Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

[Meteoric Rise]

You go on about performing in losses and performing in weak teams, you do realise Ablett was AA in teams that finished 17th (of 17), 17th, 14th and 12th? He was also AA in teams that finished 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 1st. He won a Brownlow in a premiership year, and a year where his team finished 14th. He won MVPs at the top and at the bottom.

In two consecutive years where the GC won only 6 of 44 games, he was AA twice and league MVP once, finishing 3rd in the other season, and finished 5th and 3rd in the Coaches Votes despite playing less games than all of those above him bar one.

So if you’re hinting at Ablett only performing in wins or good teams, you’re barking up the wrong
He performed in multiple years at an elite level in both great teams and terrible teams. Martin’s best years have been more concentrated around Richmond’s peak.

Lol 2023 is a great year from Martin, though short of his incredible best. His second season 2011 was a great year. 2016 he finished 3rd Brownlow and Coach votes.

But you are right Ablett performed extremely well in his peak years at Suns in a weak team. Martin in his peak years didn't get the privilege of playing in a weak team. So he had to settle for a record vote Brownlow and Coach vote season, 3 Norm Smiths, 3 Ayres Medals, 3 flags inter alia.

 

[Noidnadroj]

You go on about performing in losses and performing in weak teams, you do realise Ablett was AA in teams that finished 17th (of 17), 17th, 14th and 12th? He was also AA in teams that finished 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 1st. He won a Brownlow in a premiership year, and a year where his team finished 14th. He won MVPs at the top and at the bottom.

In two consecutive years where the GC won only 6 of 44 games, he was AA twice and league MVP once, finishing 3rd in the other season, and finished 5th and 3rd in the Coaches Votes despite playing less games than all of those above him bar one.

So if you’re hinting at Ablett only performing in wins or good teams, you’re barking up the wrong
He performed in multiple years at an elite level in both great teams and terrible teams. Martin’s best years have been more concentrated around Richmond’s peak.

Sorry, but it’s not about that at all. It’s purely comparing GAJ’s 2019 season with Martin’s 2023 season. About halfway through the season some Catter fans were very ‘noisy’ about how Martin in 2023 playing forward couldn’t hold a candle to Gazza doing the same in 2019. But then Martin came home like a steam train to eclipse him.

I’ve got no qualms about GAJ being a star across most his career in poor teams. This is purely 2019 v 2023 comparison.


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[Felis catus nigrans]

Sorry… the relevance is that earlier in the thread about halfway through the season Martin’s 2023 was being compared unfavourably to Ablett’s season of 2019. So it was worth revisiting with a full season’s data. And I wouldn’t argue the fixture … Martin did it in a team 13th, GAJ was in the top of the ladder team.


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GAJ did it when there were other decent (arguably better) options for his teammates and the fixture was harder,

 

[blaisee]

You go on about performing in losses and performing in weak teams, you do realise Ablett was AA in teams that finished 17th (of 17), 17th, 14th and 12th? He was also AA in teams that finished 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 1st. He won a Brownlow in a premiership year, and a year where his team finished 14th. He won MVPs at the top and at the bottom.

In two consecutive years where the GC won only 6 of 44 games, he was AA twice and league MVP once, finishing 3rd in the other season, and finished 5th and 3rd in the Coaches Votes despite playing less games than all of those above him bar one.

So if you’re hinting at Ablett only performing in wins or good teams, you’re barking up the wrong
He performed in multiple years at an elite level in both great teams and terrible teams. Martin’s best years have been more concentrated around Richmond’s peak.

The objective of playing is to win

And. Gaj has less a lower % of wins in home and away, finals and grand finals when compared to dusty

For someone so good his winning % is inferior to dusty in normal home and aaay games , finals and grand finals

Individually he also has less brownlow votes per game than dusty , less Gary ayres medal votes per final and of course less norm smith medal votes per grand final

So inferior in every single team and individual metric that matters, and also inferior in his performance at the same age .

That’s why gaj however great you think he is , is a couple of rungs lower than Dustin Martin who is the goat .

 

[blaisee]

Sorry, but it’s not about that at all. It’s purely comparing GAJ’s 2019 season with Martin’s 2023 season. About halfway through the season some Catter fans were very ‘noisy’ about how Martin in 2023 playing forward couldn’t hold a candle to Gazza doing the same in 2019. But then Martin came home like a steam train to eclipse him.

I’ve got no qualms about GAJ being a star across most his career in poor teams. This is purely 2019 v 2023 comparison.


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Its completely arbitrary to compare dusty and gaj in those years , they weren’t the same age , the real comparison is between dusty and gaj at the same age the age dusty was this year gaj had at the same age . And to compare totals only , because totals matter and you don’t get a reward for missing games

On this metric at the same age , dusty is twice the player gaj was at the same age .

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Its completely arbitrary to compare dusty and gaj in those years , they weren’t the same age , the real comparison is between dusty and gaj at the same age the age dusty was this year gaj had at the same age . And to compare totals only , because totals matter and you don’t get a reward for missing games

On this metric at the same age , dusty is twice the player gaj was at the same age .

Still only 4 AAs for Dusty lol, only half as many as Ablett jnr, and not likely to get another, you're absolutely lolling comparing the two

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I thought Dusty had another stellar GOAT worthy season... Missed AA.
Derp.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

How are they going to spin this disaster

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

All Australian Resume is looking pretty thin.

So to answer the OP - NO

 

[Corn Cobbers]

All Australian Resume is looking pretty thin.

So to answer the OP - NO

I'm trying to find a list of players who have won 4 AAs, no one has bothered putting one together

 

[Danw0w]

All Australian Resume is looking pretty thin.

So to answer the OP - NO

Lynch missed last year. Tells you all you need to know about the value of AA..

 

[TheCatStevensExperience]

I seem to have missed him in the AA team this year

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Lynch missed last year.

Not wrong

 

[Danw0w]

Not wrong
View attachment 1790587

He should've gone for a drop punt like Dom Sheed

 

[Corn Cobbers]

That's AA quality, no Richmond

 

[STPer18]

Weird, I remember reading all year Dustie was back to his best, but even that wasn't enough to make the AA team. I guess being in the top 44 players is a good effort but that's not GOAT standard I fear.

 

[nut]

The Kmart AA team

 

[STPer18]

The Kmart AA team

Is that the one Dustie was named in?

 

[nut]

Is that the one Dustie was named in?

No the one voted by Kane cornes

 

[HarryBeef]

Tom Stewart > Dusty

 

[PhatBoy]

The Kmart AA team

If you post this in enough threads, he will be selected.

That’s what I heard, that’s what I heard.

 

[blaisee]

Still only 4 AAs for Dusty lol, only half as many as Ablett jnr, and not likely to get another, you're absolutely lolling comparing the two

yep Tom Stewart has 5 so he must be better

 

[Corn Cobbers]

yep Tom Stewart has 5 so he must be better

Correct, he's had a more consistent career

See you're getting smarter

 

[Elixuh]

I would have said yes he is the GOAT if he had have gotten just one more AA. But alas it wasn't to be.

 

[blaisee]

Correct, he's had a more consistent career

See you're getting smarter

without a doubt, Tom Stewart has to be 20% better than Dusty, I mean he has 20% more AA jumpers, so it is what it is

Same as Tom Hawkins he has 20% more as well 5 vs 4

So Tom Hawkins and Tom Stewart are clearly better than Dusty, 20% better .