult to Dustin Martin.
One was a mercenary, a stat peddlar, a selfish champion, who played worse in big games, whose teams got better after he left, the other is a loyal, unselfish, team player who played better, the higher the stakes, with a higher winning % in home and away, in finals, and in grand finals
The only real comparison is with Leigh Matthews
Because they're both champion midfielders who moved forward at the end of their careers and I personally have GAJ as a good marker for longevity. It's also an apt comparison of a player in a similar kind of role having a good but not AA worthy season, so the screeching of "Martin an AA lock" doesn't fly.
In a 22 game season like GAJ's 2019, Martin wouldn't even be playing today. His missed games aren't something to brag about. Who knows how sore Ablett was playing late in the year when his output trailed of.
Forwards one woods, and in fact Martin's one wood throughout his career, has been proclivity in goals and assists. Martin was decent but not outstanding in that area. if we want to break it up further, average until round 17 and then strong round 18 onwards as Richmond's season faded into obscurity.
Like everything, if it wasn't for the extreme overhyping by the fan boys, more neutrals would simply respect Martin's output. If you overrate something there is natural push back.
The fact that Noidnadroj likes such ridiculous toxicity by you reveals the amount of credibility he actually has in all of these matters, and the agenda that drives it. Imagine siding with blaisee the imbecilic troll, of all people. I get the tribalism thing, stick with those wearing your colours, but it's endlessly amusing the connection with some of the site's biggest buffoons.
Noidnadroj
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Probably because this thread is about whether Martin can be the GOAT, and Ablett’s career is an obvious reason why he can’t.
You seem quite impressed with Dusty’s game today. 33 and 1 with sounds pretty decent. Imagine averaging that over an entire season, Ablett did it twice. 30 and 1? He did it 5 times. Dusty? Zero on both accounts.
You called this season from Martin ‘remarkable’. I can’t even imagine the superlatives you’d use if assessing the numerous elite seasons of Ablett that were much better than this one from Dusty.
I get a good chuckle out of things like you sloppily trying to dismiss kidkenobi 's comprehensive post on Ablett one day, to liking blaisee's foul mouthed trolling about the same player the next. That very clearly shows your true colours on the matter and why a large heaping of salt must be taken with every single post of yours.Why do I trigger u so?
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Look how you crawled away from the AA thread after clumsily trying to diminish Larkey's AA candidacy with another "Richmond were screwed" comparison from 2012.
He's now a forward who floats up to the midfield, not a midfielder who drifts forward to do maximum damage. Disposals are great but Richmond lack goal kickers. They need Dusty the elite finisher. His one goal today shouldn't have even happened as it followed a hospital handpass to injure his team mate in what was a blatant missed HTB.
Even including that, 5 forwards kicked more big ones: Evans, Rioli, Powell-Pepper, Lord and Bolton.
Richmond need 20 disposal and 4 goal games from Martin, not 33 and 1s.
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Round 24.
D. Martin - 3 votes.
D. Martin - 3 votes.
Noidnadroj
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Martin played a great game today. That’s all I mentioned. Then everyone spews out .. yeah, but GAJ did this, GAJ did that ……
The fact in a game lost by 5-goals he achieves:
Most disposals
Most contested possessions
Most score involvements
Most Inside-50’s
People scream … yeah, but what’s about this, what about that, what about a handball where Bolton got tackled, what about GAJ etc… just shows the level of triggering.
He played a brilliant game. If you can’t acknowledge it then that’s all we need to know.
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He had a very good game. That can be true while acknowledging that he fluffed a number of kicks and had 2 score involvements in the second half. By the end, Rozee, Butters and Houston had a bigger impact for mine. Dusty would be equal 3rd or 4th. Fantasy points had him 3rd but IMO underrated Butters a little.
The best Martin games for me have always had multiple goals or assists, and I expected as a genuine forward (not just rotating up there) that there would be more of those. He's had 9 of those this season, those are the 9 big ticks for me as a forward. He's had strong games where that hasn't been the case but with Richmond's impotent forward line, those weren't usually the difference makers. Ablett in 2019 had 14 of those multiple assist or goal games.
4 times Martin has reached 3 plus goals/assists this season. 10 times for GAJ in 2019. More scoreboard impact would've meant a better season for 2023 Martin, I'm happy to stand by that. After Riewoldt and perhaps even ahead of Riewoldt, he should've been primary destroyer and aimed for a 40 goal season up forward. A 40 goal, 15 assist season going at 20 disposals a game and I reckon he'd have had a genuine case for AA. So he was still almost a goal a game short.
Noidnadroj
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If I’m not mistaken, the number of non-KPF to get more coaches votes than Martin this season is likely to equal 1 … Toby Greene.
Number of forwards with more disposals = 0. More contested possessions = 0. More clearances = 0. More score involvements = 1.
For a bloke in a team coming 13th. I love the comparisons to GAJ who played permanent forward in a team that finished top.
FWIW I don’t think he’ll make AA as not many players outside finals usually get in.
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Number of forwards with more disposals = 0. More contested possessions = 0. More clearances = 0. More score involvements = 1.
For a bloke in a team coming 13th. I love the comparisons to GAJ who played permanent forward in a team that finished top.
FWIW I don’t think he’ll make AA as not many players outside finals usually get in.
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only triggered fans would not appreciate Dusty today.
Imagine watching a game of football, that does not involve your team, to watch and hope and pray that 1 player fails?
And to do this to help you cope with losing to him single handedly, again, and again, and again?
His effect on Geelong fans, is almost the same effect he has had on Richmond fans, but in the opposite direction.
While all he has given us is joy and glory, the amount of pain and suffering that this man has caused one supporter base is legendary, and befitting a goat
Recognising Martin as the 3rd or 4th best player today hardly falls into that category. It's fine to say it wasn't a flawless clear BOG either. A strong finish to the season doesn't make it an AA season overall, and you have just admitted you don't think he'll make it in anyway. It's pure copium to suggest it would be based on anything besides merit.
Bolded is complete projection from your entire posting history about Geelong. You have said you would quit the site if Stewart earned an AA jumper or Geelong won the 2022 premiership. You are pathetic. Martin could win 4 more flags and it would not matter to me at all. I just don't think he is the GOAT and I don't think his 2023 season has strengthened his case as the GOAT.
There would be zero reason to heap praise on other Richmond or indeed Hawthorn players if any of this had a personal element. Hodge destroyed us in 2008 and is a champion, one of my favourite players, but also not the GOAT. Hell, Lynch in 2019 stung the most and it hasn't affected my appraisal of him as a player at all.
Continue to overrate one player and you'll continue to get people laugh it off and present cases to the contrary.
Why would the most overhyped player in history, one in which the commentary adulation remains at all time highs, not make the AA season if he was AA worthy? The hype machine increases likelihood of the exact opposite situation. You seriously think the AA selection committee are an anti-Richmond/Martin illuminati? Do you realise how insane that makes you sound?
Looking back through some of his takes on Twitter is hilarious.
Do you rate Hoyney's opinion or not? Ablett 5, Dangerfield 2, Pendlebury 2, Martin 1 for best seasons 2010-2019. If they extended it to 15 and made it 2007-2020, throw another 3 to GAJ for 2007-2009 to make it Ablett 8.
Noidnadroj
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Almost an insane as a Geelong supporter who has posted 14 times in this thread within the first 2 hours of a Tiger game finishing.
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You do realise post-counting on a football forum as some kind of "gotcha" only makes you look like the sad one? Like I said, any kind of deflection once you get shut down on the topic at hand, rinse and repeat. All because you can't accept why a) neutrals don't think Martin is the best of all time or even this century and b) neutrals don't think Martin's 2023 has been AA standard.Almost an insane as a Geelong supporter who has posted 14 times in this thread within the first 2 hours of a Tiger game finishing.
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But sure, respond and respond, bait and bait, so you can then tell everyone how obsessed they are.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
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Geez you’re sensitive. It was an arbitrary number of 14. You accused someone else of being insane. When i returned the favour you drop your bottom lip.
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If the implication is that blaisee and I operate at the same level, or indeed blaisee and anyone operate at the same level, we are in a lot of trouble. I'm fairly sure you are well aware of this but I admire you sticking fat with him just because he's a Richmond/Martin man.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
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That’s a new record … you replied to my message before I’d hit send. Impressive.
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