Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

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Mr Meow said:
If you want to talk about truly elite seasons, you and MR are a fan of things like CD's AFL Player Ratings. Afterall they take all of the stats and blend them into one overall score.

Your contention is that Martin is "unlucky" to only have 4 AA's and not 8 or 9. Dangerfield the opposite - "any half decent season gets an AA selection".

Why is that Dangerfield has had seasons with an AFL Player Rating of 16 or above on 8 occassions, compared to 4 times (1 being his truncated 2021 season - so in reality 3 times) for Martin? Supercoach average above 110 points once for Martin compared to 8 times for Dangerfield? Coaches votes average of 2.9 or above 5 times compared to 7 times for Dangerfield?

Are the coaches and analysts doing something wrong with the raw data? If only they would just set elite at "23+ disposals and 1.1+ goals". That seems to be the most comprehensive approach. It's one hell of a reach.
Click to expand...

Did you just quote SC scores? Now you’ve really jumped the shark. Joel Bowden used to dominate those. Your analysis used to be credible … SC scores … hahaha.


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Noidnadroj said:
Don’t confuse the message … taking out Martin’s 4 x AA seasons his career average is 23.47 and 1.15. Those are his averages. So I then looked at who has averaged more than that in a single season and it’s 7-players over the last 9-years. Doesn’t mean any more or any less than that.

It’s no different to saying Buddy’s goal average taking out his best 4 x seasons is 2.9 goals (for example), and each season only 1-2 players achieve this. You can then get your knickers in a knot and say … ‘yeah … but but but such and such took more marks or got more SI’s or had more goal assists etc….’ But if almost no-one averages as many goals in a single season as Buddy averages across his career ‘taking out’ his best seasons we know Buddy is an elite goal kicker.

All I was addressing was on-going criticism of Martin’s supposed lack of elite seasons. So by presenting very easy to understand disposal and goal averages he has maintained across 199 x games, and showing almost nobody achieves this in a single season, it puts to bed any thoughts of Martin not being amazingly consistent and elite from day one.

I don’t know why you felt compelled to spew out Dangers stats as it has nothing to do with anything I was talking about.


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You start by saying it doesn’t mean much. Then try to use it as a justification for him being elite.

And Dusty has been really good his whole career. He’s only had one year at the level needed to put himself in the GOAT conversation though. Where the players who are in that conversation have done it for many many years.

It’s a tough bar to clear and Dusty doesn’t clear it.
 

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H00t said:
You start by saying it doesn’t mean much. Then try to use it as a justification for him being elite.

And Dusty has been really good his whole career. He’s only had one year at the level needed to put himself in the GOAT conversation though. Where the players who are in that conversation have done it for many many years.

It’s a tough bar to clear and Dusty doesn’t clear it.
Click to expand...

Hey? If you are constantly churning out amounts of disposals and goals in combination that barely anyone else in the whole competition is matching, how could you not be performing at elite level? You are just arguing for the sake of it.

If you look at your second statement you could say nobody else in history has put themselves int eh GOAT conversation because there is no record of any player playing a more decorated season than Dusty's 2017, Brownlow and Coaches MVP with record votes, more finals series coaches votes than any other player that isn't Dustin Martin has ever received, and a Norm Smith Medal, AA selection and B & F. To add to 9 score involvements and 2.7 goals + assists average per game over the season, 14.5 contested possessions all of which rose appreciably in the 3 x 37 year drought breaking finals. And was the top rated player by official AFL ratings as well with a hugely high average rating.


If so many others are so much better than Dustin Martin, why hasn't anyone put together a better season than that? Maybe because that is also a tough bar to clear, and Dusty is the only player to clear it.

All that is being said by pointing out the elite achievements of Dusty across all his other seasons is that it isn't like he played one huge year out of nowhere and beside that he did nothing of note. He has been very consistently elite.
 
Noidnadroj said:
Did you just quote SC scores? Now you’ve really jumped the shark. Joel Bowden used to dominate those. Your analysis used to be credible … SC scores … hahaha.


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Click to expand...
You guys are the ones who quote AFL ratings, CD based scores all the time. They're all the same noise to me. When they all, along with coaches and Brownlow votes, stack in one guys favour - then maybe the other guy hasn't been so unlucky to have less AA selections after all.

There's a reason compared to others that Martin's seasons are less normally distributed around his averages. Because his best few seasons were in a different category to the rest. If ONLY Richmond supporters think he has been unlucky and underrated, then he hasn't been. It's amusing having to spell this out to you again.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
I notice he steered clear of finals scores for some unknowable reason. :)
Click to expand...
I'm just delighted that this triggered you enough to stop you pretending you're keeping me on the ignore list. I had a feeling it would draw you out. And all for a pathetically meagre response too. Best to go back to liking Noid's posts as more of a cheerleading role, old man.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Hey? If you are constantly churning out amounts of disposals and goals in combination that barely anyone else in the whole competition is matching, how could you not be performing at elite level? You are just arguing for the sake of it.

If you look at your second statement you could say nobody else in history has put themselves int eh GOAT conversation because there is no record of any player playing a more decorated season than Dusty's 2017, Brownlow and Coaches MVP with record votes, more finals series coaches votes than any other player that isn't Dustin Martin has ever received, and a Norm Smith Medal, AA selection and B & F. To add to 9 score involvements and 2.7 goals + assists average per game over the season, 14.5 contested possessions all of which rose appreciably in the 3 x 37 year drought breaking finals. And was the top rated player by official AFL ratings as well with a hugely high average rating.


If so many others are so much better than Dustin Martin, why hasn't anyone put together a better season than that? Maybe because that is also a tough bar to clear, and Dusty is the only player to clear it.

All that is being said by pointing out the elite achievements of Dusty across all his other seasons is that it isn't like he played one huge year out of nowhere and beside that he did nothing of note. He has been very consistently elite.
Click to expand...
All you proved there is exactly what the poster was saying, that he only had one complete season at the level required. Then two other finals series which by themselves along with 2017 make him a champion of this era, no doubt. But he needed at least 4 or 5 seasons near 2017 to be in the conversation.
 
Noidnadroj said:
Did you just quote SC scores? Now you’ve really jumped the shark. Joel Bowden used to dominate those. Your analysis used to be credible … SC scores … hahaha.


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Click to expand...
SC favours chip scab half backs but also fairly accurately plucks out the very best midfielders and attackers. The huge games from the latter two receive big scores in all the CD based categories. It's rare for all three of them to be wrong AND the coaches are wrong AND the AA selectors are wrong for a bunch of years when comparing two midfielders.
 
Midfielders
8 – Gary Ablett Jr. | 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
8 – Patrick Dangerfield | 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
8 – Mark Ricciuto | 1994, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005
6 - Chris Judd | 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
6 - Joel Selwood | 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017
6 - Scott Pendlebury | 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2019
6 - Ben Cousins | 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006
5 - Dane Swan | 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
5 - Scott West | 1998, 2000, 2004, 2005, 2006
5 - Simon Goodwin | 2000, 2001, 2005, 2006, 2009
5 - Marcus Bontempelli | 2016, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2023
4 - Dustin Martin | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020
4 - Nigel Lappin | 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
4 - Brent Harvey | 2000, 2005, 2007, 2008

Just leaving this here for no particular reason.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Hey? If you are constantly churning out amounts of disposals and goals in combination that barely anyone else in the whole competition is matching, how could you not be performing at elite level? You are just arguing for the sake of it.

If you look at your second statement you could say nobody else in history has put themselves int eh GOAT conversation because there is no record of any player playing a more decorated season than Dusty's 2017, Brownlow and Coaches MVP with record votes, more finals series coaches votes than any other player that isn't Dustin Martin has ever received, and a Norm Smith Medal, AA selection and B & F. To add to 9 score involvements and 2.7 goals + assists average per game over the season, 14.5 contested possessions all of which rose appreciably in the 3 x 37 year drought breaking finals. And was the top rated player by official AFL ratings as well with a hugely high average rating.


If so many others are so much better than Dustin Martin, why hasn't anyone put together a better season than that? Maybe because that is also a tough bar to clear, and Dusty is the only player to clear it.

All that is being said by pointing out the elite achievements of Dusty across all his other seasons is that it isn't like he played one huge year out of nowhere and beside that he did nothing of note. He has been very consistently elite.
Click to expand...
You want to say someone else is arguing just for the sake of it?

It’s not about the awards but at the level he played at. That year he was starting to touch the levels that GAJ, Matthews, Carey and GAS reached. Then he came nowhere near it for the rest of his career where those guys did it for many years.

In this conversation to be elite is a very high bar. It’s not just the normal standard of elite. He has been very consistent but only one year puts him in this conversation. Every other year wouldn’t even rate a mention if it was those other guys. That’s how well they played.
 
RUNVS said:
Midfielders
8 – Gary Ablett Jr. | 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
8 – Patrick Dangerfield | 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
8 – Mark Ricciuto | 1994, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005
6 - Chris Judd | 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
6 - Joel Selwood | 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017
6 - Scott Pendlebury | 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2019
6 - Ben Cousins | 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006
5 - Dane Swan | 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
5 - Scott West | 1998, 2000, 2004, 2005, 2006
5 - Simon Goodwin | 2000, 2001, 2005, 2006, 2009
5 - Marcus Bontempelli | 2016, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2023
4 - Dustin Martin | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020
4 - Nigel Lappin | 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
4 - Brent Harvey | 2000, 2005, 2007, 2008

Just leaving this here for no particular reason.
Click to expand...

Your list asks us to believe that since AA selection became actual:

  • 3 of the best 4 midfielders played for Geelong
  • 3 of the best 11 midfielders played for Adelaide
  • 2 of the best 8 played for Collingwood
  • 2 of the best 7 played for West Coast
  • 2 of the best 11 played for Bulldogs

And the top 11 played in 11 Grand Final wins between them.

And none of the best 11 played for the Hawthorn, Brisbane or Richmond teams who won 10 Grand Finals between them.

That is why it it is known as LOL Australian selection. :)
 
Last edited:
adammania9 said:
That's greatest of all time by the way.

Just a fact check, Dustin Martin is 26 years old. Gary Ablett Jr who is often put in the GOAT discussions at 26 had:
  • 2 premierships (Dusty has one) I'm not a fan of flags, as it's a team award
  • 1 Brownlow medal (Dusty has one)
- 112 Brownlow votes (Dusty has 134)
  • 3x MVP awards (Dusty has one)
  • 4x All-Australians (Dusty has two)
  • 2x Best and fairests (Dusty should win his 2nd)
  • 2x B&F's in premiership years (Dusty should have one coming up)

So at 26 years old, Dusty is a bit behind GAJ at the same age, but obviously as we've seen, is virtually unstoppable and I think he might have a case should his career span maybe 8 more years? Most if not all would need to be elite. I'd go as far as to say Dusty's current ability exceeds Ablett Jr's best. I'm young but I haven't seen a player other than Carey's highlight reels be such a God-like figure on the field who could single-handedly carry his team over the line. Martin also looks destined to be a one-club player which for obvious reasons, is always looked up more to than multi-club players by AFL fans.

Dusty just completed the first hat-trick ever - Brownlow/Premiership/Norm Smith in the one season. Should he continue at a similar level which I see no reason why he can not, Martin by career's end could be one of the greatest ever. A second premiership would be huge to his credentials.

What do y'all think?
Click to expand...
No.

Not even in the best 5 of all time.

Matthews.
Ablett Jnr.
Ablett SNR.
Carey.
Hart.
Lockett.
Dunstall.
Hudson.
Reynolds.
Franklin.

I'd take any of the above before Martin.


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Meteoric Rise said:
Your list asks us to believe that since AA selection became actual:

  • 3 of the best 4 midfielders played for Geelong
  • 3 of the best 11 midfielders played for Adelaide
  • 2 of the best 8 played for Collingwood
2 of the best 7 played for West Coast
- 2 of the best 11 played for Bulldogs

And the top 11 played in 11 Grand Final wins between them.

And none of the best 11 played for the Hawthorn, Brisbane or Richmond teams who won 10 Grand Finals between them.

That is why it it is known as LOL Australian selection. :)
Click to expand...

AA is the best way to judge players that we have, at least from an awards point of view.

It does not descriminate against other positions so much. While in the Brownlow basically only midfielders win it, AA actually picks other positions. It is not decided by a 20 second discussion like a lot of match day awards, but rather discussed over weeks and possibly months with a lot of AFL personalities and hopefully experts.

Yes there are flaws in the AA, as even with this system the judges pick too many midfielders, often shoehorning them into the forward line or defence, but overall the All Australian is the best award we have for judging how good players are.

For instance, would you disagree that much with the AA's assessment of the best key forwards, ruckmen and key defenders?

Key Forwards
8 – Lance Franklin | 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018
5 - Tom Hawkins | 2012, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022
5 - Nick Riewoldt | 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014
4 - Barry Hall | 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010
4 - Warren Tredrea | 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

Key Defenders
6 - Matthew Scarlett | 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
5 - Alex Rance | 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
4 - Jeremy McGovern | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
4 - Darren Glass | 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012

Ruckmen
6 - Dean Cox | 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012
6 - Max Gawn | 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022
4 - Aaron Sandilands | 2008, 2009, 2010, 2014

To me that feels like a fairly representative list, not perfect, but pretty good.
 

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H00t said:
You want to say someone else is arguing just for the sake of it?

It’s not about the awards but at the level he played at. That year he was starting to touch the levels that GAJ, Matthews and GAS reached. Then he came nowhere near it for the rest of his career where those guys did it for many years.
Click to expand...

Nobody has had a more highly decorated season. So you can pick out guys who kicked loads of goals or whatever else. None of them have been the best player in the home and away season then buttered up with clearly best in the finals series including BOG in the Grand Final. The only player I have found in history to have done anything even remotely similar is Syd Coventry, the Collingwood ruckman and skipper who won a Brownlow with 7 votes from 18 games - only the player deemed BOG received a single vote at that time. Martin was BOG in 11 of 22 games in 2017 according to the Brownlow Medal voting. Martin also had the backup of record coaches votes and the highest player rating in the competition in 2017 to further confirm the validity of his dominant season. Coventry was then said to be BOG in the 1927 Grand Final, but of course we don't have any footage or meaningful stats to confirm that, thought he reports seem credible to me. Martin of course had a finals series for the ages, winning the Ayres Medal with 25 of a possible 30 Coaches votes and winning the Norm Smith Medal for BOG in the Grand Final.

The only way you are deriving anyone playing a better season than that is if you rate things like huge goal hauls against weak opposition in meaningless home and away matches as more important than destroying 3 finals in succession to lead your club to a 37 year drought breaking flag.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Nobody has had a more highly decorated season. So you can pick out guys who kicked loads of goals or whatever else. None of them have been the best player in the home and away season then buttered up with clearly best in the finals series including BOG in the Grand Final. The only player I have found in history to have done anything even remotely similar is Syd Coventry, the Collingwood ruckman and skipper who won a Brownlow with 7 votes from 18 games - only the player deemed BOG received a single vote at that time. Martin was BOG in 11 of 22 games in 2017 according to the Brownlow Medal voting. Martin also had the backup of record coaches votes and the highest player rating in the competition in 2017 to further confirm the validity of his dominant season. Coventry was then said to be BOG in the 1927 Grand Final, but of course we don't have any footage or meaningful stats to confirm that, thought he reports seem credible to me. Martin of course had a finals series for the ages, winning the Ayres Medal with 25 of a possible 30 Coaches votes and winning the Norm Smith Medal for BOG in the Grand Final.

The only way you are deriving anyone playing a better season than that is if you rate things like huge goal hauls against weak opposition in meaningless home and away matches as more important than destroying 3 finals in succession to lead your club to a 37 year drought breaking flag.
Click to expand...

At the time even Richmond supporters did not think Martin should have received the Norm Smith in 2017.
 
Captain_Bender said:
That Collingwood side had mediocre defenders, mediocre forwards, and outside two absolute stars in Swan and Pendlebury a mediocre midfield, no it wouldn't
Click to expand...

Who gives a f***. Aside from us, no one managed to beat them in 2011. I thought the whole Richmond mantra was based around how the team plays, not the amount of stars in the uniform

I thought their all Australian centre half forward would have been considered elite, at the very least
 
PhatBoy said:
Who gives a f***. Aside from us, no one managed to beat them in 2011. I thought the whole Richmond mantra was based around how the team plays, not the amount of stars in the uniform

I thought their all Australian centre half forward would have been considered elite, at the very least
Click to expand...
Cloke was only good in one of those years and dropped off pretty quick afterwards
 
RUNVS said:
AA is the best way to judge players that we have, at least from an awards point of view.

It does not descriminate against other positions so much. While in the Brownlow basically only midfielders win it, AA actually picks other positions. It is not decided by a 20 second discussion like a lot of match day awards, but rather discussed over weeks and possibly months with a lot of AFL personalities and hopefully experts.

Yes there are flaws in the AA, as even with this system the judges pick too many midfielders, often shoehorning them into the forward line or defence, but overall the All Australian is the best award we have for judging how good players are.

For instance, would you disagree that much with the AA's assessment of the best key forwards, ruckmen and key defenders?

Key Forwards
8 – Lance Franklin | 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018
5 - Tom Hawkins | 2012, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022
5 - Nick Riewoldt | 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014
4 - Barry Hall | 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010
4 - Warren Tredrea | 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

Key Defenders
6 - Matthew Scarlett | 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
5 - Alex Rance | 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
4 - Jeremy McGovern | 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
4 - Darren Glass | 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012

Ruckmen
6 - Dean Cox | 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012
6 - Max Gawn | 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022
4 - Aaron Sandilands | 2008, 2009, 2010, 2014

To me that feels like a fairly representative list, not perfect, but pretty good.
Click to expand...

It all comes down to your opinion of the players who have been selected most in the AA teams.

To be honest, I wasn't following AFL too closely in the seasons from 2001-2009 or so. So players like Hall, Tredrea, Nick Riewoldt, Scarlett Glass etc I couldn't authoritatively say how they stack up.

Hawkins is not so clearly better than J Riewoldt or Josh Kennedy as a key forward to warrant him being so far ahead of them in AA selections imo.

Rance and McGovern seems fair enough from those key defenders I could comment on. Stewart's 5 x AA as a hybrid defender is seriously not reflective of his football versus others playing similar roles.

I believe Naitanui is the best ruckman I have seen this century, comfortably. But others think he is massively over-rated due to low possession counts.

Overall though this is not a highly credible award for mine. You have "personalities" as you put it selecting the team. They don't watch every minute of every match. And what they do watch they are mainly watching on screens, once. They might study what stats are available then make their arguments. I think these days about half the panel has never played AFL football. There doesn't seem to be any clear criteria. Some players miss 4-5 games and players with lesser average performance get selected over them, others miss 4-5 and get selected when their case seems marginal in any event.

Then you get a player with much better statistical performance in one season misses selection where another player with far inferior statistical performance in another season gets picked.

You can probably say with confidence if you get picked in the AA team you have had a strong season. But there is no way you can say with a straight face it is the best way to judge players that we have. It is just a group of people who work in AFL administration and some ex-players who work in the media going by what could only be fairly loose impressions of which players have played best over the home and away season. Which is the other issue. Deeds in the most important games, the finals, are never considered.
 
Captain_Bender said:
Cloke was only good in one of those years and dropped off pretty quick afterwards
Click to expand...

Oh well in that case we can’t take anything he did in 2010-11 seriously then can we. Case closed. He was dogshit and Collingwood wouldn’t have a chance

And he really dropped off very quick with his 127 goals across two seasons immediately following 2011.
 
Last edited:
Martin’s H&A consistency is questioned by many. Danger has 8 x AA guernseys so a H&A Goliath.

I’ve previously removed Martin’s 4 x AA years, and in the other 10 x seasons of his career (199 games) he averages 23.47 disposals and 1.15 goals. I’ve now taken Danger’s best 4 x seasons off his stats, and in his remaining 12 x seasons (231 games), he averages 21.73 disposals and 0.88 goals.

So why would anyone query Martin’s on-going consistent excellence but revel in Dangers, when once we remove their ‘peak’ 4 x seasons Martin’s record is head and shoulders superior to Danger?

It doesn’t match the narrative everyone has of Dusty being elite for a short time and Danger being elite for a lot longer thanks to his 8 x AA.

In the last 9 x years, 7 x players have averaged Martin’s 23+ and 1.1+ in a single season.

In 2023 alone, 9 x players averaged 21+ and 0.8+. In 2019 14 players did it.

So for some reason the narrative is that outside Dusty’s handful of elite seasons he wasn’t that great. But the facts shows that when removing Dusty’s best 4 x seasons, and removing Danger’s best 4 seasons, Martin has been a vastly superior player after removing their ‘peak’ years.

Disposals: 23.47 v 21.73
Goals: 1.15 v 0.88

It’s not even close.


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Meteoric Rise said:
Nobody has had a more highly decorated season. So you can pick out guys who kicked loads of goals or whatever else. None of them have been the best player in the home and away season then buttered up with clearly best in the finals series including BOG in the Grand Final. The only player I have found in history to have done anything even remotely similar is Syd Coventry, the Collingwood ruckman and skipper who won a Brownlow with 7 votes from 18 games - only the player deemed BOG received a single vote at that time. Martin was BOG in 11 of 22 games in 2017 according to the Brownlow Medal voting. Martin also had the backup of record coaches votes and the highest player rating in the competition in 2017 to further confirm the validity of his dominant season. Coventry was then said to be BOG in the 1927 Grand Final, but of course we don't have any footage or meaningful stats to confirm that, thought he reports seem credible to me. Martin of course had a finals series for the ages, winning the Ayres Medal with 25 of a possible 30 Coaches votes and winning the Norm Smith Medal for BOG in the Grand Final.

The only way you are deriving anyone playing a better season than that is if you rate things like huge goal hauls against weak opposition in meaningless home and away matches as more important than destroying 3 finals in succession to lead your club to a 37 year drought breaking flag.
Click to expand...
The awards don’t matter. They look nice, but ultimately mean nothing. How well the player played matters.

It’s the “most decorated” year. It’s not the best year. Leigh Matthews has that with his 1977 year. Martin’s 2017 is level with Matthews 1975, 1976, 1978, 1982, 1983 and 1984 years.

That’s 7 years equal with or better than Martin’s 2017. That’s why one year is no big deal. The very best do it repeatedly.
 
Noidnadroj said:
Martin’s H&A consistency is questioned by many. Danger has 8 x AA guernseys so a H&A Goliath.

I’ve previously removed Martin’s 4 x AA years, and in the other 10 x seasons of his career (199 games) he averages 23.47 disposals and 1.15 goals. I’ve now taken Danger’s best 4 x seasons off his stats, and in his remaining 12 x seasons (231 games), he averages 21.73 disposals and 0.88 goals.

So why would anyone query Martin’s on-going consistent excellence but revel in Dangers, when once we remove their ‘peak’ 4 x seasons Martin’s record is head and shoulders superior to Danger?

It doesn’t match the narrative everyone has of Dusty being elite for a short time and Danger being elite for a lot longer thanks to his 8 x AA.

In the last 9 x years, 7 x players have averaged Martin’s 23+ and 1.1+ in a single season.

In 2023 alone, 9 x players averaged 21+ and 0.8+. In 2019 14 players did it.

So for some reason the narrative is that outside Dusty’s handful of elite seasons he wasn’t that great. But the facts shows that when removing Dusty’s best 4 x seasons, and removing Danger’s best 4 seasons, Martin has been a vastly superior player after removing their ‘peak’ years.

Disposals: 23.47 v 21.73
Goals: 1.15 v 0.88

It’s not even close.


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Click to expand...
Neither is in any GOAT discussions. So not really sure it matters.
 

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Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

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